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I am very scared of the vegan movement, they will try to take our right away to have companion animals.

ZTHorse said:
Doubt it.

No native multi-generational population have ever been vegan. Ever.

The longest lived people are the sardinians and they literally eat fermented cheese killed from a baby goats stomach.

Animal products are human nutrition.
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Again....cherry picking. Sardinia is one of many BLUE ZONES....along with Okinawa and other locations.
The common denominator is that they eat PLENTY of fresh raw vegetables and are VERY active. Low stress....contentment....a sense of community.....the pursuit of happiness.
Body....mind.....soul....all of it MUST be attended to and respected.
As for your dead goat shit.....no.
 
Buster2020 said:
I personally know a couple of people who beat cancer.....no chemo....no radiation!
Just by going raw vegan (which has the greatest impact!)
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Did you know Steve Jobs tried something like that?
Did you know Steve Jobs died?

Use logic....our digestive system is EXACTLY that of the Great Apes....gorillas....orangutans....bonobos....chimpanzees.
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I'm sorry, using actual logic, you would actually need to prove this claim first. Can you prove our digestive system is exactly like all those primates combined?

I have been vegan since 1990......I can personally tell you the way I feel and look is light night and day!!
I was sick often growing up....dealt with asthma....psoriasis....colds....flus.
All gone within weeks!! I never get colds of flus!
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Ok, do you know how the scientific method works? This is a single anecdote from an uneducated observer. If you want to get any meaningful conclusion beyond a correlation, you will repeat this experiment a few hundred times at least and compare it with a control group that doesn't do the experiment. Even then, you could, if the results were positive, only draw the conclusion that something affects you positively somehow. And then you still haven't verified if it could be because of other vegan related behavior that could perhaps emerge from it.

But I digress, the study has been done already, here is the UK's NHS article on it. Here is the scientific paper in question I believe

Excerpt:
Conclusions:
Our study has shown that Austrian adults who consume a vegetarian diet are less healthy (in terms of cancer, allergies, and mental health disorders), have a lower quality of life, and also require more medical treatment. Therefore, a continued strong public health program for Austria is required in order to reduce the health risk due to nutritional factors. Moreover, our results emphasize the necessity of further studies in Austria, for a more in-depth analysis of the health effects of different dietary habits.
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Psoriasis? Sounds like allergies.
Mental health? Yeah, your posts do seem quite unhinged.

And not getting colds or flus? Nice myth, everyone gets them. You can't become immune to them because they mutate over time to novel ways your body doesn't have antibodies for.

Likely conclusion based on this all using FACTS and LOGIC? If you did in fact get less sick, you were either allergic to some component in your old diet, or your old diet was so piss poor that going full vegan actually forced you to eat more healthy than you did previously. Shame it didn't do anything for your mental health.
 
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Oily said:
Did you know Steve Jobs tried something like that?
Did you know Steve Jobs died?
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Veganism didn't kill Steve Jobs.....50% genetics....50% environmental influence (obviously including diet).
He was likely past the point of no return considering the years of abuse to his diet.
By the way.....even with a genetic disposition to a disease or condition....it can be avoided by a plant'based diet provided it's done sooner rather than later.....unlike Steve Jobs.
Too little too late.
 
Buster2020 said:
Veganism didn't kill Steve Jobs.....50% genetics....50% environmental influence (obviously including diet).
He was likely past the point of no return considering the years of abuse to his diet.
By the way.....even with a genetic disposition to a disease or condition....it can be avoided by a plant'based diet provided it's done sooner rather than later.....unlike Steve Jobs.
Too little too late.
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Didn't take you to respond so soon. I added more to my post, would be cool if you addressed that.
Also you just basically admitted that his vegan diet was very much of influence in his disposition to survive his pancreatic cancer.

I can safely say that it didn't increase it.

Despite his diagnosis, Jobs resisted his doctors' recommendations for medical intervention for nine months,[160] instead relying on alternative medicine to thwart the disease. According to Harvard researcher Ramzi Amri, his choice of alternative treatment "led to an unnecessarily early death". Other doctors agree that Jobs's diet was insufficient to address his disease. However, cancer researcher and alternative medicine critic David Gorski wrote that "it's impossible to know whether and by how much he might have decreased his chances of surviving his cancer through his flirtation with woo. My best guess was that Jobs probably only modestly decreased his chances of survival, if that."[161] Barrie R. Cassileth, the chief of Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center's integrative medicine department,[162] said, "Jobs's faith in alternative medicine likely cost him his life.... He had the only kind of pancreatic cancer that is treatable and curable.... He essentially committed suicide."[163] According to Jobs's biographer, Walter Isaacson, "for nine months he refused to undergo surgery for his pancreatic cancer – a decision he later regretted as his health declined".[164] "Instead, he tried a vegan diet, acupuncture, herbal remedies, and other treatments he found online, and even consulted a psychic. He was also influenced by a doctor who ran a clinic that advised juice fasts, bowel cleansings and other unproven approaches, before finally having surgery in July 2004."[165] He eventually underwent a pancreaticoduodenectomy (or "Whipple procedure") in July 2004, that appeared to remove the tumor successfully.[166][167] Jobs did not receive chemotherapy or radiation therapy.[158][168]
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Oily said:
Didn't take you to respond so soon. I added more to my post, would be cool if you addressed that.
Also you just basically admitted that his vegan diet was very much of influence in his disposition to survive his pancreatic cancer.

I can safely say that it didn't increase it.
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No....you misunderstood....a vegan diet definitely has a positive influence on health....ideally being raised exclusively on a plant based diet is the ideal.
If you have the genetic disposition to a certain disease or diseases.....a plant-based diet is the armour to prevent it from showing up.
Steve Jobs was past the point of no return. Once you have the disease it's still worth a shot!! There have been many cases where it has been successful!!
I personally know someone who was successful. He had bladder cancer....no chemo....no radiation. Just went raw vegan for the greatest impact!
Plant foods are medicine.....corpses are poison to the human body.
 
Buster2020 said:
No....you misunderstood....a vegan diet definitely has a positive influence on health....ideally being raised exclusively on a plant based diet is the ideal.
If you have the genetic disposition to a certain disease or diseases.....a plant-based diet is the armour to prevent it from showing up.
Steve Jobs was past the point of no return. Once you have the disease it's still worth a shot!! There have been many cases where it has been successful!!
I personally know someone who was successful. He had bladder cancer....no chemo....no radiation. Just went raw vegan for the greatest impact!
Plant foods are medicine.....corpses are poison to the human body.
Click to expand...

If Jobs was past the point of return, he wouldn't have lived for 7 more years after the surgery.
It seems you are also ignoring the scientific article I linked, and you are coming up with no proper evidence but choose to rely on your own (biased) anecdotes to "prove" it. That's not how science works. That's not how discussions work. That's not how good arguments are made.
 
Oily said:
If Jobs was past the point of return, he wouldn't have lived for 7 more years after the surgery.
It seems you are also ignoring the scientific article I linked, and you are coming up with no proper evidence but choose to rely on your own (biased) anecdotes to "prove" it. That's not how science works. That's not how discussions work. That's not how good arguments are made.
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Surgery obviously helped....I'm sure changing his diet did too....but from what I recall he did start to eat fish again.
If you want wisdom go to nutritionfacts.org
Plenty of case studies....science and statistics.
Look.....I've been on both sides of the fence myself....I can honestly tell you.....it's MUCH better on this side!
 
Radical vegan/PETA type people are disturbed in the head. If veganism works best for you, go for it; and Im all for ethical treatment of animals, but seriously, chill tf out. They absolute would outlaw pet & livestock ownership if they could. And all consumption of meat. And they would ban all animal population control too. But apparently they are allowed to 'euthanize' all the animals they want. Extremists of pretty much any leaning are a problem.
 
Buster2020 said:
Again....cherry picking. Sardinia is one of many BLUE ZONES....along with Okinawa and other locations.
The common denominator is that they eat PLENTY of fresh raw vegetables and are VERY active. Low stress....contentment....a sense of community.....the pursuit of happiness.
Body....mind.....soul....all of it MUST be attended to and respected.
As for your dead goat shit.....no.
Click to expand...

All of them, NOT VEGAN.


https://www.sardiniafooddistrict.com/en/goat-milk-cheese/9-cazu-de-crabittu.html - because doing this is so vegan. Lol @ u.

"it will remind you how people once lived, managing to create extraordinary products out of utter misery." The sardinians ate this for centuries and lived long for it.

I win.
 
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ZTHorse said:
All of them, NOT VEGAN.


https://www.sardiniafooddistrict.com/en/goat-milk-cheese/9-cazu-de-crabittu.html - because doing this is so vegan. Lol @ u.

"it will remind you how people once lived, managing to create extraordinary products out of utter misery." The sardinians ate this for centuries and lived long for it.

I win.
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There are some things you are not addressing. You have to remember it's QUALITY of life not only QUANTITY of life.
There is a possibility of many health ailments like osteoporosis and arthritis due to a diet rich in dairy.
I'm sure this "food" was not contributing factor to their longevity as much as the plant foods were....which were likely in greater portions. Plus the fact they were very active people etc....
Try a little experiment......go eat that goat shit as much as you want for a year or two....see how you feel....get your blood work done.... cholesterol etc.
 
Buster2020 said:
There are some things you are not addressing. You have to remember it's QUALITY of life not only QUANTITY of life.
There is a possibility of many health ailments like osteoporosis and arthritis due to a diet rich in dairy.
I'm sure this "food" was not contributing factor to their longevity as much as the plant foods were....which were likely in greater portions. Plus the fact they were very active people etc....
Try a little experiment......go eat that goat shit as much as you want for a year or two....see how you feel....get your blood work done.... cholesterol etc.
Click to expand...

Wrong. The sardinians were living long lives for centuries before that recent study. They ate the most brutal animal products that you can imagine.

Also weston price proved that there is NO VEGAN populations ever to survive generations. The inuit ate ONLY animal products and so did he when he stayed with them. He lived to his 80s when the average lifespan of his contemporaries was 40-50s.

Checkmate.
 
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ZTHorse said:
Wrong. The sardinians were living long lives for centuries before that recent study. They ate the most brutal animal products that you can imagine.

Also winston price proved that there is NO VEGAN populations ever to survive generations. The inuit ate ONLY animal products and so did he when he stayed with them. He lived to his 80s when the average lifespan of his contemporaries was 40-50s.

Checkmate.
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The Inuit had and still have rampant osteoporosis and other ailments.
Some Hindus and Jains diets were at vegetarian for centuries. Some tribes in Africa too.
Sardinians genetics plays a part....like I said....it's 50/50....genetics/environmental (diet). Like I said QUALITY not only QUANTITY of life matters.
Bottom line....I go with my personal experiences and the science of today.
Win! Win!
 
Buster2020 said:
The Inuit had and still have rampant osteoporosis and other ailments.
Some Hindus and Jains diets were at vegetarian for centuries. Some tribes in Africa too.
Sardinians genetics plays a part....like I said....it's 50/50....genetics/environmental (diet). Like I said QUALITY not only QUANTITY of life matters.
Bottom line....I go with my personal experiences and the science of today.
Win! Win!
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VEGETARIAN is NOT VEGAN. You still eat eggs, milk and cheese and get by ok.

"Scientists believe it's one of the world's healthiest patterns of eating, and can protect against a lot of chronic diseases. ... And yet despite the fact that the high-fat Arctic diet may sound like a heart attack waiting to happen, the Inuit tend to have low rates of heart disease and diabetes."

Better than the standard american diet still.

justmeat.co

Just meat.

Carnivorous eating, paleolithic ketogenic diet and medicine, and zero carb lifestyle. Don’t bother with vegetables. Just eat meat.
justmeat.co justmeat.co

Double win.
 
ZTHorse said:
VEGETARIAN is NOT VEGAN. You still eat eggs, milk and cheese and get by ok.

justmeat.co

Just meat.

Carnivorous eating, paleolithic ketogenic diet and medicine, and zero carb lifestyle. Don’t bother with vegetables. Just eat meat.
justmeat.co justmeat.co

Double win.
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The science agrees with me....not you.
So does my real life experiences.
Keep calm and continue as you are.....one day if you're lucky you might be able to text from the hospital....hopefully not terminal.
 

Oh so you admit that vegan athletes need to suppliment? (Aka protien powders)

How is that not a deficient diet.

Lol.


Body builder jon venus no longer vegan.
 
As for vegan athletes....not necessary....to each their own.
As for B12....EVERYONE should take it at least twice a month.
Funny thing....I have a friend....she's a multimillionaire meat head. She buys the most expensive steaks and other dead things and eats it daily.
She was found to be low in B12 and iron....and is now on blood pressure medication.
She is taking supplements.
I just told her....eat plant'based and all will be well!!
She has no desire to....I told her I will say something nice at her funeral.
 
Buster2020 said:
As for vegan athletes....not necessary....to each their own.
As for B12....EVERYONE should take it at least twice a month.
Funny thing....I have a friend....she's a multimillionaire meat head. She buys the most expensive steaks and other dead things and eats it daily.
She was found to be low in B12 and iron....and is now on blood pressure medication.
She is taking supplements.
I just told her....eat plant'based and all will be well!!
She has no desire to....I told her I will say something nice at her funeral.
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[Citation needed]
 
He's foolish!! There are many healthy people today that were raised from birth on a plant based diet.....including an Olympic Athlete.
Bad decision on his part.
 
Buster2020 said:
He's foolish!! There are many healthy people today that were raised from birth on a plant based diet.....including an Olympic Athlete.
Bad decision on his part.
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Lol babies arent vegan. Drinking moms breast milk is an animal food.

There is no such thing as a lifelong vegan.
 
I want to remind everyone that the vegan movement has uniquely developed a pro-zoo faction. Whether you agree with veganism or not, vegans cannot help but to see the glaring hypocrisy that is inherent in someone that moralizes about "consent" while consuming a giant tomahawk steak. Their intuitive comprehension of what festering bullshit is at the heart of such double-think makes them natural allies.

We could court them as allies without changing our diets by supporting initiatives to perfect lab meat technology. That way, we could preserve our lifestyle while staying on good terms with our earliest major set of allies.
 
Australian Aborigines have a culture spanning 50,000 years eating animals. You can't call them Murderer's for surviving on limited food sources for 50,000 years.

Veganism is a first world problem it only exists because people have spare time and energy to devote to a limited life choice.

There are more ex-vegans than there are current vegans which says a lot about the multi generational concept.

I saw the definition somewhere that meat is food and plants are medicine, you can't survive on medicine alone.
 
I am almost completely immigrated to a pescetarian diet with a built-in exception for gifts made out of love or friendship. I have a preference for shellfish. They are almost nothing but ganglia. Octopi and squid are completely out. Some fish of the vertebrate variety still on menu.
 
Buster2020 said:
Funny thing....I have a friend....she's a multimillionaire meat head. She buys the most expensive steaks and other dead things and eats it daily.
She was found to be low in B12 and iron....and is now on blood pressure medication.
She is taking supplements.
Click to expand...

Yes, sometimes people can have a B12 deficiency even if their intake is the same as someone without a deficiency. Intestinal malabsorption can cause this for example [1,2]. Low iron has other possible causes, as does being on "blood pressure medication". Your point with that vague, slightly irrelevant story is what exactly?
 
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