Gun Ownership - NO politics, just "Do you or do you not own a firearm"

[umafera]

I'm 100% certain that this is not a human right. It's a constitutional right in the US but not a human right in the entire world. That would mean that at least every european country is disobeing this right.

i use human rights interchangeably here with natural rights.

every human being in the world is born with the natural right to armed individual self defense. as they are born with the natural right to free speech.

authoritarian governments may not respect these rights, this does not make these rights invalid. nor does it make these rights not exist.

 

[Red1085]

Oh yeah....I have many firearms and im a proud US citizen.

 

[Areion]

No way, dose just cause problems!
Gladly in this side of Atlantic it's very hard to get firearms... I can run away from a knife.

 

[I<3horses]

i use human rights interchangeably here with natural rights.

every human being in the world is born with the natural right to armed individual self defense. as they are born with the natural right to free speech.

authoritarian governments may not respect these rights, this does not make these rights invalid. nor does it make these rights not exist.

Ok, i see what you mean. But if you use human rights interchangeably with natural rights you should mention this other wise it can lead to misunderstandings

 

[Bloodwolf]

It i

UR20Z didn't want this thread to get all political and stuff, but I will have to say that while I'm all for the 2nd Amendment, I kinda think the right-to-bear-arms should be a privilege, like driving. There are a lot of people that are way too arrogant, stupid and/or irresponsible to bear arms, er, to have firearms.

View attachment 69957

it is in a way. Get a felony and see if you can pick up a Glock. Just like driving drunk. Get pulled over when your license is suspended and see where you go. You need to do something that warrants your rights removal.

 

[Pillar]

It i

it is in a way. Get a felony and see if you can pick up a Glock. Just like driving drunk. Get pulled over when your license is suspended and see where you go. You need to do something that warrants your rights removal.

Or try being diagnosed with mental health issues or having a domestic violence record.

Yes, in theory we have rights, but "LEGALLY" speaking, we have privileges.

 

[DreamerZoo]

Dont own. Would like to, but the process is almost impossible where I live.

 

[UR20Z]

OK, since it's pretty much inevitable, I'll go semi-political...

While I'm adamantly pro-2A, I do agree that there is a segment of the population who are too stupid, irresponsible, willfully ignorant, mentally ill, or just plain aggressive to be allowed access to firearms - put one in their hands, and they become a danger to all around them. But I'm not enough of an idealist to think that there's ANYBODY who can legitimately make that judgement before "something bad" goes down.

I've personally known guys who'd cheerfully kick your ass up around your ears in a bar-fight for looking at them wrong, and next week, buy you a beer when you walk into that same bar. I'm sure you know at least one of that type, no matter who you are or where you live. But when you put a gun in that same guy's hands, they turn into the most careful, well-mannered, conscientious, "totally chill" guys you'll ever meet - you could walk up to one of 'em, insult their mother, spit in their eye, piss on their shoes, snatch their hat and shit in it, and kick 'em in the shins, but rather than shooting you, they'd hand the gun to a bystander, then proceed to give you the ass-whoopin' you'd just walked up and begged for.

I agree that *SOME* felonies - specifically, those that involve violence or threat of same - should cause a person's gun-rights to be removed. But it's my opinion that the one-size-fits-all "if you catch a felony, you lose your gun rights forever" policy is going too far.

The guy convicted of negligent homicide 'cause his ill-kept car's brakes failed and he hit somebody isn't a "violent felon" - He's a dumbfuck, at least to some degree, for not keeping his gear in proper working order, but that doesn't warrant removal of his gun rights. A thrashing with the clue-bat, and mandatory visits to the mechanic, sure. Being barred from owning a gun ever after? No. Likewise, a so-called "white collar crime" where somebody makes money walk away from where it actually belongs and jump into his own pocket might be a felon, but it's NOT a crime that warrants denial of his gun rights. A guy who sticks up a 7-11 with a gun (or even pretends he has a gun during such a stickup)? Damn straight - No gun for you, son - you've proven that you're not fit to be trusted with one. The guy convicted of beating his wife/kids? Ditto. The key is *VIOLENT* felonies, versus what I categorize as "paperwork" felonies. A paperwork felony should mean you lose your gun rights WHILE YOU'RE DOING YOUR TIME - including any parole/probation/house-arrest/etc after you spend whatever amount of time in "The Big House". An actual violent felony, on the other hand, should mean "game over" for your gun rights, period.

Not that I have any illusions that this would keep violent felons from getting one if/when they get out of the clink, but unless you're deliberately playing stupid, you know what I mean. I'm QUITE aware of how easy it is to put your hands on a gun, with or without official approval. I'd estimate that if I wanted a "no questions asked" black-market gun, I'd need somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 minutes (plus commute time) to have one in my hand. And that's with me having *NO* special connections of any kind - not even the fabled "I know a guy who's a friend of a fellow that hangs with a guy who dates a girl whose sister's ex-boyfriend is a gang-banger and can hook you up with somebody that'll sell you a gun under the table".

Not that I need to have such a gun - Hell, I just got done renewing my concealed carry permit, and passed all the background checks and shit that goes with buying an AR-15 in this state just last month. If I want a gun, I can walk into anyplace that sells 'em, lay my money down, and (after the idiotic waiting period imposed by the idiot politicians who operate under the delusion that such things actually have any useful impact on crime) walk out with one. As should be the case for anyone who hasn't proven that they're not fit, for one reason or another, to be trusted with one.

 

[Geraldine Dupont]

In Germany firearms are very restricted, and most of the citizens approve this

 

[ZooNinja]

don't own a gun but did go target shooting when i was young
great fun

 

[UR20Z]

On the topic of AR-10...

View attachment 69903

Dunno where exactly you found that particular anti-AR-15 meme, but I can see at a glance it was put together by an idiot who knows little more than "Oh! Those scary black riles are evil! Think of the chillllldren!" about firearms.

Y'know How I can tell?

That AR-10 will do things that the AR-15 can only dream about - due to the fact that it spits .308, a round that's very nearly interchangeable with the Main Battle Rifle class .30-06 as far as bullet size, weight, range and power is concerned, rather than .223/5.56, which is, once you get past all the hype and idiocy that surrounds it, nothing but a slightly heavier and faster-flying .22 bullet. (faster due to having a bigger powder charge behind it) The typical .22LR bullet is the same diameter as the .223/5.56, but the bullet weight is usually between 28-40 grains, depending on maker and bullet style, while .223/5.56 ammo has a larger range of bullet weights available, but the overwhelming majority of folks who shoot them use either 55 grain full metal jacket, or 62 grain steel-core "windshield puncher" bullets.

In other words, that cute little meme that, at first glance, seems to actually convey a reasonable point is REALLY suggesting that us AR-15 folks should instead have a *BIGGER, BADDER, MORE POWERFUL* weapon than the AR-15!

Gotta love the ignorance of the anti-gun folks

(Also, I'm still trying to figure out how you tell the difference between "full semi-automatic" and "standard semi-automatic", and more importantly, how one of them can be any more or less safe than the other - Can anybody help me out on that score?)

 

[fly4ever]

I own an FX Whisper .22
if you count a pcp air rifle as a firearm

 

[Pillar]

I own an FX Whisper .22
if you count a pcp air rifle as a firearm
View attachment 70719

In Canada this would classify as a firearm. Glad to see shooting as a hobby is alive and well!

Edit: fly, did you remember to remove the EXIF?

@UR20Z

I couldn't help but LOL when I saw that "the deer hunting round is safer than the .223." ? ? ?

 

[UR20Z]

They

I own an FX Whisper .22
if you count a pcp air rifle as a firearm
View attachment 70719

They may not *TECHNICALLY* be FIREarms, but it's ENTIRELY within the realm of reality for an airgun to be AT LEAST as potent, and in some cases, moreso, than comparable gunpowder-powered boom-sticks, and with one helluva lot less noise.

Betcha didn't know:
The Lewis and Clark expedition that headed out to explore the Louisiana Purchase territory in 1803 carried a .36 caliber air-rifle capable of punching through a 1 inch thick pine board at 100 yards, and is said to have been able to repeat the performance at least 20 times (seems to vary depending on who's reporting it - absolutely nobody claims less than 20, while some say it could do as many as 40 shots before needing a reload) in under 2 minutes before needing to be pumped up again.

Still think an air rifle isn't a real gun? Neither do I!

Before I was given my first actual for-real firearm (a single-shot .22Short/Long/LR) for my 10th birthday, I packed several flavors of BB gun, spring-powered and "pump-up" air rifles, and CO2 pellet guns around the farm and surrounding woods for years - Took a deer with a .177 pump-up pellet gun once, in fact (and got my ass severely warmed, and a thorough reaming about never doing that again - rabbits and squirrels, fine - Deer, NO! Not without a REAL rifle!)

You think this boy is gonna look down on an air rifle owner? If so, you better sit yerself down and have yerself another think, sunny Jim!

 

[UR20Z]

I couldn't help but LOL when I saw that "the deer hunting round is safer than the .223." ? ? ?

Yep. And then to add insult to injury, whoever made the meme totally ignores the reality that the AR-10 was *ORIGINALLY DESIGNED* as a contender to replace the then-current Main Battle Rifle! It's not a "Military Style" rifle that looks like an AR-15 - It *IS* a MILITARY rifle, and the AR-15 is quite literally its "little brother".

 

[Pillar]

They

They may not *TECHNICALLY* be FIREarms, but it's ENTIRELY within the realm of reality for an airgun to be AT LEAST as potent, and in some cases, moreso, than comparable gunpowder-powered boom-sticks, and with one helluva lot less noise.

Betcha didn't know:
The Lewis and Clark expedition that headed out to explore the Louisiana Purchase territory in 1803 carried a .36 caliber air-rifle capable of punching through a 1 inch thick pine board at 100 yards, and is said to have been able to repeat the performance at least 20 times (seems to vary depending on who's reporting it - absolutely nobody claims less than 20, while some say it could do as many as 40 shots before needing a reload) in under 2 minutes before needing to be pumped up again.

Still think an air rifle isn't a real gun? Neither do I!

Before I was given my first actual for-real firearm (a single-shot .22Short/Long/LR) for my 10th birthday, I packed several flavors of BB gun, spring-powered and "pump-up" air rifles, and CO2 pellet guns around the farm and surrounding woods for years - Took a deer with a .177 pump-up pellet gun once, in fact (and got my ass severely warmed, and a thorough reaming about never doing that again - rabbits and squirrels, fine - Deer, NO! Not without a REAL rifle!)

You think this boy is gonna look down on an air rifle owner? If so, you better sit yerself down and have yerself another think, sunny Jim!

Air rifles are exactly that - air rifles. They are not FIREarms or powder burners.

 

[umafera]

Yep. And then to add insult to injury, whoever made the meme totally ignores the reality that the AR-10 was *ORIGINALLY DESIGNED* as a contender to replace the then-current Main Battle Rifle! It's not a "Military Style" rifle that looks like an AR-15 - It *IS* a MILITARY rifle, and the AR-15 is quite literally its "little brother".

the ar-10 meme is a troll lampooning anti-gunners and using their pseudo-logic to make arguments like they would make.

 

[Pillar]

Maybe they do that to make it sound scarier? I mean, to my knowledge there is "auto" and "semi-auto" and no variants thereof.

"Auto" is usually a moniker for full auto, but the media spins it to deceive the public into thinking semi automatics are fully automatics. Think about the crimes on the news where you hear about "a crime with an automatic weapon", then proceed to show a handgun.

 

[Mare Lover 1975]

Maybe they do that to make it sound scarier? I mean, to my knowledge there is "auto" and "semi-auto" and no variants thereof.

Yep, other than multi round burst there is just automatic fire and single shot.

 

[Pillar]

Yep, other than multi round burst there is just automatic fire and single shot.

"Legally" speaking, the NFA defines a fully automatic as any mechanism that allows a shooter to fire more than one shot per pull. Hence why binary triggers couldn't be banned by it, but some faux paus "safety legislation" was passed to ban them in some states. Same with those slide fire stocks - can't have the normal civvies with the ability to have any kind of surpressing firepower, you know? Because this is "for your own safety," the "public safety" and "the greater 'good'."

 

[Mare Lover 1975]

And yet my M1919 belt fed is legal as it's a semi auto

 

[Pillar]

I wanted to get a M249 semi auto but the damn thing costs around $5,000.

 

[Mare Lover 1975]

I wanted to get a M249 semi auto but the damn thing costs around $5,000.

I gave about a grand for my M1919, short barrel WWII model. 250 rounds of linked 30-06 fun was money well spent in my opinion.

 

[Pillar]

I gave about a grand for my M1919, short barrel WWII model. 250 rounds of linked 30-06 fun was money well spent in my opinion.

I couldn't afford anything past a Hi-Point. I'd be lucky just to afford a Taurus or a Smith and Wesson!

 

[UR20Z]

I couldn't afford anything past a Hi-Point. I'd be lucky just to afford a Taurus or a Smith and Wesson!

You say that almost as if you think there's something wrong with a S&W...

My EDC is a Smith & Wesson Model 15-1 with 4 inch barrel that left the factory in 1959, according to the serial number. A .38 Special wheel-gun, older than I am, and still capable of shooting straighter than the small but significant tremor I've started noticing in recent years allows me to aim it anymore - put it in the pistol equivalent of a lead-sled, and it'll shoot half-inch groups all day long at 25 yards, and only opens up to about an inch at 50 yards. Hand-held, single-action mode, I can count on it for "minute-of-paper-plate" groups at 50 yards, and usually 4-5 inches at 25. Double-action hand-held is a bit sloppier, but I can still put 5 out of 6 shots on the paper plate at 50 yards, and routinely get 6-7 inch groups at 25.

I've heard complaints from many directions about post-1980 S&Ws being problem-prone and having crappy fit and finish quality, but since I've never actually fired one of those, let alone owned one, I can't offer anything that even approaches being a realistically useful judgement.

(And yes, a K-frame is generally considered a damned big gun for true "concealed" carry, but since I'm in an open-carry state, and unlike some states that say a concealed-carry permit means the holder *MUST* conceal, here it only means *MAY* conceal, so if it prints, or my flannel flaps in the breeze and exposes it, it's a non-issue)

 

[Bloodwolf]

Dunno where exactly you found that particular anti-AR-15 meme, but I can see at a glance it was put together by an idiot who knows little more than "Oh! Those scary black riles are evil! Think of the chillllldren!" about firearms.

Y'know How I can tell?

That AR-10 will do things that the AR-15 can only dream about - due to the fact that it spits .308, a round that's very nearly interchangeable with the Main Battle Rifle class .30-06 as far as bullet size, weight, range and power is concerned, rather than .223/5.56, which is, once you get past all the hype and idiocy that surrounds it, nothing but a slightly heavier and faster-flying .22 bullet. (faster due to having a bigger powder charge behind it) The typical .22LR bullet is the same diameter as the .223/5.56, but the bullet weight is usually between 28-40 grains, depending on maker and bullet style, while .223/5.56 ammo has a larger range of bullet weights available, but the overwhelming majority of folks who shoot them use either 55 grain full metal jacket, or 62 grain steel-core "windshield puncher" bullets.

In other words, that cute little meme that, at first glance, seems to actually convey a reasonable point is REALLY suggesting that us AR-15 folks should instead have a *BIGGER, BADDER, MORE POWERFUL* weapon than the AR-15!

Gotta love the ignorance of the anti-gun folks

(Also, I'm still trying to figure out how you tell the difference between "full semi-automatic" and "standard semi-automatic", and more importantly, how one of them can be any more or less safe than the other - Can anybody help me out on that score?)

There isn’t any difference. Full semi isn’t a thing. Full auto yes.
and on bigger is better. That’s debatable. 308 can be stopped by level two body armor without AR plate.However 5.56 can not be stopped without some sort of steel in the vest. It’s too fast and slender of a round for plane woven fiber. I still like 308 though.

 

[Pillar]

You say that almost as if you think there's something wrong with a S&W...

My EDC is a Smith & Wesson Model 15-1 with 4 inch barrel that left the factory in 1959, according to the serial number. A .38 Special wheel-gun, older than I am, and still capable of shooting straighter than the small but significant tremor I've started noticing in recent years allows me to aim it anymore - put it in the pistol equivalent of a lead-sled, and it'll shoot half-inch groups all day long at 25 yards, and only opens up to about an inch at 50 yards. Hand-held, single-action mode, I can count on it for "minute-of-paper-plate" groups at 50 yards, and usually 4-5 inches at 25. Double-action hand-held is a bit sloppier, but I can still put 5 out of 6 shots on the paper plate at 50 yards, and routinely get 6-7 inch groups at 25.

I've heard complaints from many directions about post-1980 S&Ws being problem-prone and having crappy fit and finish quality, but since I've never actually fired one of those, let alone owned one, I can't offer anything that even approaches being a realistically useful judgement.

(And yes, a K-frame is generally considered a damned big gun for true "concealed" carry, but since I'm in an open-carry state, and unlike some states that say a concealed-carry permit means the holder *MUST* conceal, here it only means *MAY* conceal, so if it prints, or my flannel flaps in the breeze and exposes it, it's a non-issue)

I don't say that as an insult to Smith and Wesson - they make solid firearms. I'm just saying I'm poor. ?

 

[Bloodwolf]

I don't say that as an insult to Smith and Wesson - they make solid firearms. I'm just saying I'm poor. ?

10/22 man. Anyone can afford one of them.

 

[UR20Z]

Maybe they do that to make it sound scarier? I mean, to my knowledge there is "auto" and "semi-auto" and no variants thereof.

<heheheh> Yep, that's it exactly. So far as I know, there are only 7 *REAL-WORLD* (as opposed to pure bullshit media/anti-gun hype) firing modes:

Single-shot = one trigger pull makes one bang, then manually reload the weapon before you can shoot again. EVERY muzzle-loader is a single-shot gun. There are also a good number of (reasonably-)modern breech-loaders that are single-shot.

Semi-auto = one trigger pull makes one bang. Repeat until magazine is empty, you have a round fail to fire, or have a mechanical failure of some type. Then either reload, manually cycle the action, or fix the malfunction (if possible) before you can start firing again.

Single-action revolver = Pull back hammer, pull trigger. One bang. Repeat as many times as there are holes in the cylinder, then reload. A very few, very old, very scarce nowdays models may require manually rotating the cylinder between shots.

Double-action revolver = Pull the trigger, get one bang. Pull it again. One bang. And again. One bang. Repeat until you run out of whatever capacity your cylinder has. Reload and start again.

Burst mode = one trigger pull makes <insert round count that particular gun is set up to produce> bangs. Repeat until mag is empty, reload.

Full-auto = One trigger pull-then-hold goes bang over and over again until the trigger is released, the magazine runs dry, or a mechanical failure (perhaps you've shot so many rounds the barrel melts...) or similar issue stops the fire/eject/load/fire cycle.

Continuous fire = Gatling gun, the A-10 Warthog's GAU-8 Avenger, the M-134 Minigun (AKA "The gun Jesse Ventura's character uses in the movie Predator") etc - Hit the switch or turn the crank - it keeps firing until you stop turning the crank, release the switch, the ammo supply is gone, or there's some sort of mechanical failure, whichever comes first.

 

[Pillar]

10/22 man. Anyone can afford one of them.

A 9mm is always better than a .22 for defense.