caikgoch
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
So you are a self confessed keyboard warrior.
I am very scared of the vegan movement, they will try to take our right away to have companion animals.
- Thread starter Coolboyman
- Start date
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BlueBeard
Guest
And he's back. With more unsolicited advice. Here again to polish his halo.
Welcome back!
Welcome back!
Hahaha, you are such an idiot! When did I ever say half of what you accused me of.And you think I give a shit about your opinion on this matter why? You're still a comedic clown to me with no valid arguments or opinions nor do you have anything meaningful to contribute to the forum. I mean go ahead and keep defending yourself off topic here if you want, I'm sure everyone could use a good laugh
Btw I know exactly what you were referring to. If you can get through life without the help of others to find a personal identity that separates you from everyone else then good on ya, but to expect others to handle life exactly like you do and consider them lesser when they don't is what I take issue with. Not everyone is cut from the same cloth, not everyone handles existential journey's the same yet apparently you seem to think that everyone should. Would be great if it were that simple, but because humans are such complex creatures with unique upbringings and approaches to life what your suggesting is a impossible hope.
Your argument simply condensed is "Everyone is bad who doesn't agree with me" which is why I attributed you to the same as @Aluzky and @Wolfia , different arguments, same line of stupidity.
You are right thou, in that not everyone can find their way throu life..sheep always follow the heard to slaughter.
thats what's wrong with society, ppl like you have no common sence, no logic.
You say I have no points.
If you don't see the logic on how you are the only person that can tell you who you are you are dumber than the dirt I move on a daily basis. If it wernt for technology most ppl like you would not survive.
Everyone that dosent agree with me is bad?
What are you 12?
Keep going! You are amusing me!
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Funny how it takes you 3 paragraphs.
If you can't say it simple, that means you don't understand what you are saying.
Wich is obvious..you can't see reason or logic.
You would rather have ppl ask others on this site: who am I, am I this or am I that.
When the only person that can tell you who you are is yourself.
Or your shrink you came out to cause you wanted acceptance, cause you couldn't accept yourself the way you are.
Yea Zooville: listen to a guy that needs more attention than a teenage girl, and has to come out to a shrink for their acceptance to be able to accept themselves.
So laughable
If you can't say it simple, that means you don't understand what you are saying.
Wich is obvious..you can't see reason or logic.
You would rather have ppl ask others on this site: who am I, am I this or am I that.
When the only person that can tell you who you are is yourself.
Or your shrink you came out to cause you wanted acceptance, cause you couldn't accept yourself the way you are.
Yea Zooville: listen to a guy that needs more attention than a teenage girl, and has to come out to a shrink for their acceptance to be able to accept themselves.
So laughable
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FeralLovin'
Citizen of Zooville
Because calling people murderers and speciesist is polite and very gentleman of you. If you're going to start hurling shit around, don't be all surprised pikachu meme when it gets thrown back in your direction.
You earn it and the way you and the other 2 vegan extremists behave, don't deserve it.
Thats my point! You try to sound like you have Einstein IQ.
When the simplest solutions are usually the correct ones.
Like you coming out to a shrink for acceptance cause you can't accept yourself or know who you are.
If you knew who you are you wouldn't need acceptance from a stranger, or think that asking others on a forum is going to give you clarity on who you are.
Haha.. Why don't you make a few enemies.
And I'm the troll.
You are beneath me, and 90% of humans
And I'm the troll.
You are beneath me, and 90% of humans
T
Tailo
Guest
I think that if we would meet up in person, we all would get along quite fine with each other. It's much more difficult online where we are left handicapped without body language, facial expressions and the tones of our voices.
What would we have for dinner, though?
What would we have for dinner, though?
I would get a better conversation with them than I would with you. So I have no complaints about that
Sorry buddy but you don't have the wit to eat at my table
Yep cause children don't know how to hate and are genuine
Give up dude.. You ain't gonna get me.
You don't have the wit
Give up dude.. You ain't gonna get me.
You don't have the wit
Plover
Tourist
A court ruling in the UK recently gives vegans the same status as a religious movement.
T
Tailo
Guest
Oh, that's interesting. I looked it up and just for precision, the court ruled that it is a philosophical belief system that gets the same protection like religious beliefs, so you may not be discriminated for being an ethical vegan similarly to how you may not be discriminated for being Christian.
Ethical veganism is philosophical belief, tribunal rules
Ethical vegan Jordi Casamitjana is "extremely happy" with a tribunal's ruling his belief is protected in law.
www.bbc.com
Plover
Tourist
But effectively calls it a religion protected by lawOh, that's interesting. I looked it up and just for precision, the court ruled that it is a philosophical belief system that gets the same protection like religious beliefs, so you may not be discriminated against for being an ethical vegan similarly to how you may not be discriminated against for being Christian.
Ethical veganism is philosophical belief, tribunal rules
Ethical vegan Jordi Casamitjana is "extremely happy" with a tribunal's ruling his belief is protected in law.
T
Tailo
Guest
I'm not sure what your message is? Do you mean to say that veganism would be a religion?
Plover
Tourist
No not at all in my opinion, it's lifestyle choice but the snowflake generation is running rampant.
FeralLovin'
Citizen of Zooville
I'd backup my accusations with proof, but all of your comments are gone so I can't. If you didn't say these things, then I apologize. You are certainly a higher caliber person compared to the other 2 nimrods.
arcticwolf69
Citizen of Zooville
WELL
For those of us who have watched this ... discussion ...
It seems that the answer to the question posed in this topic ... i-am-very-scared-of-the-vegan-movement-they-will-try-to-take-our-right-away-to-have-companion-animals
NOPE
Zoo vegans appear to be just a side branch PETA, with similar fanatical ideals of morality.
Except ... Zoo vegans .. leave out the removal of companion animals since they wish to continue their love of their chosen companion animals.
The ones here seem to mostly be interested in preaching their fanatical high morality to simply keep their own egos inflated about how much more intelligent they are then the rest of us, since we are not willing to accept that their high morality beliefs are the only true ideal beliefs.
It also appears that the majority of them have no plans, or ideas of doing anything more then simply preaching these ideals.
None of the vegans in this thread have said a single thing to make me change my moral beliefs on eating meat, i think most of us carnivores know that not all all animal husbandry practices in the meat trade are ethical, and many of us simply go with those we feel are in fact more ethical choices.
I admit to skimming some of the extremely long winded BS in some of the posts.
Did any vegans ever actually, directly answer the topic question?
I only remember long winded statements of the morality of eating meat. PAGES of it. Very little actual discussion of the topic question.
NO!!!!! Vegans will not in our lifetimes get rid of our animal companions.
The same way and for the same reasons PETA will likely never eliminate animal companions and both will NOT even eliminate farm animals in our lifetimes.
It seems like both truly support their extreme moral beliefs, in many cases to extremes. But neither do much to make the majority change theirs. They simply wish to grandstand and gain attention to make themselves feel more high and mighty, morally then the rest of us, is how they seem.
For those of us who have watched this ... discussion ...
It seems that the answer to the question posed in this topic ... i-am-very-scared-of-the-vegan-movement-they-will-try-to-take-our-right-away-to-have-companion-animals
NOPE
Zoo vegans appear to be just a side branch PETA, with similar fanatical ideals of morality.
Except ... Zoo vegans .. leave out the removal of companion animals since they wish to continue their love of their chosen companion animals.
The ones here seem to mostly be interested in preaching their fanatical high morality to simply keep their own egos inflated about how much more intelligent they are then the rest of us, since we are not willing to accept that their high morality beliefs are the only true ideal beliefs.
It also appears that the majority of them have no plans, or ideas of doing anything more then simply preaching these ideals.
None of the vegans in this thread have said a single thing to make me change my moral beliefs on eating meat, i think most of us carnivores know that not all all animal husbandry practices in the meat trade are ethical, and many of us simply go with those we feel are in fact more ethical choices.
I admit to skimming some of the extremely long winded BS in some of the posts.
Did any vegans ever actually, directly answer the topic question?
I only remember long winded statements of the morality of eating meat. PAGES of it. Very little actual discussion of the topic question.
NO!!!!! Vegans will not in our lifetimes get rid of our animal companions.
The same way and for the same reasons PETA will likely never eliminate animal companions and both will NOT even eliminate farm animals in our lifetimes.
It seems like both truly support their extreme moral beliefs, in many cases to extremes. But neither do much to make the majority change theirs. They simply wish to grandstand and gain attention to make themselves feel more high and mighty, morally then the rest of us, is how they seem.
Movie Guy Voice: "In a world where humanity is no longer allowed to have pets..."
But replace the Pokemon with real animals who have their own jobs, cars, apartments, etc. And instead of being 'captured' with Pokeballs, they enter mutually beneficial contracts with humans that can be used to sue if there's ever a breach. Like a bowl of food being inadequately supplied or in this community's case, sexual needs not being met.
But replace the Pokemon with real animals who have their own jobs, cars, apartments, etc. And instead of being 'captured' with Pokeballs, they enter mutually beneficial contracts with humans that can be used to sue if there's ever a breach. Like a bowl of food being inadequately supplied or in this community's case, sexual needs not being met.
arcticwolf69
Citizen of Zooville
I would hope that everyone who thinks of themselves as zoo or even just an animal lover agrees with this. Unfortunately, it has always been a battle. Even 40yrs ago as a child there was a humane society in the very rural small town i grew up in, that my parents did volunteer work for. Overpopulation and unwanted pets was a serious problem even then. Unfortunately the majority of the population seems to have little concept of an animals actual value as more then just actual value or usefulness. The problem has only multiplied at the same rate as the human population it seems, not gotten better. With so many no longer seeming to have the slightest respect or responsibility for their own actions. If they do not take responsibilty for their own actions, why would they for a pet. For many pets are just property, to use how you will and get rid of if you no longer wish to be bothered with them.
NO, it is not.
In many ways it is a part of human nature to get defensive when one feels attacked, and it riles you up to the point of wishing to attack back in defense ... often, when their is no true reason to attack back. The main reason people often have a hard time simply calmly discussing a volitile topic such as a lot of this thread turned into, is not as much about the differences of opinion, but the serious fanaticals refusal to accept that their can be no other opinion or different set of moral beliefs. On both sides. The belief that everyone must except their moral opinion, with no exceptions.
Even when some of their points are valid reasons for many, they can not except that not everyone can accept every morality issue they see. Grey areas in morality will always exist in different ways for all of us.
Some seem like they only wish to sledgehammer their moral beliefs on everyone. It can never happen with everyone. Continuing to sledgehammer
how right you are, and everyone MUST conform to your beliefs, because your morality is the only way anyone should feel, does not make it happen, no matter how much they truly believe there can be no other thought on it.
I think you would find a majority here feel this way as well.
The flaming issues that develop are not because of this.
The anger that develops on such topics are mostly the ways some wish to push this. Claiming people are murders for eating meat, and using animal products will only cause every person doing this to get pissed off. People do not feel like murders when they have not pulled the trigger personally.
Many have no real clue about the truth of where the nice pretty package of meat came from. Unfortunately, many never will.
Bingo!!! That is likely the only way to change peoples minds on how much meat and other animal products we buy, that doesn't piss folks off. Very few are going to stop eating meat enirely or stop using animal products overnight. Small steps get you where you wish to go.
Education about the truth of factory farms, slaughterhouses and such. The more they understand the more they swing to somewhat better alternatives.
Organic, and pasture raised, humanely slaughtered animals that at least have the appearance of being a better life for the animals, is slowly becoming bigger and bigger. Alternative choices, are at least a step in a better direction.
Boycott a word wide massive, corporate profit making enterprise is likely to do little.
Change consumer buying habbits forces the giant corporations to change some of their old habits.
People who scream about meat eaters and animal product users being murderers, speciesists, sadists, and such does nothing but piss people off, and make them attack you back.
I couldn't agree more. However, SkawdtDawg has been the most respectful to others and tried to promote his views without degrading everyone. It's unfortunate that his methods of debate are not used by certain other members that resort to the tactics mentioned in the quote above.
SigmaTheZeta
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
@SkawdtDawg did get me interested in vegan alternatives, to his credit, and I think that there are many interesting foods that I would otherwise not have tried. I think that veganism is really a perfectly sustainable dietary option, and I think that it is time for me to stop regarding it as something insurmountable or byzantine to ever do. Besides, I am loving the Impossible Burgers, and I have been getting a lot more bivalve mollusks in my diet. As long as vegans can regard a bivalve mollusk as a vegetable, then this is really not all that complicated or any particular sacrifice to do.
I think that the really telling argument is that it is a myth that giving up products that are derived from animals is some sort of untenable sacrifice that takes almost every option that tastes even slightly good off the menu because it is not true at all. There are many great vegetarian options out there that actually taste fantastic, and if you are not ready to give up meat, then just try them, anyway. You don't have to be a vegetarian to enjoy great vegetarian food: it is not going to taste bad or poison you just because you also eat meat.
The way I did the vegetarian/reducitarian concept was that, rather than cutting meat and dairy out, I cut great vegetarian and pescetarian options in. I kept on trying new things, and plant-based foods is really an entire world of things to try that I have never tried before. It is not a super-limited or ultra-expensive selection. It is stuff that is affordable and really fun.
It also helps me to think of crustaceans and mollusks as vegetables. I will have to give my apologies to anyone that is super-duper-ultra-vegan if they consider the welfare of a shrimp to be an animal rights concern, but it is not even slightly: they are a collection ganglia. I think that fish tastes fine, too, and I might switch my cat over to pescetarian cat food. You can call me a tetrapodal supremacist if you want to. Shrimps and lobsters and oysters, I can do that. I had some mussels the other night, and they were decadent. I really prefer bivalve mollusks and crustaceans, honestly. Fish tastes a little fishy to me; I can do sockeye if I wash it in the sink for several minutes, though. I have an obsession with mussels, lately.
However, I have also been experimenting with jack fruit, seasoned tofu, and other really fun stuff that I had never actually gone out of my way to try before, and the truth is that I had gotten so wedded to the idea that meat had to be in a meal to make it taste good, I had been neglecting the majority of the damn supermarket. There were aisles that I had not even looked in. It is really pretty damn good.
But once again, it was a "cutting in" strategy that really worked for me, rather than a "cutting out" strategy.
I think that the really telling argument is that it is a myth that giving up products that are derived from animals is some sort of untenable sacrifice that takes almost every option that tastes even slightly good off the menu because it is not true at all. There are many great vegetarian options out there that actually taste fantastic, and if you are not ready to give up meat, then just try them, anyway. You don't have to be a vegetarian to enjoy great vegetarian food: it is not going to taste bad or poison you just because you also eat meat.
The way I did the vegetarian/reducitarian concept was that, rather than cutting meat and dairy out, I cut great vegetarian and pescetarian options in. I kept on trying new things, and plant-based foods is really an entire world of things to try that I have never tried before. It is not a super-limited or ultra-expensive selection. It is stuff that is affordable and really fun.
It also helps me to think of crustaceans and mollusks as vegetables. I will have to give my apologies to anyone that is super-duper-ultra-vegan if they consider the welfare of a shrimp to be an animal rights concern, but it is not even slightly: they are a collection ganglia. I think that fish tastes fine, too, and I might switch my cat over to pescetarian cat food. You can call me a tetrapodal supremacist if you want to. Shrimps and lobsters and oysters, I can do that. I had some mussels the other night, and they were decadent. I really prefer bivalve mollusks and crustaceans, honestly. Fish tastes a little fishy to me; I can do sockeye if I wash it in the sink for several minutes, though. I have an obsession with mussels, lately.
However, I have also been experimenting with jack fruit, seasoned tofu, and other really fun stuff that I had never actually gone out of my way to try before, and the truth is that I had gotten so wedded to the idea that meat had to be in a meal to make it taste good, I had been neglecting the majority of the damn supermarket. There were aisles that I had not even looked in. It is really pretty damn good.
But once again, it was a "cutting in" strategy that really worked for me, rather than a "cutting out" strategy.
I disagree. The Vegans on this forum are most likely part of "Zeta" a German based pro zoo group. Seems the "vegans" that post on this forum are also associated with them and are promoting their views. Tying zoo interests with veganism is something they do a lot.
T
Tailo
Guest
You totally made this up. None of the vegans who participated actively in this discussion even come from Germany.
SigmaTheZeta
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Note, @Tailo is not really a vegan, but I think that he is kind of like me, a reducitarian-minded westerner that shares many of the concerns of vegans about unethical agricultural practices but does not necessarily condemn a "perfect world scenario" of ethical care and rearing of livestock plus humane methods of slaughter. Considering that we could not realistically guarantee that every animal really gets treated with dignity, then the vegans are kind of right about the fact that that scenario is really highly unlikely in industrialized agriculture where the animals in question are regarded as absolutely fungible, and agricultural workers are probably treated even worse than the animals, meaning that some of the animals probably have to take the heat from the frustrated workers.
Pardon me if I am putting too many words in your mouth, @Tailo, but after my conversation with @SkawdtDawg, that is where I am on it, and I have decided that it is time to start opting in vegetarian foods and stop pretending that we are really living in an idyllic and wholesome Neolithic society where all the little sheep are cared for by a tenderhearted shepherd, never so much as yelled at, and slaughtered based on a centuries old ritualized tradition. I could swallow that. That would taste alright on my fork. The industrial slaughterhouses are mechanized assembly line infernos by human standards, and that is probably the best and most comfortable part of the lives of these animals. Pretending that that situation is not really terrifying for them constitutes a level of dementalization that I really cannot altogether swallow.
I am not declaring myself to be vegan just because I am not willing to turn a blind eye to the shortcomings of our system of industrial agriculture. We have gone astray from the beliefs of our primitive ancestors that started the practice of animal husbandry. We have thrown those beliefs under the bus in the name of profit motive. I don't see meat as inherently evil, but the things we are doing are really not okay. It doesn't make me a vegan to acknowledge that.
Maybe if we forced the commercial agribusiness industry to adopt morally sane standards, then we would stop wasting time on getting good lab meat on the shelves and actually start giving the businesses that specialize in it the same subsidies as any agribusiness. Once we have developed a good lab meat and it is getting appropriate subsidies and the costs of production are coming down rather than going up, then we will not have to continue having this discussion anymore.
Pardon me if I am putting too many words in your mouth, @Tailo, but after my conversation with @SkawdtDawg, that is where I am on it, and I have decided that it is time to start opting in vegetarian foods and stop pretending that we are really living in an idyllic and wholesome Neolithic society where all the little sheep are cared for by a tenderhearted shepherd, never so much as yelled at, and slaughtered based on a centuries old ritualized tradition. I could swallow that. That would taste alright on my fork. The industrial slaughterhouses are mechanized assembly line infernos by human standards, and that is probably the best and most comfortable part of the lives of these animals. Pretending that that situation is not really terrifying for them constitutes a level of dementalization that I really cannot altogether swallow.
I am not declaring myself to be vegan just because I am not willing to turn a blind eye to the shortcomings of our system of industrial agriculture. We have gone astray from the beliefs of our primitive ancestors that started the practice of animal husbandry. We have thrown those beliefs under the bus in the name of profit motive. I don't see meat as inherently evil, but the things we are doing are really not okay. It doesn't make me a vegan to acknowledge that.
Maybe if we forced the commercial agribusiness industry to adopt morally sane standards, then we would stop wasting time on getting good lab meat on the shelves and actually start giving the businesses that specialize in it the same subsidies as any agribusiness. Once we have developed a good lab meat and it is getting appropriate subsidies and the costs of production are coming down rather than going up, then we will not have to continue having this discussion anymore.
My biggest question is how many vegans have seen deer STARVING because the population has exploded beyond what the area can sustain? How many deer are sick and disease ridden because we (as humans) have killed or chased off their " natural preditors" ( i used quotes because we are ALL part of the food chain). I have seen this, it is heart wrenching. So I have absolutely zero problem with human hunting, as long as the animal will be used for food. My opinion is and always be the world needs balance tipping the scales one way or another will bring disaster. I also have no problem with raising animals humanely and using them as a food source. I am an omnivore and proud of it.
Buster2020
BANNED
If you want the FACTS on nutrition
....the latest INDEPENDENT science....studies....and statistics.
Check out nutritionfacts.org.
Dr. MICHAEL GREGER presents it mostly in short video clips relating to the subject matter you put in the search window.
For some other great wisdom off Netflix.....check out these great documentaries...preferably watch them in this order.
1-FORKS OVER KNIVES
2-WHAT THE HEALTH
3-THE GAME CHANGERS
4-COWSPIRACY
5-FAT, SICK, NEARLY DEAD
I have been vegan since 1990......I can personally tell you the way I feel and look is light night and day!!
I was sick often growing up....dealt with asthma....psoriasis....colds....flus.
All gone within weeks!! I never get colds of flus!
I personally know a couple of people who beat cancer.....no chemo....no radiation!
Just by going raw vegan (which has the greatest impact!)
As for the Bible.....it was written by many different people....with different opinions who wrote books that were assembled together. There is plenty of pro vegan scripture in there....2 off the top of my head....Genesis of course and the book of Daniel. Add to that the many translations and editing....and you have what you have today.
Go on YouTube too! There are many great documentaries.....seminars...programs...interviews with doctors...scientists and nutrition experts that TRULY know their stuff!!
Use logic....our digestive system is EXACTLY that of the Great Apes....gorillas....orangutans....bonobos....chimpanzees.
The only ones who aren't 100% plant eater are chimps....of which only some of them eat small monkeys.....otherwise 98% plant eater.
If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask.
....the latest INDEPENDENT science....studies....and statistics.
Check out nutritionfacts.org.
Dr. MICHAEL GREGER presents it mostly in short video clips relating to the subject matter you put in the search window.
For some other great wisdom off Netflix.....check out these great documentaries...preferably watch them in this order.
1-FORKS OVER KNIVES
2-WHAT THE HEALTH
3-THE GAME CHANGERS
4-COWSPIRACY
5-FAT, SICK, NEARLY DEAD
I have been vegan since 1990......I can personally tell you the way I feel and look is light night and day!!
I was sick often growing up....dealt with asthma....psoriasis....colds....flus.
All gone within weeks!! I never get colds of flus!
I personally know a couple of people who beat cancer.....no chemo....no radiation!
Just by going raw vegan (which has the greatest impact!)
As for the Bible.....it was written by many different people....with different opinions who wrote books that were assembled together. There is plenty of pro vegan scripture in there....2 off the top of my head....Genesis of course and the book of Daniel. Add to that the many translations and editing....and you have what you have today.
Go on YouTube too! There are many great documentaries.....seminars...programs...interviews with doctors...scientists and nutrition experts that TRULY know their stuff!!
Use logic....our digestive system is EXACTLY that of the Great Apes....gorillas....orangutans....bonobos....chimpanzees.
The only ones who aren't 100% plant eater are chimps....of which only some of them eat small monkeys.....otherwise 98% plant eater.
If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask.
SociallyHawkward
Tourist
NutritionFacts.org - Bias and Credibility
CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE Sources in the Conspiracy-Pseudoscience category may publish unverifiable information that is not always supported by evidence.
mediabiasfactcheck.com
Death as a Foodborne Illness Curable by Veganism
Can you cure death through a vegan diet? Of course not. But some people claim you can.
sciencebasedmedicine.org
I'll leave these here, draw your own conclusions.