Cultural acceptance of bestiality is inevitable

[SpaceDragon]

But does that kind of argument hold up coming from a judge? "but that only counts if I agree with you."

 

[SigmaTheZeta]

But does that kind of argument hold up coming from a judge? "but that only counts if I agree with you."

They do that, but they are very good at making words to the same effect sound legit. The problem is that sometimes people that actually do have greater intelligence than you and deeper life experience than you and overall noble intentions can have days when their moral decency goes out to lunch, and when they put their minds to being obnoxious punks, they are very good at it.

 

[SpaceDragon]

They do that, but they are very good at making words to the same effect sound legit. The problem is that sometimes people that actually do have greater intelligence than you snd deeper life experience than you and overall noble intentions can have days when their moral decency goes out to lunch, and when they put their minds to being obnoxious punks, they are very good at it.

Then we need lawyers and people from these organizations who are just as smart/experienced/noble to make our case to judges in cases like this that our constitutional rights matter too. We don't even have to fight for our right to be intimate with our non-human companions, we only need to demand that evidence is presented that a crime was committed instead of depending on baseless accusations for there to be punishment, and to defend the rights of people to not be harassed/bullied and spied on.

 

[Pillar]

Then we need lawyers and people from these organizations who are just as smart/experienced/noble to make our case to judges in cases like this that our constitutional rights matter too.

As long as you have enough money in your pocket you can buy as much as you want. I doubt we got millionaires on Zooville though. Much less ones willing to spend their entire fortunes on that.

 

[SpaceDragon]

As long as you have enough money in your pocket you can buy as much as you want. I doubt we got millionaires on Zooville though. Much less ones willing to spend their entire fortunes on that.

Shouldn't organizations that protect peoples' privacy and due process rights provide enough funds to make a solid case? If there are actually real organizations like that out there that is.

 

[Pillar]

Shouldn't organizations that protect peoples' privacy and due process rights provide enough funds to make a solid case? If there are actually real organizations out there that is.

I have heard of some that exist. But I have no idea if they'd take up zoo rights.

 

[caikgoch]

@SpaceDragon

For the same reason that we have organizations that defend people's freedom of speech, but there are still people in power that say, "but that only counts if I agree with you." It is not easy to stand up for those rights, and it is far too easy for people to fall into the trap of thinking they can make exceptions, then another, then another. It is a hard fight.

A representative of the ACLU once told me that sexual deviants weren't deserving of their help.

 

[SpaceDragon]

A representative of the ACLU once told me that sexual deviants weren't deserving of their help.

Well, then it looks like that representative was going against the mission of their organization. On their home page:

"The ACLU’s mission remains realizing the promise of the Bill of Rights for all and expanding the reach of its guarantees. Beyond one person, party, or side — the ACLU dares to create a more perfect union."

So it seems to me that our goal is to come together with allies and reach out to organizations like these to demand that they offer their protections to us as part of their promise of equal protection for all.

 

[Pillar]

Well, then it looks like that representative was going against the mission of their organization.

On their home page:

"The ACLU’s mission remains realizing the promise of the Bill of Rights for all and expanding the reach of its guarantees. Beyond one person, party, or side — the ACLU dares to create a more perfect union."

You got to remember there is no shortage of people (albeit misinformed) who think of bestiality as animal abuse. In the minds of some of those "representative" people this crowd might be viewed as animal abusers (when that's the last thing a zoophile/bestialist is).

 

[caikgoch]

Well, then it looks like that representative was going against the mission of their organization.

On their home page:

"The ACLU’s mission remains realizing the promise of the Bill of Rights for all and expanding the reach of its guarantees. Beyond one person, party, or side — the ACLU dares to create a more perfect union."

I agree with you but they seem to think like the majority, that you can pick and choose who deserves which rights.

 

[Wolf2]

It's not here yet. But it's coming. It has to. Why was it ever considered wrong?

I think like all taboos, it's rooted in an presumption that a penis and vagina should be considered more than body parts. Otherwise, why would there be anything remarkable about enjoying these rapturously pleasureful parts, even interspecies sexual play? That, and a twisted notion of what constitutes "abuse."

Remember that masturbation was for a spell called "self abuse." Doesn't that sound strange today? It's pretty much accepted now as neither here nor there morally.

Now it's, "It's *your* penis/vagina/anus... go have fun. *We* don't care what you do with it. (but send pics, please?)." LOL

Peeling back layer after layer of sexual taboo "add ons," I think we're inevitably heading for the time when all adult/adult sexual activity is no big deal. Slowly, layer by layer, the sexual taboos are peeling away.

Each layer of taboo focused solely on who does what with whose penis or vagina, and it eventually fell. Each time it was because people realized, "Know what? We're focusing totally on the penis or vagina? We need to let that go."

Do we have any reason left to consider a penis as more sacred -- or more evil -- than your finger or your nose? Isn't a vagina simply another body orifice, part of an interesting landscape we call the vulva? How did it become otherwise for our species? What was that point in the history that changed so much how we looked at these specific organs of the human body? Oh well, we're heading back to it. Finally.

But it's a slow trend, undoing sexual taboos one at a time.

When we've finally gotten to the point where people no longer consider the penis/vagina/anus themselves to be "naughty bits," animal penises/vaginas/anuses will no longer be naughty bits as well. Patting a dog on the head or humping it, just depends on your inclination at that moment.

I think if that's it, then this one will, too -- in spite of a current trend to make it illegal in more states and countries. Maybe *because* of that recent trend, which brings more attention to how bizarre that is, given what's happened to other taboos.

Just a matter of time.

I wish I shared your optimism. Unfortunately, we are still having a hard time gettin even just LGBTs accepted still. It’s an uphill battle, and we might still lose to the religious right that seems intent on shoving their religious morality down everyone’s throats. They fear what they don’t understand, and despise true personal freedom.

Zoophilia however lands in a different boat. Zoophilia often gets compared to pedophilia. However, unlike with pedophilia, where there is even proven psychological and physical damage, zoophilia (when done right) doesn’t cause any of this.

I would actually like to see studies done on whether female dogs actually enjoy sex, if male dogs do as well. We only assume they enjoy it, maybe it actually hurts and they do it anyway. No one has put an MRI scanner on a dog and then asked it mate. That’s not a field of science anyone is willing to broach.

So in some cases we actually don’t know for certain that zoophilia is a harmless activity. But there should still be room to argue that it can be performed in a manner congruent with animal welfare, and that if so, it should be legal.

 

[SpaceDragon]

You got to remember there is no shortage of people (albeit misinformed) who think of bestiality as animal abuse. In the minds of some of those "representative" people this crowd might be viewed as animal abusers (when that's the last thing a zoophile/bestialist is).

We don't have to make them change their minds, we only have to make them follow their own rules which make them protect the rights of all people. So if one representative won't listen, we go to another, then another, then another, and if needed we go to their leadership as well. And if they still won't listen we go to other organizations, and if they won't listen then we start our own. Whatever we do we must keep trying more and new things and not let our losses defeat us.

 

[Pillar]

I wish I shared your optimism. Unfortunately, we are still having a hard time gettin even just LGBTs accepted still. It’s an uphill battle, and we might still lose to the religious right that seems intent on shoving their religious morality down everyone’s throats. They fear what they don’t understand, and despise true personal freedom.

Zoophilia however lands in a different boat. Zoophilia often gets compared to pedophilia. However, unlike with pedophilia, where there is even proven psychological and physical damage, zoophilia (when done right) doesn’t cause any of this.

I would actually like to see studies done on whether female dogs actually enjoy sex, if male dogs do as well. We only assume they enjoy it, maybe it actually hurts and they do it anyway. No one has put an MRI scanner on a dog and then asked it mate. That’s not a field of science anyone is willing to broach.

So in some cases we actually don’t know for certain that zoophilia is a harmless activity. But there should still be room to argue that it can be performed in a manner congruent with animal welfare, and that if so, it should be legal.

You should be able to tell by the animal's behaviors and body language. If a bitch (female dog) is happily panting and pushing your cock into her pussy it's a safe bet she wants it. Same with mares.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Germany has bestiality legal while keeping zoosadism/animal abuse illegal. Basically you can have sex with your animals as long as they are consensual and willing participants to it.

 

[SpaceDragon]

I think right now, we as a community need to decide which short term goal to pursue and actively pursue it. There are a giant number of things we can try, so amidst all this debate of what to do we need to pick something and do it. I think we can start with the ACLU, if they don't listen then we remind them of their promise to protect the constitutional rights of all humans. If we don't think it will work, that's fine, but we owe it to our community to try and never give up.

 

[SpaceDragon]

I wish I shared your optimism. Unfortunately, we are still having a hard time gettin even just LGBTs accepted still. It’s an uphill battle, and we might still lose to the religious right that seems intent on shoving their religious morality down everyone’s throats. They fear what they don’t understand, and despise true personal freedom.

Zoophilia however lands in a different boat. Zoophilia often gets compared to pedophilia. However, unlike with pedophilia, where there is even proven psychological and physical damage, zoophilia (when done right) doesn’t cause any of this.

I would actually like to see studies done on whether female dogs actually enjoy sex, if male dogs do as well. We only assume they enjoy it, maybe it actually hurts and they do it anyway. No one has put an MRI scanner on a dog and then asked it mate. That’s not a field of science anyone is willing to broach.

So in some cases we actually don’t know for certain that zoophilia is a harmless activity. But there should still be room to argue that it can be performed in a manner congruent with animal welfare, and that if so, it should be legal.

I'm not at all scared of religious fundamentalists, people nowadays know that "because god" is a pretty dumb argument.

When it comes to convincing people that dogs and other animals can feel pleasure and can consent, there are already some studies done on that showing they can, but we need more, and I think we need to rely on sexologists and animal behaviorists to make these arguments because they can do so with credibility in a professional, non-creepy manner and with evidence to back it up. We need to come together as a community and fund these kinds of studies into animal pleasure, sexual behavior, cognizance and consent, and even studies into how an animal can have sex with a human safely, pleasurably, and consensually through demonstration, and once they are done we need to circulate them around where ever we can. When we do this, we can show people with evidence that human/animal sex is not as abusive and non-consensual as they thought.

 

[TogglesHappyZoo]

I think one of our first goals as a community should be to clean up our image in the wider society, where ever the public can see us they should see otherwise decent law-abiding people who are not a threat to society and are not creepy sex freaks. One small way I wonder if we can do this is I've noticed that there are profile pics here that are sexual in nature, many of which are literally pictures of genitals. I think making those kind of profile pics against the rules could make non-zoos that visit this forum less inclined to see us as sex obsessed in addition to already thinking we are creepy, therefor making us appear to be the kind of normal people that we want to be seen as.

Personally I have no problem whatsoever with sexual/nude pics like that and I think those things shouldn't be taboo, but this is more about improving our image among non-zoos than doing only what makes us comfortable, and I think this forum can be a big first step into bringing our community into public view and contemplation.

I hesitate here. Purity politics in furry to appease the normies has led to a sort of disparaging of the sexual aspects of that community by those who are overly concerned with public appearance. Similarly, there’s a weird thing in gay culture where pride is supposed to be cleansed of anything sexual... when it’s a culture based around sexuality. I hesitate to try to whitewash away the sexual aspect of our sexuality as a matter of PR.

Granted, perhaps icons of horse dicks are somewhat in poor taste, but trying to frame our narrative of ourselves in nonsexual terms is a path I feel leads to disparaging those of us who celebrate the sexual aspects of who we are.

 

[TogglesHappyZoo]

One more issue I'd like to raise is that I believe in the rules section it states that people younger than 18 are not allowed here (I could be wrong). I understand that it is not something that a decent/normal website would do to allow minors onto their site if it contains any kind of pornographic material, and we should try to follow this general rule to keep our image clean, but shouldn't there be some kind of compromise we could make such as keeping all the pornographic (and maybe even how-to sex) stuff restricted to a section that only members 18 or older can go? I think this is important to address because there are zoos out there who happen to be minors who are also in need of some kind of community and social acceptance and who would like to make even just online friends with other zoos like them. Making a safe and appropriate place for zoo minors to feel welcome could go a long way to saving lives and increasing happiness and self-esteem and confidence in those who feel isolated and even help to expand our community.

This is indeed something important we need to figure out, but speaking to youth about having sex with animals is probably a bit dangerous for adult zoos to engage in at this time. Accusations of child grooming are difficult to reckon with.

That said, creating a youth safe space with some kind of mentorship is definitely a future goal. How to do it without crossing boundaries is kind of difficult for me to imagine, but perhaps someone with experience speaking to LGBT youth could give us some insight as to how this is done.

 

[SpaceDragon]

I hesitate here. Purity politics in furry to appease the normies has led to a sort of disparaging of the sexual aspects of that community by those who are overly concerned with public appearance. Similarly, there’s a weird thing in gay culture where pride is supposed to be cleansed of anything sexual... when it’s a culture based around sexuality. I hesitate to try to whitewash away the sexual aspect of our sexuality as a matter of PR.

Granted, perhaps icons of horse dicks are somewhat in poor taste, but trying to frame our narrative of ourselves in nonsexual terms is a path I feel leads to disparaging those of us who celebrate the sexual aspects of who we are.

I understand where you're coming from, and trust me I'm not trying to censor sexual conversation or porn related things from the site, I'm specifically talking about profile pics here. When a user joins the forum and looks at a thread, the first thing they see besides walls of text (which you need to read to understand) are the profile pics that people use. Non-zoos who find the forum and are curious what our deal is and most of the time already have bad feelings about us will notice the profile pictures we use before anything else and that will be their first impression of us. If the first thing they see is a dude's dick and balls or someone's butt or at worst for them an animal's genitals or human/animal sex (which they're already disgusted by) they may very well turn tail and run because they didn't come here for the porn, they came here to find out what kind of people we are and how we think about things. This should be important to us in our effort to change minds or even just get people thinking or even just see that despite our sexual orientation we are otherwise decent people.

Us zoos will still have the porn section and the erotica section anytime we want to use it, and non-zoos will see those labeled sections and know well enough to avoid them, and we will still be free to discuss sexuality and sexual experiences and how-to's etc, etc. And if we ever want to show anyone our sexy bits or the sexy bits of our non-human lovers or both at the same time, we're free to ask their permission and send it to them in private, or post our sexy pics in a dedicated and labeled section for all to see. I'm only suggesting that we keep our profile pics a bit more clean so that the non-zoos who DO come here are not immediately turned away by something that makes their stomach turn, robbing them of the opportunity to learn something about us in reading or conversation they did not previously know.

 

[SpaceDragon]

This is indeed something important we need to figure out, but speaking to youth about having sex with animals is probably a bit dangerous for adult zoos to engage in at this time. Accusations of child grooming are difficult to reckon with.

That said, creating a youth safe space with some kind of mentorship is definitely a future goal. How to do it without crossing boundaries is kind of difficult for me to imagine, but perhaps someone with experience speaking to LGBT youth could give us some insight as to how this is done.

We don't need to allow them access to anything pornographic or erotic, and we don't need to give them how-to advice or engage in any sexually focused discussion with them, those things can be made against the rules and members who are younger than 18 can be restricted access to the more sexual parts of the site.

I agree though we need to have a much deeper discussion about how to do this safely and legally, and we need to learn from sites dedicated to providing safe and supportive spaces for LGBT youth to feel welcome and socialize.

 

[SigmaTheZeta]

I hesitate here. Purity politics in furry to appease the normies has led to a sort of disparaging of the sexual aspects of that community by those who are overly concerned with public appearance.

But I also am concerned about public appearance, just a different aspect of it, bullying and the concomitant bad behavior that comes with letting it run wild. People that don't care at all what happens to us furs call it "drama," but it is time for us furs to face and start addressing the reality of bullying in our community and stop using the term "drama" when one person bullying another is not drama. "Drama" implies that one party is as contemptible as the other, but I reject that kind of victim-blaming language. It is bullying, and we should stop calling it anything else.

Thuggish youth bullying a young person due to some obscure sexual idiosyncrasy is not something that I am okay with. I am at an age where I don't think that the best thing to encourage in young people is an "anything goes" or "soaked furs" concept of furry, but instead, I am more interested in directly dealing with the bullying problem. My entire motive for caring about this was initiated by watching a highly sensitive, clearly intelligent teenager being bullied ruthlessly just because he was in love with his husky bitch, and this was not recent. This was years ago, and that one incident still sticks in my craw.

Those were some vicious punks that knew they had a victim they could do whatever they wanted with. All these purity politics ultimately do is provide prey for people whose only joy in life is this kind of antisocial behavior. I think the same kinds of punks are also the ones bringing drugs into the conventions if you want my guess.

Quiz question: What happens when you normalize bullying and violence and general thuggishness in your community?

Click this link below to reveal!

Drug addiction takes its toll in furry fandom

www.flayrah.com

All you do, by creating a harsh conformist atmosphere, is create in people a dysfunctional desperation to try to fit in, and I am betting there is already research available that would demonstrate that that connects directly with drug-seeking behavior.


Maybe us zoos could talk [adjective] [species] into looking into the connection between bullying, including anti-zooey bullying, and the drug epidemic in the furry fandom. I think that if that guy could be convinced that this deserves his knowledge and resources, then we would have a powerful ally on our side that people have listened to already in the past.

If you want to talk to that guy [adjective] [species], then I have three key terms for you:

Cloninger
Reward dependence
Conformism

Cloninger has already got a lot of research linking conformism with opioid dependence, and when you drive all the non-conformist status quo questioning thinkers out of your community, then you really don't deserve for anyone to feel sorry for you when you end up with a drug epidemic. There is already documented evidence that conformist thinking is linked with drug epidemics.

The purity politics (ie bullying) that have been going on in the furry community have a hell of a lot to do with it.

Similarly, there’s a weird thing in gay culture where pride is supposed to be cleansed of anything sexual... when it’s a culture based around sexuality. I hesitate to try to whitewash away the sexual aspect of our sexuality as a matter of PR.

Granted, perhaps icons of horse dicks are somewhat in poor taste, but trying to frame our narrative of ourselves in nonsexual terms is a path I feel leads to disparaging those of us who celebrate the sexual aspects of who we are.

I would not say cleansed, but I think that more humorous material can be an example of how sexuality ITSELF can be treated as something besides just sexual, such as a source of cheeky adult humor, which I see as one of the healthiest ways that we can handle the topic of sexuality. People that have sex do not always have boners, and sometimes, they don't even have boners when they are thinking about sex. They are laughing too hard. Also, an audience that is roaring with laughter is a pretty useful way to get haters to know they've really been outvoted and outclassed, and they just previously didn't realize it.

 

[SpaceDragon]

I think one of our first goals as a community should be to clean up our image in the wider society, where ever the public can see us they should see otherwise decent law-abiding people who are not a threat to society and are not creepy sex freaks. One small way I wonder if we can do this is I've noticed that there are profile pics here that are sexual in nature, many of which are literally pictures of genitals. I think making those kind of profile pics against the rules could make non-zoos that visit this forum less inclined to see us as sex obsessed in addition to already thinking we are creepy, therefor making us appear to be the kind of normal people that we want to be seen as.

Personally I have no problem whatsoever with sexual/nude pics like that and I think those things shouldn't be taboo, but this is more about improving our image among non-zoos than doing only what makes us comfortable, and I think this forum can be a big first step into bringing our community into public view and contemplation.

I created a poll about this.

 

[Andriodog]

One of the things that can be done is more education into critter emotions and cognation. Many of use still stratch the surface when it comes to how we think of the emotional lives of critters.

We cant expect folks to separate us apart from the abusers when they themselves still dont know critter body language and enegry.

I still stand by my doubts about zoo being fully accepted by society at least in our lifetimes anyways. At the very least, more digging into animal emotional lives and behaviors is a start.

 

[SpaceDragon]

I would not say cleansed, but I think that material like Pepper Coyote's song, "There's No Cock Like Horse Cock" is an example of how sexuality ITSELF can be treated as something besides just sexual, such as a source of cheeky adult humor, which I see as one of the healthiest ways that we can handle the topic of sexuality. People that have sex do not always have boners, and sometimes, they don't even have boners when they are thinking about sex. They are laughing too hard. Also, an audience that is roaring with laughter is a pretty useful way to get haters to know they've really been outvoted and outclassed, and they just previously didn't realize it.

I absolutely agree about the humor part being healthy, but... I don't see anything humorous about a picture of someone's dick and balls. I don't have a problem with it personally, I just don't find it funny, and I don't think it's intended to be funny either.

 

[SpaceDragon]

One of the things that can be done is more education into critter emotions and cognation. Many of use still stratch the surface when it comes to how we think of the emotional lives of critters.

We cant expect folks to separate us apart from the abusers when they themselves still dont know critter body language and enegry.

I still stand by my doubts about zoo being fully accepted by society at least in our lifetimes anyways. At the very least, more digging into animal emotional lives and behaviors is a start.

I agree, I think one of our more important goals should be to raise funds for studies on animal sexual behavior/pleasure as well as animal emotion/cognizance and ability to consent. And as far as acceptance goes, just think of this, many of the people who lived during the 1950s and 1960s when homosexuality was hated by the majority of society 60 to 70 years ago are alive today. They're pretty old, but they lived to witness dramatic change in society.

 

[SigmaTheZeta]

I absolutely agree about the humor part being healthy, but... I don't see anything humorous about a picture of someone's dick and balls. I don't have a problem with it personally, I just don't find it funny, and I don't think it's intended to be funny either.

Then what other ways can one talk about it that don't involve having a dripping wet boner?

It's not just humor, but humor is just one complex secondary emotion. There are many of them. Some of them are positive. Some of them are negative. Some of them are neutral. Some of them are mixed positive and negative.

We could also adopt the [adjective] [species] approach of "Why don't we try examining this under the lens of science!" That is just as valuable as humor. Just like humor, it puts sexuality in a context that lights up the parts of our brains that can understand nuance and more sophisticated multilayered concepts.

 

[SpaceDragon]

Then what other ways can one talk about it that don't involve having a dripping wet boner?

It's not just humor, but humor is just one complex secondary emotion. There are many of them. Some of them are positive. Some of them are negative. Some of them are neutral. Some of them are mixed positive and negative.

We could also adopt the [adjective] [species] approach of "Why don't we try examining this under the lens of science!" That is just as valuable as humor. Just like humor, it puts sexuality in a context that lights up the parts of our brains that can understand nuance and more sophisticated multilayered concepts.

I think humor and science are great contexts to discuss sexuality, I was just saying I don't see a NSFW profile pic on a forum to be humorous or intended that way, like there's no context with it to suggest anything humorous, just straight up dick and balls in your face.

 

[SigmaTheZeta]

I agree, I think one of our more important goals should be to raise funds for studies on animal sexual behavior/pleasure as well as animal emotion/cognizance and ability to consent. And as far as acceptance goes, just think of this, many of the people who lived during the 1950s and 1960s when homosexuality was hated by the majority of society 60 to 70 years ago are alive today. They're pretty old, but they lived to witness dramatic change in society.

Well, if you look under the articles and blogs tab, you can find existing research there, and I am thinking that some of us ought to get serious about looking through those articles and finding out about where the research is being done and who is funding it. If we could get together a constellation of determined donors for a big grant, then I am of the thinking that we could eventually tip people that have already stuck their necks out enough to study animal sex into trying to make a follow-up study.

We could bill it as something prosocial, which we are really TRYING to do, anyway, just without even going into tactics, we could just point out that we are trying to get documented science into the hands of sexologists, counselors, and therapists that just might save the lives of one of their clients. If we just say the real reasons why we think that funding this is important, then I think we could get one of these institutions that have already conducted research on animal sex to let us back up a grant for taking a closer look at it and creating something useful and applicable for the professionals that are supposed to be there to help us when we are at our weakest.

@SpaceDragon I have been thinking about what I was talking with you about, the idea of using the medicinal marijuana movement's approach, and what if we could prove that animal sex can relieve some of the symptoms of social anxiety or autism? We already know that pet therapy helps people with those disorders, and if we could get some really good documented research out there, I think that it would be possible to get some patients in states like California some clearance to have sexual relationships with their animals as long as they are under the supervision of a licensed sexologist and veterinarian. This could create a similar path to legalization as was used for marijuana.

 

[SpaceDragon]

Well, if you look under the articles and blogs tab, you can find existing research there, and I am thinking that some of us ought to get serious about looking through those articles and finding out about where the research is being done and who is funding it. If we could get together a constellation of determined donors for a big grant, then I am of the thinking that we could eventually tip people that have already stuck their necks out enough to study animal sex into trying to make a follow-up study.

We could bill it as something prosocial, which we are really TRYING to do, anyway, just without even going into tactics, we could just point out that we are trying to get documented science into the hands of sexologists, counselors, and therapists that just might save the lives of one of their clients. If we just say the real reasons why we think that funding this is important, then I think we could get one of these institutions that have already conducted research on animal sex to let us back up a grant for taking a closer look at it and creating something useful and applicable for the professionals that are supposed to be there to help us when we are at our weakest.

@SpaceDragon I have been thinking about what I was talking with you about, the idea of using the medicinal marijuana movement's approach, and what if we could prove that animal sex can relieve some of the symptoms of social anxiety or autism? We already know that pet therapy helps people with those disorders, and if we could get some really good documented research out there, I think that it would be possible to get some patients in states like California some clearance to have sexual relationships with their animals as long as they are under the supervision of a licensed sexologist and veterinarian. This could create a similar path to legalization as was used for marijuana.

I think that's an excellent idea! And I would definitely help fund a grant like that if I had financial independence. We should get started on this as soon as possible honestly as I think this is really one of our most important goals. We really need a lot more research done in these things so we can educate people and add some credibility and evidence to our side, and I don't think we should stop with just one study either, we should get as many as we can.

 

[SigmaTheZeta]

I think that's an excellent idea! And I would definitely help fund a grant like that if I had financial independence. We should get started on this as soon as possible honestly as I think this is really one of our most important goals. We really need a lot more research done in these things so we can educate people and add some credibility and evidence to our side, and I don't think we should stop with just one study either, we should get as many as we can.

@ZTHorse has been pushing for getting funding into research for quite a long time. If you want, then you can help me go through some of these articles and find information about the research, including what agencies funded it and everyone else that was behind it. The acknowledgements sections of research papers tend to have very important information about how the work actually got from the idea stage to the laboratory.

 

[SigmaTheZeta]

Okay, class example, if you look in Earls, C. & Lalumière, M. (2002). A Case Study of Preferential Bestiality (Zoophilia) specifically in the acknowledgements section, then you will see that these people used grant money from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council Standard Research Grant awarded to M.L.L.. Well, we have this information, now. We know that the people that control where that grant money goes are not afraid to take a closer look at people that have sex with animals, and I just looked them up:

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www.sshrc-crsh.gc.ca

There is always money behind all of this research. We know that this is an important organization in Canada, and somehow, the people that wanted to get this research done navigated their way from wanting to take a closer look at it to actually getting access to the grant. If we could talk to a psychiatry researcher at any university, we could point out that this organization has already shown they are willing to fund research on this specific subject because it is right there in the acknowledgements: they have done it. This is real research that has gotten grant funding that is actually happening in the past fifteen years. Researchers should stop being shy about it.