I am very scared of the vegan movement, they will try to take our right away to have companion animals.

[BlueBeard]

Another red herring fallacy. You keep avoiding to address my arguments. Face it, you lost the debate.

What debate? No debate started. Until you admit you were wrong to call humans who eat meat "murderers," there is no debate. You can't have everything on your terms, child. You must concede things you are wrong about so that we can move on to dismantling the rest of your.... I mean, move on to actually debating.

If you do not enter an argument willing to admit when you are wrong, there is no argument. You are dancing with yourself and making love to a fantasy in your head. No one can climb into that world of make-believe with you.

When you are ready to come out and play, I'm here in the ballpark sitting in the dugout, sucking on my sunflower seeds, waiting for the other team to finally show up and put on their cleats.

 

[BlueBeard]

You are doing a straw man fallacy.

Wild cats exist without human help. Who said anything about murdering them?

Can some one please debate me without using fallacies?

You go first. Show us what that looks like.

 

[BlueBeard]

Extinction of hundreds of species? Can you please point out a few species?

I am not a cat lover but I don't hate them either and your statement seems misleading.

I'm still trying to get past the assumption that carnivores are evil. It's not just humans who eat meat that are murderers, it's their filthy little carnivore cats. Because, not to be speciesist or anything, but some animals have more right to life and be true to their own nature than others. (?)

And the "supper dogmatic." I'm stealing that and passing out silk-screened t-shirts. Want one? "I eat meat. It's part of supper dogmatism."

That an vegan Skittles. I have a very, VERY funny story about Skittles and a blow job, but... doesn't fit in here. I'll have to tell it in another thread. But "vegan" Skittles. I haven't seen that commercial. Wonder why they don't brag about that more.

 

[BlueBeard]

I should have been clearer. That's a generic you, meaning vegans generally.


Bull. Fucking. Shit. You forget I have a farm, a place where ignorant people drop their unwanted animals. About 1 in 20 cats survive longer than a week. None have ever survived a full year.

You want to know where my attitude comes from? Guess who has to "dispose" of all those unwanted animals. Tell me again how the SPCA's speutering is working out.

Well, at our place, the black kitties do have a better rate of surviving to adulthood than the white ones. White ones get picked off right away at night by owls. The black ones don't live too much longer, since the boss has us dispatch as many cats that survive to adulthood as we can with a .22 (but Aluzky's okay with that, that's not "murder," since they were only carnivores).

That is a LOT different than hunting. I HATE "kill cat" days, since I like cats and have a couple awesomely affectionate ones at home. I take no joy in doing that but, but only a couple of us *can* do it. One's the operations manager, a woman. The other's me. The rest can't stomach it. And to tell the truth, it makes me a little sick in the gut, too. First of all, they're healthy cats just being cats. It hurts to be the one to end them. And then of course, the other thing's the blow to my manly pride -- that bitch outshoots me! (She never misses).

 

[BlueBeard]

Well, at our place, the black kitties do have a better rate of surviving to adulthood than the white ones. White ones get picked off right away at night by owls. The black ones don't live too much longer, since the boss has us dispatch as many cats that survive to adulthood as we can with a .22 (but Aluzky's okay with that, that's not "murder," since they were only carnivores).

That is a LOT different than hunting. I HATE "kill cat" days, since I like cats and have a couple awesomely affectionate ones at home. I take no joy in doing that but, but only a couple of us *can* do it. One's the operations manager, a woman. The other's me. The rest can't stomach it. And to tell the truth, it makes me a little sick in the gut, too. First of all, they're healthy cats just being cats. It hurts to be the one to end them. And then of course, the other thing's the blow to my manly pride -- that bitch outshoots me! (She never misses).

Oh shit shit shit.... damn me. Never realized this. Those OWLS are carnivores. I should be shooting OWLS! (Fuckin murdering owls!!!)

Naw. Naw, I don't think so. Get caught shooting owls, it's $1,500 per owl in restitution, plus fines, forfeiture of weapon. Wildlife is considered property of the state here.

Okay, back to just shooting cats.

 

[Aluzky]

To compare it to rape or murder though is laughable by any degree you try and look at it

Your argument is not even an argument. Calling it "laughable" does not prove you are right or that I'm wrong.

It is a new thing that humans are eating so much meat with their diet, in the past this was not the case. You can't know the future. We know for a fact that meat consumption is unethical and harmful to the environment, in the future, people may care more about being ethical and they may outlaw meat consumption.

▬▬▬▬▬

Bull. Fucking. Shit. You forget I have a farm, a place where ignorant people drop their unwanted animals. About 1 in 20 cats survive longer than a week. None have ever survived a full year.

You want to know where my attitude comes from? Guess who has to "dispose" of all those unwanted animals. Tell me again how the SPCA's speutering is working out.

@caikgoch

I didn't said anything non-factual. Nor you provided any factual evidence to contradict my claims or to support your claims. You are doing an anecdotal fallacy. Just because in your area there are not enough resources or many predators for a cat population to thrive in the wild, it does not mean the same is true for other places. There are other places that have wild populations of cats living.

I'm sure you know that you can't grab any wild animal and expert them to live well in any place. You can't grab a pack of wolves and expert them to live in the wild in the middle of the ocean, they would die, same way if you put cats in a place where they are not fit for living. Obviously you would leave cats to live in the wild in places where they can live in the wild, not in places where THEY CAN NOT LIVE.

Speutering ←What is speutering?

▬▬▬▬

Extinction of hundreds of species? Can you please point out a few species?

I am not a cat lover but I don't hate them either and your statement seems misleading.

@knotinterested

Quote: Cats have contributed to the extinction of 63 species of birds, mammals, and reptiles in the wild and continue to adversely impact a wide variety of other species, including those at risk of extinction such as Piping Plover. Source: https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/

IMO, cats have gotten more species than those extinct. We humans don't even know every species that exist. Cats could have easily destroyed species before humans had time to discover them. Also, several others species are on the brink of extinction because of cats.

▬▬▬▬

What debate?

Sight... you are so slow...

My claim: Killing animals without a valid reason is murder. (You disagree with this and proposed a counter argument thus a debate started)

Your rebuttal to my claim: Killing animals is not murder because the law say so.

My rebuttal to your claim: The law is not always right. Do you have proof that what the law says about killing animals is not murder is true?

Your rebuttal: ?Red Herring Fallacy. ?

At this point you lost the debate, instead of providing evidence that what the law says is true or using some other valid rebuttal, you avoided this path and instead focused on using red herring fallacies. You lost the debate.

No debate started.

Sigh... you don't even know what a debate is...

Debate: a formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward.

The topic was: killing animals wichut a valid reason is murder. The public meting is this public forum. Me and you doing rebuttals is the formal discussion. You making opposing arguments against my arguments and me doing the same is part of the debater. The moment you started using fallacies as rebuttals and refused to give any valid rebuttals, that is when you lost the debate. You calling it checkmate despite you being the one that lost the debate, it shows a lot about your non-rational way of thinking. In the end, we where having a debate.

Until you admit you were wrong to call humans who eat meat "murderers," there is no debate.

Straw man fallacy. I do not call them murderers unless they actively murder animals with their own hands. I call meat eaters that don't murder animals with their own hands accomplices to murder.

If I get proven wrong with facts I will admit to be wrong. But as shown by you in our prior debate, you only have fallacies as rebuttals and stick to using fallacies when you are losing the debate. And here you are, still avoiding the debate. You instead of making this reply, you could have tried to make a rational rebuttal and continue the debate. But nope.

When ever you are ready, I will continue the debate if you chose to do so. So, show me factual proof that the law is not wrong about it stating that animal killing is not murder. If you can't prove that, then the law is nothing but a circular argument, a circular argument proves nothing, is a form of begging the question fallacy.

 

[Aluzky]

As @BlueBeard put it perfectly, @Aluzky isn't here to debate anyone

Keep talking more bullshit. I always appreciate a good debate. You have no evidence to prove otherwise.

they're just here to shame everyone that doesn't fit their same line of thought

I'm not trying to shame anyone. But hey, if they feel shame from being pointed the truth, maybe they should do something to no longer feel shame, I don't know, maybe turn vegan? That is one way to no longer feel shame from doing animal abuse or supporting animal abuse.

and now if we eat meat we're murderers.

If you pay some one to murder animals so you can eat them, you are literally being an accomplish of murder. This is a fact. I'm not stating any lies. My job is to state facts. How you feel about those facts is up to you. And if those facts makes you feel shame, so be it.

It's a circular logic battle that has no victor except for the self proclaimed one who started the argument who are only seeking self-justification.

I seek the truth. If I get proven to be wrong with facts, I will admit that I'm wrong and I will change my beliefs to fit reality. This is the opposite of what wolfia and similar users would do, as even when proven wrong with facts, mthey still continue to hold the same non-factual beliefs.

I'm not trying to prove anything to you anymore, I'm simply stating that you're views are simply laughable and your viewpoint of history is completely misguided. 99% of the forum members dont care about your position and you want to throw a shit fit because we dont. Your position on this topic has honestly become a joke at this point

Same way giving women rights was seen as a joke by majority of men. Same way making slavery legal was seen as a joke by a majority of slave owner. It is of no surprise that majority of people who is Ok with animal abuse (becausese of their diet) will see animal rights activism as a joke.

 

[Aluzky]

I'm still trying to get past the assumption that carnivores are evil.

Has some one in here made such argument?

It's not just humans who eat meat that are murderers, it's their filthy little carnivore cats. Because, not to be speciesist or anything, but some animals have more right to life and be true to their own nature than others. (?)

You are attacking a straw man fallacy. Again, more fallacies from you.

Aluzky's okay with that, that's not "murder," since they were only carnivores.

That is another straw man fallacy. Killing animals is not murder if there is a valid reason to do it. Like killing an invasive species that humans introduced, this is the right thing to do to save all the other species from being obliterated. Or killing an animal in self defense is not murder. Or killing an animal to eat him/her for survival reason, that is not murder.

Again, it seem that nothing I said stick to your brain. You have no ability to form rational though... It is like talking with a wall.

PS: I don't have enough information to know if the cat killing you are involved with is valid or not. So, I can't judge that as justifiable or as murder/animal-abuse.

 

[Aluzky]

You dont have a debate nor evidence either, just a soapbox to throw a temper tantrum.

Subjective opinion, not fact. Next.

No one gives a shit about your little whine contest

I guess all those people that DM me telling me they support me and that the give a fuck about what I say, I guess they don't exist? I must be delusional right? That or you are talking bullshit.

as everyone has already stated their position on it. You're not doing anything good or changing any minds

Subjective opinion, not fact. Next.

just sounding like an incoherent lunatic and asshole that would, more than likely, welcome mass starvation if it meant that your and the rest of the vegan worlds agendas could be met.

Subjective opinion, not fact. Next.

 

[Tailo]

Guys, please have some compassion for Aluzky.
You wouldn't keep poking a dog who can't understand what you want from him, would you?

And @Aluzky, I'm sorry if this may have just sounded like a mean thing to say, but it's not to make fun of you. I sincerely hope people will listen, because this discussion can't lead anywhere due to a lack of comprehension. Besides I think it's lovely and good that you refrain from using animal products. You are a role model in that respect.

 

[Aluzky]

And even if they did so what?

It proves that your statement was bullshit.

It's not going to change mine or anyone else's opinion.

That is true. But still proves that your statement is bullshit.

Had you had some respect to people and their choices and not trying to shove the idea that everyone was comparable to murderers because they enjoy to eat meat on a daily basis, I'd give you big respect back for being tolerant at the least.

Sorry, but just like I can't respect people who chose to murder humans or rape humans or steal. I can't not respect/be-tolerant of people who chose to support animal abuse with their diet or who chose to do animal abuse with heir own hands (like sport hunting for fun)

I could care less if you would respect me if I where to respect and tolerate animal abusers. That ain't happening, animal abuse should not be tolerated nor respected.

But because your so intolerant of others I'm not going to give 2 shits about your opinions or ideas

Invalid excuses. You are no different from a rapist who say: Since you are so intolerant of human rape, I will ignore your opinions that raping humans is wrong and I will go back to enjoying my rape victims.

and today when my pup makes my hamburger for dinner I'll be thinking of you as I tear apart that wonderfully shredded muscle, imagining the amazing journey that cow made from birth, to slaughter, to my stomach, and eventually to the toilet :3

And this is how we can tell the difference between non-zoosadistic humans and zoosadistic humans. At least those who are against animal abuse feel some shame when they eat animals, you on the other hand, YOU ENJOY IT. You clearly don't give a fuck about animals being abused. Which again, you are in a forum about sex with animals, if you make it clear that you enjoy abusing animals just to eat them, why should we think that you are not raping animals too? I may not have proof that you rape animals, but I certainly don't want to have anything to do with you, and would love if cops where to check on your animals, to make sure they are safe.

 

[BlueBeard]

Sight... you are so slow...

LOL

No shit, I'm slow. That's why I don't run down my animals to murder them. Instead, I use bullets. Bullets be so much MUCH faster.

Okay, so let's go for it. Let's pretend you're not a whackadoodle and just go with your definition. Laws aside. Dictionary aside. Logic aside. Dead gay people aside. Let's do this thing:

I'm a serial animal murderer. (Oh, and I *eat* them, too. So no way out of this. It's a full on, capital offense). Wait wait wait... icing on the cake -- in your arguments, you've also said folks who murder animals probably also rape them and are sadists.

You win. I lose.

So.... what happens now?

I've "murdered" animals in the past. You know damn well I'm going to do it again. So what should be done about this? Argue this to a conclusion and a call to action.

I just pled guilty to being a cannibalistic, serial killing animal sadist, self-convicted. What's my sentence?

 

[BlueBeard]

Guys, please have some compassion for Aluzky.
You wouldn't keep poking a dog who can't understand what you want from him, would you?

And @Aluzky, I'm sorry if this may have just sounded like a mean thing to say, but it's not to make fun of you. I sincerely hope people will listen, because this discussion can't lead anywhere due to a lack of comprehension. Besides I think it's lovely and good that you refrain from using animal products. You are a role model in that respect.

Busted. In fact, I just two hours ago admitted this in an email to another member.

I feel a little mean for using him this way. I do have compassion for Aluzky. And I did think hard and long about exploiting his responses. But then I got to thinking, on the other hand, he lives for this, Tailo. It juices him. He doesn't seem to be injured at all by it. He's a full-grown man, not a child (what? 37 is it?). And look at his responses. He maintains the same, steady, consistent tone he has always had. He's enjoying the attention. And he's so resilient. Don't you agree?

He's a little lightning rod. When he posts, I can *feel* a hundred people tuning in to see what Aluzky has said now.

I'm no longer worried that we'll break him. He's unbreakable. He's marvelously impervious. I've said it before and dare say it again -- any anti-zoos come through our doors, just toss Aluzky at them.

So, I *know* no one takes what he says all that seriously. I don't. And I admit, a little bit ashamed, that I have not been talking *to* him in this thread. (If someone wanted to talk to him, they'd write him an email, and same as him, to me). The public discussion between us is merely a platform to explore and test ideas publicly.

I think he didn't mind, though. Any sign I was hurting him, I would have stopped, if I ever started. (But he likes this).

And dude, I want to find out what an "animal murderer's" sentence is. It doesn't have to be him. Let Zoo50 answer it, or some other rabid activist.

 

[Aluzky]

You win. I lose.

So.... what happens now?

That is up to you. Some people have something called conscience that tells them that murdering is wrong and they nchose to not murder. So, is up to you if you have a conscience to avoid doing what is harmful to others.

I can't do nothing to stop you from harming others.

▬▬▬▬

That's the funniest accusation anyone has ever accused me of, being a zoosaidst because I loooove the taste of meat.

Not because of that, I also love the taste of meat. The point is, you enjoy that the animal suffered and was murdered to get to your plate. That is the difference between me and you. The deference between an animal abuse supporter and some one who cares about animal rights.

Not once have I ever encountered a zoo that felt "shame" because they ate an animal.

Then you need to talk with more zoos and ask them. Specially talk with zoos that are vegan or vegetarian.

Fuck you if you're calling me a zoosadist especially since you DON'T have proof that I am aside from the mere fact that it pisses you off that I love eating meat along with the majority of this forum and the world's population.

You are giving sings that you enjoy that animals suffer to become meat for you. You said it with your own WORDS. You make it clear that you don't care about animals being abused, so why would you care about animals being raped? Tell me.

Oh and I would love to say the same about the cops checking up on your animals, because I have a strong feeling that they're going to die quicker and have a lower quality of health because of the purely grass and grain infused crap you feed them. Shame, no dog deserves such an neglectful owner.

My dogs are healthy, last vet check up was on January.

To everyone else on this thread, it's in your best interests to ignore this clown, they're a confused bigot with a sense of superiority that because you eat meat and don't feel bad about it, your a lesser human than they are.

Lesser human is not the right word, you are still a human, a human with a harmful code of ethics.

Aside from that I'm not going to bother responding to his thread anymore, it's obvious that @Aluzky is just a troll

I don't think you know the definition of the word troll as you are misusing the word to describe me as a troll.

with no meaningful contribution to this forum as opposed to what I had thought before, and is just a sad spineless dipshit that likes being used like someones personal fleshlight (can be read here )

I'm a very happy person in real life. I'm not spineless either. You are doing false attribution, giving me properties that are false and that you can't support with evidence. And yes, depending of the circumstances, I don't have problems with being used as a sex toy by humans or by animals.

In the end, you recur to insulting me, instead of trying to prove that murdering animals is right, you avoid doing that, because you know that such position is not a defensible position. It is an argument that can't be won.

In the end, vegans win because you people chose to run away from the debate.Yet I'm the spineless one? Despite you calling me that as you run away with your tail between your legs.

 

[FeralLovin']

Let Zoo50 answer it, or some other rabid activist.

Is he even still active here? And what about his good cop version SkawdtDawg? Almost seems like these extremists bail when they behave like jackasses and insult the greater part of the users on this site instead of looking for more positive ways to introduce their lifestyles.

 

[FeralLovin']

I'm a very happy person in real life.

Doesn't sound like it seeing as how the world around you is filled with meat eaters that "murder" and "rape." I'd be as miserable as well if I had to keep my ass clenched tight to avoid it being raped by "meat eaters" and then loosening up for a dog or relatives.

I'm not spineless either.

View attachment Aluzky_is_a_moron_SD 360p.mp4

 

[BlueBeard]

That is up to you. Some people have something called conscience that tells them that murdering is wrong and they nchose to not murder. So, is up to you if you have a conscience to avoid doing what is harmful to others.

I can't do nothing to stop you from harming others.

Ah! So I get off with time served, no fine. Thanks, buddy! And thanks for the exercise. We both leave with the opinions we started with, but both of us are also more reassured in our opinions and more articulate. Good game.

 

[caikgoch]

I can't do nothing

So you must do something, the question is, "What?"

 

[knotinterested]

View attachment 52875
I think I can still hear them screaming @Aluzky

"Aluzky... help... avenge us..." XD

Wait a minute - I wasn't invited ...............

 

[Andriodog]

.

I just pled guilty to being a cannibalistic, serial killing animal sadist, self-convicted. What's my sentence?

Life imprisonment, if your lucky enough to not get the chair by that logic.

 

[BlueBeard]

Is he even still active here? And what about his good cop version SkawdtDawg? Almost seems like these extremists bail when they behave like jackasses and insult the greater part of the users on this site instead of looking for more positive ways to introduce their lifestyles.

Well, truth be told, I don't know for sure. Zoo50 is on my ignore list. And SD? Probably got butt-hurt and left. I got so pissed at his disingenuous posturing, I feel a bit ashamed of myself. I'm old enough to be mature about that. But gawd-dang-it-frickin'-shit-all-to-hell... little shit needed to keep his beak out of my personal health. Two minutes of Googling doesn't overrule or supersede my professional health-care team and the incredible feat we pulled off, turning my situation around. That just sent me through the roof. Shut the fuck up, kid. Open your goddam ears up to the actual, real-life experiences of others and not your shallow computer screen. "Oh. I'm just suggesting you seek a second opinion." Fuck me.

 

[BlueBeard]

Wait a minute - I wasn't invited ...............

I was going to scold him for taunting, but... I got drool on my keyboard, seeing all that fresh ground meat. Had to scroll down to clear the screen.

 

[BlueBeard]

Dear OP:

I'm not a Supreme Court justice in real life, but... I'm going to drop a gavel on this (with the room's permission). Ain't no one taking your rabbit away. *Real* vegans aren't your concern. The activist vegans are too few to matter to you, and the ones that *maybe* are? There's no bite in their bark.

Love your rabbit. Carry on. No worries. Give it a hug for me. (And that's coming from a hunter who *eats* rabbits. Your rabbit is totally safe from me and my dogs. We're after prey-rabbits, not our brethern's lovers.)

(PS: If you ever want to *divorce* that rabbit, though, call me up. I do have recipes.) Ouch.

 

[Aluzky]

@FeralLovin
The world is filled with injustices toward humans, children, animals, etc. Some people can cope with them, some people fall into depression just by knowing they happen. I cope just fine, I'm not depressed by it.

 

[Aluzky]

So you must do something, the question is, "What?"

Only thing I can do is share facts with people so they ponder upon those facts and do adequate changes to their life stile based on those facts.

 

[BlueBeard]

@FeralLovin
The world is filled with injustices toward humans, children, animals, etc. Some people can cope with them, some people fall into depression just by knowing they happen. I cope just fine, I'm not depressed by it.

Even from my completely opposite "animal murdering" point of view, I totally agree. As a teacher who desperately tried to save my students, I *eventually* came to the conclusion, I can't save them all. Some are going to die. Some will drink and drive after football games no matter what I do and wrap their cars around telephone poles. I have to continue. I can't accept responsibility for that. That was totally on them. And then, too, I would encounter 4.0s whose grade point and academic performance "insulated them" from psychological help.... When they committed suicide? I'd done all I could. I had to give up blaming myself for not convincing others they needed help.

We do what we can. And then, in humility, admit to the universe we are not superhuman. We cannot change the world. We just do what we can.

Good on you, sir!

 

[BlueBeard]

@Aluzky

Final word. To you, my meat-eating habits and hunting may seem hideously offensive. But we're still on the same team, really. If anti-zoos come for you, I still have your back. To get to you, they have to come through me. And I'm a perverse, animal-murdering, apex predator sonofabitch that has no problem using force to protect my community members.

YOU, you may be willing to die alone in an alley for the cause.

ME, I ain't gonna stand by and let that happen. Can't. Won't. I think your dog would do the same, right? Attack those who threaten you?

Us old dogs are like that. My pack, I protect. (ESPECIALLY given your mental disabilities! Hahahahahahaha.... j/k).

No matter how much I bark and snap at you? Eres mi familia. ¿Intiendas? El hermano mayor te da un Dutch rub, pero nadie se mete con mi hermano pequeño.

 

[BlueBeard]

View attachment 52875
I think I can still hear them screaming @Aluzky

"Aluzky... help... avenge us..." XD

Damn it, you sonofabitch. I'm drooling. Fucker. It's an hour till supper yet and I want THOSE!

 

[UR20Z]

View attachment 52875
I think I can still hear them screaming @Aluzky

"Aluzky... help... avenge us..." XD

Hey, you murderous asshole! Make damn sure one of those is done on the rare side of medium for me! If it ain't pink in the middle, I'll have to do something horrible to you for your sins!

 

[Hewflungpew]

As @BlueBeard put it perfectly, @Aluzky isn't here to debate anyone, they're just here to shame everyone that doesn't fit their same line of thought, very much like @Wolfia and @Hewflungpew . Different topics of argument but with no intention to actually dialog with the rest of everyone else. Because a man has sex with a dog, they're a rapist (Wolfia) because someone looks to other's for advice and community they're a spineless idiot (Hewflungpew), and now if we eat meat we're murderers. It's a circular logic battle that has no victor except for the self proclaimed one who started the argument who are only seeking self-justification.

I simply stated my oppinon that if you ask questions like: am I gay, am I zoo, am I bi and so on.. That you simply don't know YOURSELF and you need to figure it out yourself not ask ppl you don't know and don't know you.

And that if you have to classify ppl as gay bi or whatever you are part of the problem why racisum will never die! Labels shouldn't matter to you if you know who you are. THATS WHY I said fuck your lables, in the last conversation that we had that you could not understand.(you took it as I was personally attacking alusky or whoever)

You obviously don't have the capacity to pick up what I put down most of the time.

Like I said to you b4(in French accent): go away or I shall be forced to taunt you a second time!

Or go ahead and come back at me about how you think lableisum isn't racist so I can make you look like even more of a fool!