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General Homesteading thread

UR20Z said:
Yep. Last time I looked in on the state of the research, the conclusion had been drawn that Juglone is a Black Walnut tree's version of "Agent Orange" - Keeps competing plants from growing (kills some before they even break out of the seed husk) near enough to the tree to suck up nutrients it wants. Basically, the ground anywhere within the "drip-line" of a black walnut is going to be nearly barren, other than a few particularly hardy weeds (Burdock being one of the main ones) and some grasses, and unless the top 10 inches or so of soil is removed and replaced with something else, will stay that way for years even after the tree has been removed. They've got nice wood for various projects, but overall, they're downright evil trees.
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I know. My land is full of them. Been a pain in the ass since I got here
 
UR20Z said:
Yep. Last time I looked in on the state of the research, the conclusion had been drawn that Juglone is a Black Walnut tree's version of "Agent Orange" - Keeps competing plants from growing (kills some before they even break out of the seed husk) near enough to the tree to suck up nutrients it wants. Basically, the ground anywhere within the "drip-line" of a black walnut is going to be nearly barren, other than a few particularly hardy weeds (Burdock being one of the main ones) and some grasses, and unless the top 10 inches or so of soil is removed and replaced with something else, will stay that way for years even after the tree has been removed. They've got nice wood for various projects, but overall, they're downright evil trees.
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hmmmmm you just sparked an interesting idea.

I wonder if you could soak black walnut leaves / husks etc and use it as an organic version of roundup?
 
Bloodwolf said:
I know. My land is full of them. Been a pain in the ass since I got here
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Talk to your local ag-extension type folks - They can put you on to people who will come in and take 'em out for you, and pay you for the privilege - I've heard of 30 footers going for upwards of $20K each as veneer logs. Bonus: if you find a "stupid" one: They'll pay to drop the tree and haul it off, leaving the stump behind, then you can call one that has a clue and get paid again for letting them come in and dig up the stump and taproots - which make perfectly fine veneer that'll bring a ridiculous sum of cash.
 
sarahsingletono98 said:
hmmmmm you just sparked an interesting idea.

I wonder if you could soak black walnut leaves / husks etc and use it as an organic version of roundup?
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One piece I read on 'em years ago had that idea, but it got dropped when they realized how wide-spectrum it is, and how long it stays active after application. From the reading I did, they came to the conclusion that it's great for clearing ground that you never want anything (other than weeds) to grow on again, but for any other purpose, it'd be less headache to just plow rock-salt into the ground.

On the other hand, black walnut hulls DO make reasonably decent fabric dye - depending on how "strong" the "tea" is made, you can get anything from yellow to deep green, and a nice, rich brown.
 
Hmm, we have several black walnut trees on my dad's farm but it's just farmland and woods. I had no idea how evil they were. I've heard that bush honeysuckle uses chemical warfare too to kill out competing plants and we have a lot of that crap too. :(
 
wishboner said:
Hmm, we have several black walnut trees on my dad's farm but it's just farmland and woods. I had no idea how evil they were. I've heard that bush honeysuckle uses chemical warfare too to kill out competing plants and we have a lot of that crap too. :(
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There are several (known... who can say how many others that haven't been noticed so far) plants that do the chemical warfare thing. Some target other plants, other target the critters that might eat them. (I'm looking at you and your urushiol, poison ivy/poison oak/poison sumac, and to a lesser degree, cashew trees - Betcha didn't know that eating raw cashews will wreck your whole world, didja? Every cashew you've ever eaten has been cooked (usually roasted, sometimes boiled then roasted) to remove/destroy the urushiol)
 
Lets not forget the real party favorite fun one such as Giant hog weed!
 

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UR20Z said:
One piece I read on 'em years ago had that idea, but it got dropped when they realized how wide-spectrum it is, and how long it stays active after application. From the reading I did, they came to the conclusion that it's great for clearing ground that you never want anything (other than weeds) to grow on again, but for any other purpose, it'd be less headache to just plow rock-salt into the ground.

On the other hand, black walnut hulls DO make reasonably decent fabric dye - depending on how "strong" the "tea" is made, you can get anything from yellow to deep green, and a nice, rich brown.
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So they could go along the fence line for long term weed killing maybe?
 
Let's not forget rag weed, wild hogs tear up my bottom ground every year digging for wild onions and that crap goes crazy in freshly disturbed ground. It's a twofer, rough ground is hell on my hay equipment and even the goats turn their noses at hay with too much of that crap.
 
OutFarming said:
Let's not forget rag weed, wild hogs tear up my bottom ground every year digging for wild onions and that crap goes crazy in freshly disturbed ground. It's a twofer, rough ground is hell on my hay equipment and even the goats turn their noses at hay with too much of that crap.
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Why can't miss piggy come to me, I want to blow her mind and make bacon! I got some lovely steel jacketed soft points.
 
OffgridK9lover said:
Why can't miss piggy come to me, I want to blow her mind and make bacon! I got some lovely steel jacketed soft points.
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I popped two one morning on my daily stroll with a pistol. I regularly kill 2-4 at a time with my AR, I've even shot them at night with a thermal scoped AR 10

I trap them, I let multiple guys hunt them with dogs, makes essentially no impact on the population, they just breed to fast and none of the neighbors do anything to control the population other than occasionally killing one for meat.

Gets to a point where there isn't room in the freezers. I sell the ones I trap to a high fenced canned "hunting ranch"
 
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OutFarming said:
I popped two one morning on my daily stroll with a pistol. I regularly kill 2-4 at a time with my AR, I've even shot them at night with a thermal scoped AR 10

I trap them, I let multiple guys hunt them with dogs, makes essentially no impact on the population, they just breed to fast and none of the neighbors do anything to control the population other than occasionally killing one for meat.

Gets to a point where there isn't room in the freezers. I sell the ones I trap to a high fenced canned "hunting ranch"
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When I get acreage I can hope, will deff be getting much as I can but out here the problem was over blown. some of our laws ensure the pigs will have zero issue breeding out of control. throughput got no issue given all the dogs.
 
sarahsingletono98 said:
View attachment 538270
Why save your own seeds or buy them from a local grower?
Bayer aka "Monsanto" owns over 50% of the worlds seed supply.
Chema-China is newer to the scene but the fastest growing
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Gotta use heritage strains and make your own hybrids. Corporate giants, and countries just do it faster. All the best tasting hybrids I've had have been developed by the average farmer.

A little activism goes a long way at a farmers market too.

Monsanto and China will intentionally "accidentally" cross pollinate to ruin a whole crop season for a mom and pop set up and just wait outside their land with lawyers and scientists. Be careful if you're even adjacent to corporate or Chinese owned land.
 
tsbbreirei said:
Gotta use heritage strains and make your own hybrids. Corporate giants, and countries just do it faster. All the best tasting hybrids I've had have been developed by the average farmer.

A little activism goes a long way at a farmers market too.

Monsanto and China will intentionally "accidentally" cross pollinate to ruin a whole crop season for a mom and pop set up and just wait outside their land with lawyers and scientists. Be careful if you're even adjacent to corporate or Chinese owned land.
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Given how much airable land is now owned by corps and China most of us who live in farm country probably have them in bee range.

It's utter bullshit anyway, if my bull gets out and breeds the neighbors cows it's my problem, courts treating engineered pollen different is idiotic.
 
OutFarming said:
Given how much airable land is now owned by corps and China most of us who live in farm country probably have them in bee range.

It's utter bullshit anyway, if my bull gets out and breeds the neighbors cows it's my problem, courts treating engineered pollen different is idiotic.
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And right there is the problem...

Pollination is kinda one of them "acts of God" sorta things when it happens outside in nature, and the fact that the courts don't see it that way should speak volumes to who their real masters are.
 
K_9River_rat said:
And right there is the problem...

Pollination is kinda one of them "acts of God" sorta things when it happens outside in nature, and the fact that the courts don't see it that way should speak volumes to who their real masters are.
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If they want to claim ownership of the seed because it has their genetics we should be able to counter sue for them damaging our crops.
 
tsbbreirei said:
Gotta use heritage strains and make your own hybrids. Corporate giants, and countries just do it faster. All the best tasting hybrids I've had have been developed by the average farmer.

A little activism goes a long way at a farmers market too.

Monsanto and China will intentionally "accidentally" cross pollinate to ruin a whole crop season for a mom and pop set up and just wait outside their land with lawyers and scientists. Be careful if you're even adjacent to corporate or Chinese owned land.
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en.wikipedia.org

Monsanto Canada Inc v Schmeiser - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Finally... Solo Farmer Fights Monsanto and Wins (homestead forum at permies)

Solo Farmer Fights Monsanto and Wins . The question is, where do Monsanto's rights end and mine begin?"
permies.com permies.com
 
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OffgridK9lover said:
Ideas to grow coffee in North American climate? or other citrus fruits?
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It's actually pretty easy just get as controlled an environment as possible specific to the species you're trying to grow. Most likely going to have to build a structure to insulate but a pvc plastic sheet structure can go a long way(about 3-5 years). Citrus like a slightly higher ph. I'm not versed in coffee plants tho.
 
One of the issues with growing quality coffee outside it's native range is allegedly elevation, mind you thats just what I read when I was looking into it but it makes sense.

As for citrus, look into how the Russians did it, they did covered pits, I want to do it in a sunken greenhouse, but I'm way way south of you.
 
OffgridK9lover said:
Ideas to grow coffee in North American climate? or other citrus fruits?
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Citrus: Move to Florida or California. The climate just "isn't there" anyplace else. You can grow the trees pretty much anyplace that ain't desert and doesn't freeze hard for more than a few days a year, but getting them to produce anything but leaves is pretty much a lost cause without 6+ months at a time of sunny, warm, and wet (whether rain or irrigation). Cali has the "sunny and warm", but without irrigation, forget it. If you get too far into "cold country", they won't survive the winter - We had some orange and lemon trees as landscaping in mid-Georgia when I was there, but according to locals, they'd never seen one produce a single orange or a lemon.

Coffee bushes/trees will grow just about anywhere that it doesn't hard-freeze, but like citrus, trying to get them to actually PRODUCE anything outside their usual range borders on being a lost cause.

S.M. Stirling's "Nantucket" series (Which starts with "Island in the Sea of Time") has the survivors of "The Event" (the population of the island of Nantucket) doing *VERY* small-scale (and based on characters describing it, absolutely shitty quality - bordering on "not fit to drink") coffee growing on the island starting from decorative coffee shrubs that existed there as imported, non-producing landscaping. Getting any production at all was insanely effort-intensive, for very little output, and required using a hothouse.

(Yes, the series is sci-fi/fantasy/alt-history, but Stirling actually does a pretty damned good job of "sticking to reality" - but with a twist. In this case, the twist being "The Event", which somehow transports the island and its occupants from 1998 to roughly 1250BC - aside from "The Event" and the developments that come of plopping a small slice of 20th century America into the year 1250, the vast majority of the story, including most, if not all, of the science and technology, is solidly based on reality)

I can't see any realistic chance that you could grow coffee where you're at - Too far north. Citrus, ditto. Outside of a hothouse, I don't see either one surviving past the first winter, let alone producing anything useful. (unless you're looking for firewood)
 
UR20Z said:
Citrus: Move to Florida or California. The climate just "isn't there" anyplace else. You can grow the trees pretty much anyplace that ain't desert and doesn't freeze hard for more than a few days a year, but getting them to produce anything but leaves is pretty much a lost cause without 6+ months at a time of sunny, warm, and wet (whether rain or irrigation). Cali has the "sunny and warm", but without irrigation, forget it. If you get too far into "cold country", they won't survive the winter - We had some orange and lemon trees as landscaping in mid-Georgia when I was there, but according to locals, they'd never seen one produce a single orange or a lemon.

Coffee bushes/trees will grow just about anywhere that it doesn't hard-freeze, but like citrus, trying to get them to actually PRODUCE anything outside their usual range borders on being a lost cause.

S.M. Stirling's "Nantucket" series (Which starts with "Island in the Sea of Time") has the survivors of "The Event" (the population of the island of Nantucket) doing *VERY* small-scale (and based on characters describing it, absolutely shitty quality - bordering on "not fit to drink") coffee growing on the island starting from decorative coffee shrubs that existed there as imported, non-producing landscaping. Getting any production at all was insanely effort-intensive, for very little output, and required using a hothouse.

(Yes, the series is sci-fi/fantasy/alt-history, but Stirling actually does a pretty damned good job of "sticking to reality" - but with a twist. In this case, the twist being "The Event", which somehow transports the island and its occupants from 1998 to roughly 1250BC - aside from "The Event" and the developments that come of plopping a small slice of 20th century America into the year 1250, the vast majority of the story, including most, if not all, of the science and technology, is solidly based on reality)

I can't see any realistic chance that you could grow coffee where you're at - Too far north. Citrus, ditto. Outside of a hothouse, I don't see either one surviving past the first winter, let alone producing anything useful. (unless you're looking for firewood)
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You really have to have very controlled environments for out of range plants. It's a fun process to artificially reproduce conditions. We have fruiting citrus at my job rn greenhouses are awesome and I bust ass. You can definitely do it. Organic Fertilizer and strict watering schedules go a long way when ambient temperature is no longer an issue as far as altitude I haven't the slightest.
 
UR20Z said:
Citrus: Move to Florida or California. The climate just "isn't there" anyplace else. You can grow the trees pretty much anyplace that ain't desert and doesn't freeze hard for more than a few days a year, but getting them to produce anything but leaves is pretty much a lost cause without 6+ months at a time of sunny, warm, and wet (whether rain or irrigation). Cali has the "sunny and warm", but without irrigation, forget it. If you get too far into "cold country", they won't survive the winter - We had some orange and lemon trees as landscaping in mid-Georgia when I was there, but according to locals, they'd never seen one produce a single orange or a lemon.

Coffee bushes/trees will grow just about anywhere that it doesn't hard-freeze, but like citrus, trying to get them to actually PRODUCE anything outside their usual range borders on being a lost cause.

S.M. Stirling's "Nantucket" series (Which starts with "Island in the Sea of Time") has the survivors of "The Event" (the population of the island of Nantucket) doing *VERY* small-scale (and based on characters describing it, absolutely shitty quality - bordering on "not fit to drink") coffee growing on the island starting from decorative coffee shrubs that existed there as imported, non-producing landscaping. Getting any production at all was insanely effort-intensive, for very little output, and required using a hothouse.

(Yes, the series is sci-fi/fantasy/alt-history, but Stirling actually does a pretty damned good job of "sticking to reality" - but with a twist. In this case, the twist being "The Event", which somehow transports the island and its occupants from 1998 to roughly 1250BC - aside from "The Event" and the developments that come of plopping a small slice of 20th century America into the year 1250, the vast majority of the story, including most, if not all, of the science and technology, is solidly based on reality)

I can't see any realistic chance that you could grow coffee where you're at - Too far north. Citrus, ditto. Outside of a hothouse, I don't see either one surviving past the first winter, let alone producing anything useful. (unless you're looking for firewood)
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If you're on the east Coast you can give yourself more berries than you could deal with. I'd be interested in having a greenhouse with plants that aren't in climate but provide awesome caloric content like quinoa or avocado

For anyone that isn't aware: Avocado, like apples do not grow true to seed. If you want a favorite fruit that doesn't grow true to seed you have to graft.
 
Here is an article on what I was talking about for extreme out of range orange production of citrus in Russia, you can match the soil and the temps on coffee but elevation you just can't fake and coffee plants care about that.

thesurvivalgardener.com

Russian Ingenuity: Growing Citrus FAR Beyond its Natural Range | The Survival Gardener

This is truly amazing – imagine growing citrus beneath a snow drift! Citrus fruits…
thesurvivalgardener.com

You can also do mini trees in doors and get occasional fruit. I've got some mango trees started and plan on doing a walipini to take a shot at them and citrus.
 
OutFarming said:
I popped two one morning on my daily stroll with a pistol. I regularly kill 2-4 at a time with my AR, I've even shot them at night with a thermal scoped AR 10

I trap them, I let multiple guys hunt them with dogs, makes essentially no impact on the population, they just breed to fast and none of the neighbors do anything to control the population other than occasionally killing one for meat.

Gets to a point where there isn't room in the freezers. I sell the ones I trap to a high fenced canned "hunting ranch"
Click to expand...
Sounds like you need some help from a long distance marksman with a good 100+ rounds
 
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