@BlueBeard @Andriodog
Several times he has said that he enjoys murdering animals. He makes it clear to others that he enjoys that. If that is how he things about eating them and murdering them, how is he during sex? Think about it. He has made it clear that his pleasure comes first, even at the cost of murdering animals, if he does not care about murdering them, you think he will care about not raping them? The guy is obviously a zoosadist without a drop of compassion. Else, why would he go around gloating about his enjoyment at murdering animals?
What is it with connecting death and sex? I never got that in literature, either. That constant association. And in the movies, even -- sheesh! A bomb is about to go off, destroy a city, and the hero and femme fatale suddenly look at each, then pounce on each other and get naked.
Like, I'm a pilot, right? I cannot for the life of me imagine I've lost both engines, a wing has snapped off, the world is rushing up to me and my last thought is, "Better get these pants off, jack off one last time quick" or "Hey, lady in the back, you feeling it, too? Get up here, then! We only have a minute."
Yet, I come into Zooville and cannot get away from the sex(rape)/death connection for two seconds.
Aluzky et al, ... First. Can you please stop calling it murder? Not really carrying any weight because, of course, it *isn't* murder. By definition it isn't murder. Murder is unjustifiable homicide
as defined by law. There is no such law regarding death of animals, so "murder" does not apply (not yet). You only *want* it to apply. You in particular, Aluzky, value "rational discussion." You want evidence, well reasoned, to support a conclusion. So you kinda wanna avoid misuse of terms and slanted language. Calling it "murder" is an attempt to slander an action with a misapplied word's pejoratively affective power, its emotional evocation. And that's not a persuasive argument.
But you can call it
unjustified killing, sure. I'll go with you for a walk down that path peacefully and thoughtfully. That's fair.
And second, this weird leap from killing to raping.
I do not rape my food ever, folks. I doubt many people here do. "You will kill it; therefore, you will rape it."
Naw. Hellz bellz. I can turn it on/off. Right now, mid February? Deer are cute things. The does are pregnant. The bucks have lost their antlers. And I am content to take photographs of them, love to watch their sleek forms. They're beautiful. They're absolutely beautiful creatures. When hunting season comes, and one is walking toward my stand where I lie in ambush -- perhaps with a bow, perhaps with my blackpowder rifle -- I am a hunter, and that is my prey. I see bratwurst, deer jerky, steak, ground venison, sliced heart sizzling in butter as I bone it out on the patio out back.
The beast in me comes to the surface. Its heartbeat pounds in my veins. All my senses are primal, bestial, predatory. FUCKING INVIGORATING. Love it? You damn betcha I love it. Raw!!! I am an animal, as Tailo said earlier. I am taking an ancient role, I am feeling my natural self in ways I never do the rest of the year. The rest of the year, this part of me lies dormant. But in hunting season? -- Good god, I love the beast in me. And that same deer is different. Now it's prey.
I do not know why you don't understand this. You love animals, but you don't get this? Your dog understands this, but you don't get it?
Talk about animal abuse --
To own a hunting dog and not take it hunting, now that's
ABUSE! My Labs have been AKC-registered animals from long lines of pheasant-hunting champions. Come with me and just watch how they transform in demeanor, even in body language, when they see me take a shotgun from the vault and case it. They go nuts! And in the house, awesome dogs. Gentlemanly dogs. Family dogs. But in the field. Damn! Look at their wide eyes, their ears, how they're set. How in tune, how fine-tuned these little hunting machines are.
If not for my dogs, I probably would not hunt pheasants or rabbits anymore. If not for my boys, I would not hunt deer. (I'd still eat burgers, though).
You believe you understand animals, yet you don't understand that you are a predator? You completely baffle me. You are not a sheep nor deer nor cow nor horse. You are a human being, an apex predator.
But oh well. I don't pressure you or judge you. As I have said many times to different vegans here, I admire your motives and nod to them in genuine respect. You value life. But so do I. Death is part of life.
You be you. I'll be me. I take great pleasure -- during that time of year, when I am a willing volunteer in a highly successful conservation program -- taking up my role as predator and excelling at it. I respect that you do not feel the same way. And that's fine.
But when someone says irresponsibly and cheaply that *because* I am a hunter, because I am an omnivore, because I eat meat -- I am a
rapist? What the hell is wrong with you? How do you keep attempting such an inductive leap without hurting yourself? I mean, that's a pretty wide chasm, and you keep trying to jump it like it was a crack in the sidewalk.
I DO NOT FUCK MY FOOD, so how could I "rape" it?
Maybe there are people who can do that. But to keep assuming *all* of us who eat hamburgers or hunt rabbits would rape them???
We have simply GOT TO get away from that dumb assertion. It's just... dumb.
Rein it back in to just talking about how vegans prefer not to eat animals because they don't like how the animal suffers, both at the moment of its death and, in the case of livestock, the conditions it lives in while it is raised till time for slaughter.
Or let's go back to the OP's concern that vegans are going to cost us, eventually, our right to own companion animals. We hunters and Burger King fans were not his concern. Vegans were. I would say the majority of vegans are not the OPs concerns. But a small minority, yes. There is an activist component that concerns him. And it concerns me. Taken to its inevitable conclusion, aren't animal activists leading us to a conclusion that we should not be interfering in the lives of animals at all?
