"We" find the defendant "guilty". ("We" being just me.
)
)
Beastman666
Tourist
Beastilality would never be fully embraced as a form of sexuality by the masses as people out there have compared zoophilia on the same level of pedophilia arguing that fully grown adults take advantage over other living beings that don't understand what exactly your doing with them, and don't completely know what is right and what is wrong, but that's my opinion where I believe animals have feelings like ours but not as complicated and would love and hate you like an adult would
The masses act out of total ignorance. I've already said this on another post, but an animal will let you know when he or she consents. Here's a good example: try forcing yourself on to a mare and watch how quickly you'll end up in the hospital after she kicks you. But when she wants to get fucked she won't stop backing into you. Bitches (female dogs) are similar. When they're not interested they'll walk away, and if you insist, she'll bite (or whimper/whine if she doesn't bite). When she is interested she will also back into you. Animals show consent through actions.
Edit: Male animals are the same way when it comes to consent as the females. When they want to fuck they'll obviously have hard ons and try to mount. When they're not interested they just move away.
SigmaTheZeta
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
@Beastman666
I agree that the feelings of animals are really the same feelings as ours. Our limbic systems work based on more-or-less the same plumbing. I also believe that an adult is an adult, regardless of species.
I agree that the feelings of animals are really the same feelings as ours. Our limbic systems work based on more-or-less the same plumbing. I also believe that an adult is an adult, regardless of species.
A
Andriodog
Guest
@SigmatoZeta Perhaps i should had chosen my words better. I was only trying to see things the way they are because of my pressemsic mindset about certain things is all. It the way ya came at me is what I didnt like. Ya bascally accuse me of being things that i not and you dont even know me.
Tgzoogirl
BANNED
If they really cared about animals and abuse they wouldn't focus on us who love animals. They'd focus on getting rid of slaughter houses.
They focus on the sexual aspects because sex is still seen as shameful by the overwhelming majority of people. It takes a strong person to be able to accept themselves and like what they like.
SigmaTheZeta
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
At this point, it is going to get worse and more dangerous, regardless of what we do. Engaging in carefully targeted diplomatic maneuvering just might prevent some of us from getting hunted down and killed.
If you want to know the level of "totally fucked" that cowardice and hiding from a problem can get us into, then I urge you to try watching the Sundance documentary Welcome to Chechnya.
By "We have to do something," I do not really mean "We can make things a whole lot better!" but instead, what I mean is something more like, "Regardless of what we do, we are fucked, but if we do nothing, then we are even more fucked." For a concept of what "more fucked" looks like, then watch Welcome to Chechnya.
A little bit of public advocacy might slow down the mob hysteria just enough that slightly fewer of us will get killed. Right now, that is our situation.
That is what @TogglesHappyZoo and others are trying to work on trying to arrange for us with their show, and it is partly what we are trying to arrange here just by talking normally among ourselves on this very forum.
You are engaging in activism just by making productive and friendly conversation here because, thanks to you just doing something as simple as making friendly conversation and coming across as a decent human being, eventually, some stupid teenage idiot's mom is going to catch him with a dog's knot up his ass in his bedroom, and she will read your conversation and recognize, even though maybe she doesn't approve of him molesting the family dog that really belongs to her and not to him, she doesn't really have to send him to conversion therapy or to a mental hospital. Stuff happens to people that are young and have very bad judgment. People in their lives naturally want to know if they might be mentally deranged.
It might not feel or look like it's making a difference that you just chat on here, but it's making a difference. It does not look very glamorous, but most genuinely productive things that you will ever do don't. We are among the few references that people have anywhere, besides that really terrifying documentary about Mr. Hands.
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When an animal is slaughtered, they don't understand what is happening to them. When an animal is spayed/neutered, the animal doesn't understand what is being done to them (also applies to artificial insemination). So this argument that the "masses" use isn't a good one.
(By the way, I'm against slaughter and spaying/neutering).
A
Andriodog
Guest
@SigmatoZeta But here is the thing though. What foundation do we as zoos have to stand on? I could go into stuff but i run the risk of deraling the thread.
SigmaTheZeta
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Let's work on getting people to agree we should be allowed to fuck our pets later.
Right now, we are lucky if people are inclined to recognize that we are otherwise rational, intelligent adults and actually think about what we are doing and are not really dangerous to anybody else or their property.
You can't prove that by talking about it directly, but you have to demonstrate it by how you behave and talk about everything in your life, but if we can get people to see that, then we might have a lower chance of someone getting murdered by a violent paranoid mob.
Predlov
Zooville Settler
"Zoophilia was once part of daily human life for many eons. It is simply unfortunate it has been condemned by authority of organized religion over the last 3000 years. Because of it being accepted for a much longer period of time than condemned, it will once again be accepted by the human race. Humans simply have to get over their own sexual immaturity and insecurities." My Dad
R
RoughFucker40
Guest
Unfortunately the only “zoos” who get any exposure are zoosadists, that babbling retard known as Aluzky who single handedly ruined the zoo community on Reddit and Whitney Wisconsin who isn’t even a zoo(and started making videos again) but quite a few zoos were quick to rally to her defense.
So if anyone is wondering why we’re saying we won’t get exposure or rights, this shit right here is why.
So if anyone is wondering why we’re saying we won’t get exposure or rights, this shit right here is why.
Predlov
Zooville Settler
Don't forget the other two from the old zoo community in the 90s. Zoobuster and that dimwit who went on Jerry Springer with his pony LOL
ikanon
Citizen of Zooville
It is not coming. it is going. Prejudicing, iknowbetter, what I believe is fact because I myself believe it- all this grows easily in social medias. Could our kind of people actually bear an acceptance and legality of bestiality? I think most of us would then think that any animal anywhere is for free use. What have we tried to gain acceptance? Oh I forgot the one and only Fausty who tried to promote acceptance, strange enough most of his appearences on the stage caused new bans and legislations. Some may consider him a hero because he bought himself a lot of friends with free porn and access to animals. That is not something the world outside considers heroship, not least considering his somewhat doubyful financing options.
Yes, it is a matter of time. A very long time, often referred to as eternity.
Why the pessimism?
Wrongkindoflove
Tourist
I don't think I'll see it I'm my life time there would need to be people advocating for us and probably some sort of mass protest and I don't think we could get that many of us in each part of our countries all at once to succeed, but I sure would like to not have to hide.
Predlov
Zooville Settler
The pessimism exists because the current society that exists today is driven too much by fear to do anything about it. This society of comfotable fear is comprised of two primary groups. One group lives in fear of loosing everything within the life they have built. The other group lives in fear of loosing all its perks and comforts it reaps by supporting the promoters of this fear.
Wrongkindoflove
Tourist
So what could be done about this? Losing everything you have ever worked for is still a valid reason to sit it out, but there's got to be another way to have activism instead of doing nothing at all.
Predlov
Zooville Settler
People have to change how they perceive their own existence by resetting how they assess their own personal worth. Next the people have to realize that they and they alone are responsible for their path in life and how much the surrounding world affects this chosen path. People are responsible for their own destiny. People have spent centuries struggling in the shadow of this persistent and suffocating notion that so long as it supplicates its existence on bent knees to an overseer authority, then all it needs to do is simply focus on its own private corner of existence and not worry about the consequences of the actions any given person takes to make their own life more convenient.
These same tragic trapped people believe the propaganda circulated by this overseer authority, that encourages them to concern themselves with problems that exist on a bigger scale than their own private existence. They are assured that the problem is already resolved and anticipated, regardless of its nature or threat level.
People need to stop this. They need to take back control of their own destiny and ignore the threats of eternal turmoil that will be cursed upon their own soul for defying this overseer authority in their lives. Absolutely no entity in existence has that kind of power. No one. Once people have regained this control, they will suddenly find themselves no longer living in fear of a superior untouchable authority. They will no longer be motivated to take actions that harm people like us, out of fear of loosing everything. People will begin to think for themselves again.
These same tragic trapped people believe the propaganda circulated by this overseer authority, that encourages them to concern themselves with problems that exist on a bigger scale than their own private existence. They are assured that the problem is already resolved and anticipated, regardless of its nature or threat level.
People need to stop this. They need to take back control of their own destiny and ignore the threats of eternal turmoil that will be cursed upon their own soul for defying this overseer authority in their lives. Absolutely no entity in existence has that kind of power. No one. Once people have regained this control, they will suddenly find themselves no longer living in fear of a superior untouchable authority. They will no longer be motivated to take actions that harm people like us, out of fear of loosing everything. People will begin to think for themselves again.
Try dumbing it down about two notches, your prowess in English is way above mine.
B
BlueBeard
Guest
Naw. Look around. See the historic trend. The more attention something gets, the more attention it gets. And that triggers a social norm.
Who were the two greatest handgun salesmen of the past 50 years? Clinton and Obama. In fact, in our gun shop there was an 8X10 picture of Obama on a plaque that was inscribed: "Salesman of the year." People who had no interest at all in guns were running out to buy them in droves. With Trump in office? Sales kind of died. Obama did that stupid ammo buyout gimmick, all it did was raise the price of ammo, cause mass hoarding with some folks stockpiling 10s of thousands of rounds, and lots of foreign nations making money selling ammo to the U.S. Me? I walked across the border up to Canada. They didn't even know there was a shortage. They'd scratch their heads. It's all U.S. factory ammo, Winchester, Federal, American Eagle, Remington -- what do you mean you can't find it in the U.S.
I just smiled and said, "Obama."
"Oh. Right, right." And then, "Cheers!" as they rang up the sale.
With all the attention the "gun debate" has gotten over the years, we've lost the Brady Bill (it had no effect on crime and was allowed to die per sunset rules). We are finally getting people to realize the AR15 is "not" an "assault rifle," its just a semi-auto rifle with really nice shooting characteristics (I know: Clinton era coined a new term "assault weapon," which didn't exist before that and has dubious descriptors/qualifications yet today. Assault rifle is still an erroneous appellation for the AR15).
And so today -- amid all the noise from California and New York and big cities in states like Virginia -- we now have states simply declaring themselves "Constitutional Carry" states. Vermont, for instance. Or our neighbors over here in South Dakota, the most recent one. You don't even *need* a state carry permit there now, because they reason that the US Constitution already gave you that right.
Why did this happen? We're in an anti-gun cultural period right now, aren't we? Why the hell are some people going "backward"?
The more "noise" the gun debate raises, the stupider the laws get. It forces a debate. And there's a backlash. It gets ugly.
Let the politicians target the poor old NRA. The NRA probably would fall apart without them. The anti-gun lobbyists seem completely distracted by the NRA and miss the grass roots action.
Laws are being struck down amid all the negative noise. Crazy, eh?
Oh oh oh... so, if you say, there's no comparison. The gun-lovers are backed up by a constitutional amendment. Dog/horse lovers aren't.
Okay. True.
So switch to LGBT rights. Getting worse or getting better?
Took long enough, but looking back, look at how LOUD the support coming in from far beyond the gay community became. Notice that?
The more that alternative sexual orientations were assailed publicly, the more the "average" American -- even avowed, completely "straight" and even homophobic citizens began to say, "Well, wait now. Let's don't go all holocaust on them. What did they do? Who are they hurting? Is it just because they do romance and sex different? Or because they enjoy it? What's really wrong with that? Why persecute someone for it?"
When no one gave a shit, nothing was happening. And then we creeped along. We got all the way to "don't ask, don't tell." Woo hoo!
No, that's *not* acceptance. But it was so STUPID that it forced deeper questions. What *is* love? What *is* human sexuality? If this is okay, then *why* is this other thing immoral or evil? And is same-sex marriage *really* a threat to marriage as an institution?" What the heck is marriage for, anyway. What extra benefits should be afforded or denied marriage partners?
The attention focused us all on really, really fundamental questions: "Okay, so we have this law. Or we *want* this law. Based on what?"
*Crickets* ... No good answers. Just prejudice.
All the sudden, wham wham wham... laws were falling all around, each state practically racing against the others not to be the last one -- except for some holdouts who were largely considered reprehensible for being holdouts.
All the "negative" attention causes serious debate -- eventually. Causes introspection. Causes arguments of principles. Causes us to FINALLY say, "Your laws are based on nothing more than your own prejudices. And that's not how we do." Plump. Another law is repealed.
It just takes a while and seems like it's never coming. But it has to, right?
If you really *do* believe you make sense, that this makes sense, that this site/community make sense, then it's just a matter of time. Reason will prevail.
If you're on the right side of reason, this is going to pass. Better times are coming.
I believe that. I tried to paint a picture the other day of what it "looks like" when our dog is allowed to join us for a romp in bed. He's *allowed* to participate, not forced to, not trained to, not tricked into it, and not coerced by the "alpha male and female" to do it. He's just having fun. Looks like he's laughing. And we're laughing.
None of that "looks" wrong, or feels wrong. Or is wrong. To punish that... what are you punishing? It doesn't warrant any kind of legal action. I'm on the side of reason. My side will eventually win.
But not yet. Just not yet. Takes time.
Bear with your culture as it goes through its usual, slow, painful process. It's a momentary persecution (though I would never mean to imply I take that lightly). And it will result in a payoff like you wouldn't believe. Should. That's what happens. Happened to McCarthyism, and the anti-zoos are sort of McCarthyist, aren't they?
The STUPIDER the attacks against zoophilia and simple bestiality get, the more attention people pay to the argument's fundamental premises.
And that's a good thing.
What's the goal? Conversion? TV sitcoms about the zoo family?
Well, you will NEVER get every citizen to look at a guy being knotted by his dog and say, "Oh, how cute!"
Gay culture never got that, either. If you make a series *based* on a gay couple, you have a limited audience. Or maybe you get one show like that, but two or three, no. That isn't the largest share of the viewing audience, and networks *mostly* want the larger market.
So, gay culture didn't overwhelm the masses with "equal rights," but they did get the public to finally consider, "So, you can be gay...*AND* be normal? Guess so. And why would we have laws against that again? Who's that hurting, really? No one? How is it *unnatural* to want to have sexual intimacy, play with, the one you love? Or are even just attracted to? Or who shares your kinks for fun?"Then... why we being so draconian then?
Without the noise that came first... Without the retarded, felony-level laws and punishments.... no one's really paying attention. With the attention, there are documentaries, psychological studies, and... they're on *your* side. There is a majority in the public, the voters, who is saying, "Whoa whoa whoa... those folks have rights equal to ours, you bastards. Leave them alone to enjoy life the same way I want you to leave *us* alone."
So, shh. Calm. You're "winning."
Just hang in there a little longer. Freedom is coming.
In the MEANWHILE... do what you fuckin want. Just... don't get caught. (And how would you get "caught" again? Not sure how that happens, unless you're making and posting porn. We don't. Unless you're caught mounting the neighbor's whining dog, chained to a tree. We'd never do that. Unless you're running an animal brothel. (Good god, plenty of zoos here would persecute you for that).
I tell you what, my neighbors, my colleagues, my co-workers, my family, my children ------ they don't even know for sure if my wife and I even HAVE sex anymore, let alone what kinks we enjoy, what toys we use, what fantasies we play out.... or with WHOM... or with .... which animals.
And if you're peeking in our windows (uninvited, that is, because sometimes we invite that)... remember the first part of this long response? Yep. A flash of light and a loud bang will probably be enough of a peeping tom experience to last you the rest of your life. Cops won't ask me what we were doing when we feared you were about to break in through a bedroom window.
So... how will anti-zoo laws affect me while I wait for them to be repealed?
Last it out.
Who were the two greatest handgun salesmen of the past 50 years? Clinton and Obama. In fact, in our gun shop there was an 8X10 picture of Obama on a plaque that was inscribed: "Salesman of the year." People who had no interest at all in guns were running out to buy them in droves. With Trump in office? Sales kind of died. Obama did that stupid ammo buyout gimmick, all it did was raise the price of ammo, cause mass hoarding with some folks stockpiling 10s of thousands of rounds, and lots of foreign nations making money selling ammo to the U.S. Me? I walked across the border up to Canada. They didn't even know there was a shortage. They'd scratch their heads. It's all U.S. factory ammo, Winchester, Federal, American Eagle, Remington -- what do you mean you can't find it in the U.S.
I just smiled and said, "Obama."
"Oh. Right, right." And then, "Cheers!" as they rang up the sale.
With all the attention the "gun debate" has gotten over the years, we've lost the Brady Bill (it had no effect on crime and was allowed to die per sunset rules). We are finally getting people to realize the AR15 is "not" an "assault rifle," its just a semi-auto rifle with really nice shooting characteristics (I know: Clinton era coined a new term "assault weapon," which didn't exist before that and has dubious descriptors/qualifications yet today. Assault rifle is still an erroneous appellation for the AR15).
And so today -- amid all the noise from California and New York and big cities in states like Virginia -- we now have states simply declaring themselves "Constitutional Carry" states. Vermont, for instance. Or our neighbors over here in South Dakota, the most recent one. You don't even *need* a state carry permit there now, because they reason that the US Constitution already gave you that right.
Why did this happen? We're in an anti-gun cultural period right now, aren't we? Why the hell are some people going "backward"?
The more "noise" the gun debate raises, the stupider the laws get. It forces a debate. And there's a backlash. It gets ugly.
Let the politicians target the poor old NRA. The NRA probably would fall apart without them. The anti-gun lobbyists seem completely distracted by the NRA and miss the grass roots action.
Laws are being struck down amid all the negative noise. Crazy, eh?
Oh oh oh... so, if you say, there's no comparison. The gun-lovers are backed up by a constitutional amendment. Dog/horse lovers aren't.
Okay. True.
So switch to LGBT rights. Getting worse or getting better?
Took long enough, but looking back, look at how LOUD the support coming in from far beyond the gay community became. Notice that?
The more that alternative sexual orientations were assailed publicly, the more the "average" American -- even avowed, completely "straight" and even homophobic citizens began to say, "Well, wait now. Let's don't go all holocaust on them. What did they do? Who are they hurting? Is it just because they do romance and sex different? Or because they enjoy it? What's really wrong with that? Why persecute someone for it?"
When no one gave a shit, nothing was happening. And then we creeped along. We got all the way to "don't ask, don't tell." Woo hoo!
No, that's *not* acceptance. But it was so STUPID that it forced deeper questions. What *is* love? What *is* human sexuality? If this is okay, then *why* is this other thing immoral or evil? And is same-sex marriage *really* a threat to marriage as an institution?" What the heck is marriage for, anyway. What extra benefits should be afforded or denied marriage partners?
The attention focused us all on really, really fundamental questions: "Okay, so we have this law. Or we *want* this law. Based on what?"
*Crickets* ... No good answers. Just prejudice.
All the sudden, wham wham wham... laws were falling all around, each state practically racing against the others not to be the last one -- except for some holdouts who were largely considered reprehensible for being holdouts.
All the "negative" attention causes serious debate -- eventually. Causes introspection. Causes arguments of principles. Causes us to FINALLY say, "Your laws are based on nothing more than your own prejudices. And that's not how we do." Plump. Another law is repealed.
It just takes a while and seems like it's never coming. But it has to, right?
If you really *do* believe you make sense, that this makes sense, that this site/community make sense, then it's just a matter of time. Reason will prevail.
If you're on the right side of reason, this is going to pass. Better times are coming.
I believe that. I tried to paint a picture the other day of what it "looks like" when our dog is allowed to join us for a romp in bed. He's *allowed* to participate, not forced to, not trained to, not tricked into it, and not coerced by the "alpha male and female" to do it. He's just having fun. Looks like he's laughing. And we're laughing.
None of that "looks" wrong, or feels wrong. Or is wrong. To punish that... what are you punishing? It doesn't warrant any kind of legal action. I'm on the side of reason. My side will eventually win.
But not yet. Just not yet. Takes time.
Bear with your culture as it goes through its usual, slow, painful process. It's a momentary persecution (though I would never mean to imply I take that lightly). And it will result in a payoff like you wouldn't believe. Should. That's what happens. Happened to McCarthyism, and the anti-zoos are sort of McCarthyist, aren't they?
The STUPIDER the attacks against zoophilia and simple bestiality get, the more attention people pay to the argument's fundamental premises.
And that's a good thing.
What's the goal? Conversion? TV sitcoms about the zoo family?
Well, you will NEVER get every citizen to look at a guy being knotted by his dog and say, "Oh, how cute!"
Gay culture never got that, either. If you make a series *based* on a gay couple, you have a limited audience. Or maybe you get one show like that, but two or three, no. That isn't the largest share of the viewing audience, and networks *mostly* want the larger market.
So, gay culture didn't overwhelm the masses with "equal rights," but they did get the public to finally consider, "So, you can be gay...*AND* be normal? Guess so. And why would we have laws against that again? Who's that hurting, really? No one? How is it *unnatural* to want to have sexual intimacy, play with, the one you love? Or are even just attracted to? Or who shares your kinks for fun?"Then... why we being so draconian then?
Without the noise that came first... Without the retarded, felony-level laws and punishments.... no one's really paying attention. With the attention, there are documentaries, psychological studies, and... they're on *your* side. There is a majority in the public, the voters, who is saying, "Whoa whoa whoa... those folks have rights equal to ours, you bastards. Leave them alone to enjoy life the same way I want you to leave *us* alone."
So, shh. Calm. You're "winning."
Just hang in there a little longer. Freedom is coming.
In the MEANWHILE... do what you fuckin want. Just... don't get caught. (And how would you get "caught" again? Not sure how that happens, unless you're making and posting porn. We don't. Unless you're caught mounting the neighbor's whining dog, chained to a tree. We'd never do that. Unless you're running an animal brothel. (Good god, plenty of zoos here would persecute you for that).
I tell you what, my neighbors, my colleagues, my co-workers, my family, my children ------ they don't even know for sure if my wife and I even HAVE sex anymore, let alone what kinks we enjoy, what toys we use, what fantasies we play out.... or with WHOM... or with .... which animals.
And if you're peeking in our windows (uninvited, that is, because sometimes we invite that)... remember the first part of this long response? Yep. A flash of light and a loud bang will probably be enough of a peeping tom experience to last you the rest of your life. Cops won't ask me what we were doing when we feared you were about to break in through a bedroom window.
So... how will anti-zoo laws affect me while I wait for them to be repealed?
Last it out.
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How can i join said projects?
B
BlueBeard
Guest
Well, more it's the sweeping comments that are hard to get through: "They need to's..." and the "controlling entity overseers".... Put those on a little piece of paper and exorcize them in the fireplace. Poof.
Do you really want to know how to change things without getting in trouble? Want to be a "safe activist"?
We're already *doing* it, folks. This is a big site. Worldwide audience. Guess who's here watching us?
The lurkers here checking us out see lots and lots of different people here. Sure, they find the people who are just here for porn (no offense, anyone). But also intelligent people speaking articulately about philosophy and psychology and biology or just about how they enjoy sex with animals without a lot of shame or guilt. How can that be? It's so damn intriguing to outsiders, right? The documentary folks seem just floored by that -- that normal, intelligent people can also be zoo.
The more of us who are simply talking, who are comfortable being who we are, the more other people begin questioning (doubting, challenging) their perceptions about sexuality period.
You guys might not remember a "pre-Internet" world, where those of us who were beast/zoo lived out lives thinking we were the ONLY one who was "this way."
First thing I did when Usenet (pre-Web internet, and actually, I stayed in newsgroups like that for years after the Web dominated everything).... First thing I did, as I was saying, when Usenet got sophisticated enough that we had access to underground topic groups list #alt.dogsex or #alt.beast (trying to remember room names form memory)... was search for "me," look for myself, for more people like me.
It had been hell on earth, being the "only one like me." -- Until I wasn't the only one like me.
I found others. I found SANE other people, admirable people, people I really, really enjoyed talking to. I met the old Canuck, Stasya, who mentored me, a "zoo child" yet although I was in my 30s. I was close friends with an old single-guy church musician with an old shepherd, Drakar, and a husky or three, who was among other things also a part-time volunteer at a vet clinic in Florida. I met a young mother with a yellow lab in Ohio, who went by the name Changes. Still nursing one child. Divorced and married a horse zoo. Moved to the NW Pacific Coast. Happily living out their zoo lives there.
We were, all of us, a happy little group of friends for years because of the new Internet. All of us different, but all of us bound to the others. Oh, an incredibly brilliant young man in Indiana, whose sense of humor slayed me. His incredibly "zoo" nickname was ... Bob.
Today? Well, hells bells. Who *isn't* zoo? You can't throw a rock without hitting a zoo. Won't matter, most of them, because they were already bawling before you threw it. That part's different. I don't remember so many pessimistic whiners back then.
But to me, I for sure don't feel alone anymore. In fact, among *this* group? I feel as if I'm most *tame*. It seems like everybody and their brother/sister today is having interspecies fun, and they're doing stuff that either never occurred to me to try or... You know, just way more extreme. And some are doing it just for that reason: they seem to be trying to be most "extreme." I don't know.
So, yes, that means, among us, sure, there are the exact, bestial creeps our critics expect to find when they sneak in here, some really fucked up tards. That will always be. You'll never get away from that. Bent/broken people are always attracted to alternative sexual orientations, sad efforts to get more than their "physical" holes filled. They're here stuffing their emotional voids with anything they can find, trying either to curb their boredom, their loneliness, their feelings of worthlessness, or even maybe some of them, their sadist cravings. Maybe they even think everyone is doing the same as them, that they speak for all of us. Can't help that. That's here. Gonna have that. And where else *should* they be? They should feel welcome here, among people that won't judge them for being with animals. That removes that distraction, maybe helps them find the true reason they're fucked up and get to working on that.
But look who ELSE is here? Your most prolific poster here is a young, fearsomely intelligent woman studying to be a vet herself. She and her sister evidently aren't mentally handicapped by their enjoyment of animals. And you have old and young wives and husbands with families, and single folks working on their careers, hoping to find soulmates here. Old "Boomers" who have a laidback, calm, reflective attitude, the grampas and the grammas among us.
That's HUGE!
Where was this noisy crowd of people back when *I* was growing up? I did this alone -- well, pretty much. My sister for a little while was an exploration partner, but not much. And I *heard* about a guy here, or about a donkey show behind a convenience store. But I wasn't there for those. And I never DARED admit I was interested.
I was alone, and silent, and scared that something about *me* might be off. Alone. In silence.
Today is amazing!!! Just to listen to a bunch of zoos bitching how unfair life is, it makes me want to jump up laughing. Yes! YES! There is a CROWD OF US!!!
When did THIS happen? That the earth got filled with zoos?
I do consider it a mixed blessing that I grew up with this alone. I have an advantage. See, I am a happy little zoo without a community; I am a happy little zoo with one. I can come and go. But it just tickles me to death that you're all here.
So don't start telling me how bad things are right now -- I was alive and zoo before the Internet gave us community, gave us power, reassurance, camaraderie, someone to talk to, someone who knew something about what we experience, other people to validate and affirm us.
Someone who can articulate the way no other animal can: OTHER HUMAN BEING ZOOS!
Sheer numbers ... as the world begins to contemplate just the sheer numbers of us who gather like this. Who insist there must be a place like Zooville to congregate....
No doubt they're listening right now. Think about that. There are people among us lurking, watching, hearing us... measuring us. Assessing us. Trying to grasp who we are.
Then be sure to show them your best side. Show them who we are.
Keep talking. Keep posting about events. Keep talking rationally and being good examples.
THAT's important. What we're doing here right now is important. Being people worth knowing who are ALSO... zoo. Doing just that much... JUST that much... and you're being an activist (low-level activist, but... still...).
I'm an activist at least that much. (How 'bout you?)
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TogglesHappyZoo
Tourist
Wow. Some of the shit on this thread just kind of pisses me off. Love to see people snark from the shadows at zoos who have the audacity to try to do something worthwhile for the community, telling everyone how stupid they are to fight for a better future.
If we do ever get anywhere, it sure as fuck won't be because of you.
I guess that's all I have to add at this time.
If we do ever get anywhere, it sure as fuck won't be because of you.
I guess that's all I have to add at this time.
"They're here stuffing their emotional voids with anything they can find, trying either to curb their boredom, their loneliness, their feelings of worthlessness..."
I certainly do have feelings of loneliness, worthlessness and emotional voids. But let's leave most of those out - that's not why I'm here. I enjoy women who have sex with their dogs, and that's why I'm here. The loneliness is a secondary reason but certainly not as important.
I won't bother trying to shame anyone about their inability to make a better future for themselves, mostly because they can't. Trying to be an activist about bestiality while being a bestialist/zoophilist is a great way to put a big target on your back for "law enforcement" and the anti-zoo crowd. It would be an easy way to get your life ruined.
But I certainly can't say that there shouldn't be no kind of outward activism. Sitting on the sidelines will definitely make things worse way before they get better. Hell, where I am located, I could put myself at risk by openly saying that I support zoophilia, even though I myself am not a zoo.
Not to mention having a guy like me out there pushing for zoo rights might backfire easy - I'm not the brightest bulb in the box and I'm not entirely even keel as a person. Still, I'm trying to find some way where I can at least do something (at least without making the situation deteriorate).
Edit: anyone have any ideas for anonymous activism?
B
BlueBeard
Guest
Oh man. I hope that wasn't directed at anything *I* said. If it were, I hope you'll reread what I wrote, maybe reconsider?
I'm not "in the shadows." And I do appreciate the risk others take on all of our behalf. But surely, you understand, we don't all have the luxury of risking just our own lives. To draw the attention of the community upon "us" actually draws it upon our loved ones, our families, and the community itself.
Identify what you have determined is "shit," please, to make sure we know who pissed you off, who your ire is directed at.
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SigmaTheZeta
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
@BlueBeard, I personally am more concerned about people that snark at anybody that is talking about the idea that any of us should try to make a difference. I think that your post was more a discussion on the fact that this forum itself can be powerful. While forums have their shortcomings, as a technology, there might arguably be very little of an organized zooey community without them.
I run into many people on here that have nothing to do except snipe viciously at anybody that talks about trying to make a difference, and I think that many of them just do not comprehend that it is precisely because we have kept our heads buried in the sand that we have remained so vulnerable to coming under the gun.
When people that are relatively rational will not go up to bat for the community, someone that is even less perfect will end up being the center of attention. For example, some of the more prominent speakers are criticized, within the zooey community, as being "fence-hoppers" and of engaging in other wayward behaviors, but I would also point out that Harvey Milk habitually fucked teenagers earlier in life and caught flak for that. The fact that he was an imperfect person that did not always have perfect judgment did not stop him from being an important reformer. Even if you took a closer look at Reverend Martin Luther King Junior, you could argue that the Bloody Sunday riot was partly his own fault due to his then more fiery rhetoric, and in some ways, he did have his own checkered past that was also important to why he eventually embraced the firm commitment to peaceful protest, underscore, peaceful protest, that he did: he wasn't talking out of his butt-hole when he carried on about that, but he had seen one backfire after another and had just gotten tired of losing and that he really liked winning. He also saw that if he did nothing, then people like Malcolm X would.
And maybe some of us that are trying to lead, at this point, are only doing so because we have seen what happens when the wrong people take the lead. The fact that zoos are downtrodden will not go away, and if that fact simply is going unaddressed, then someone that has reached the end of his rope, sometimes because they genuinely did something they should not have done, is going to get impatient and do something impulsive.
For instance, Malcolm X became an activist while he was serving a prison sentence for actual crimes. It is ultimately a good thing that he and other men like him that had gotten into trouble chose to deal with that by standing up and saying that something needed to change and saying that they were not going to shut up until something changed. It is also a good thing that their flawed natures did not ultimately come to define the movement.
I wold turn you to those that are actively getting abusive toward those of us that think something ought to change, who believe that zooiness is inherently something that is negative, at best a mental illness or a product of a mental illness, and something that it is right for society to treat as something negative. There are zoos on here that come on here with an attitude that they are doing something "taboo" and "naughty," and in their heads, they are mingling with other people that are as shameful as they themselves are. They have a very negative outlook on other zoos, they really hate other zoos, and they also deeply hate themselves.
I do not really pardon those people. They are doing the equivalent of throwing an anchor to a drowning man. They see that some zoos do have mental problems, and that is at least partly because we are so deeply isolated from the rest of society. Those zoos just want to increase that isolation and take a "quarantine" outlook on it, hoping they will die from natural causes before society at large notices our festering existence and crushes any of us that are left. They might have fucked animals in their lifetimes, and they might be hanging out on here. However, they really hate other zoos, and they privately think that most other zoos ought to be shot. If someone's reaction to a drowning man is to throw him an anchor to make him stop splashing about and scaring the fish, then I have a serious problem with that sort of mentality.
If you notice any problematic behaviors going on in the zooey community, @BlueBeard, then I will give you a new term for you to chew on: Cultural Founders Effect. When zoos fail to engage with the rest of society, then we can end up expressing some bizarre ideas or a kind of thinking that is not really all that acceptable. Not being able to talk openly with non-zoos about our zooiness without being roundly condemned for being zoos in the first place leads to us failing to pick up on ideas about right and wrong that have nothing to do with whether or not we fuck animals and have everything to do with whether or not we respect other people's property and whether or not we are thinking about the creatures we love as something besides stars in our homemade pornography for other people to jerk off to. If some of us could talk more openly with non-zoos, then I am convinced that the zooey community would start internalizing healthier social norms.
I am going to tell you why I am also a "furry," besides being a zoo, @BlueBeard, although it would be more accurate to say that I am a "science fiction and fantasy fan who is also a zoo and happens to enjoy light non-sexual roleplay." The reason why is that that constitutes the world's most important mixed zooey and non-zooey social venue. I prefer hanging out in a community where I can be open about being a zoo with many different kinds of people, including non-zoos. I only come on here to talk about zooey activism. This is not my primary social hangout, and I don't think it should be. We have had some problems with some anti-zooey bullying within the furry community, and I have talked with @TogglesHappyZoo about possible approaches to fixing that. The furry community remains an important bridge for getting young zoos to try talking to non-zoos about their feelings and trying to learn how other people deal with their non-zooey romantic lives.
The people on here that are really problematic are those that mock and ridicule the zooey community's leadership for their imperfections and checkered pasts. Those are the ones that mock and throw stones at people that are trying to do something helpful, but you don't see them really stepping up to do anything, themselves. The one that reached out to Jerry Springer, for on the other hand, was trying to make a difference. Maybe Jerry Springer was a less than ideal person to reach out to, by some people's reckoning, but just taunting and hurling stones from the sidelines is not helping matters at all. If they are so damn smart, then they ought to put up or shut up. I don't see them getting us interviewed on Letterman or 60 Minutes.
@BlueBeard, I would say that we need more insightful discussion like what you offer, not less. The problem children are those that have nothing better to do than sneer and heckle from the sidelines. These are people that have a negative outlook on ANY zooey activism at all and perpetuate lies about some of them or exaggerate their actual imperfections without taking into account any of the good they actually have done in spite of those imperfections. Those punks that heckle them talk a big game, but they don't produce shit.
I run into many people on here that have nothing to do except snipe viciously at anybody that talks about trying to make a difference, and I think that many of them just do not comprehend that it is precisely because we have kept our heads buried in the sand that we have remained so vulnerable to coming under the gun.
When people that are relatively rational will not go up to bat for the community, someone that is even less perfect will end up being the center of attention. For example, some of the more prominent speakers are criticized, within the zooey community, as being "fence-hoppers" and of engaging in other wayward behaviors, but I would also point out that Harvey Milk habitually fucked teenagers earlier in life and caught flak for that. The fact that he was an imperfect person that did not always have perfect judgment did not stop him from being an important reformer. Even if you took a closer look at Reverend Martin Luther King Junior, you could argue that the Bloody Sunday riot was partly his own fault due to his then more fiery rhetoric, and in some ways, he did have his own checkered past that was also important to why he eventually embraced the firm commitment to peaceful protest, underscore, peaceful protest, that he did: he wasn't talking out of his butt-hole when he carried on about that, but he had seen one backfire after another and had just gotten tired of losing and that he really liked winning. He also saw that if he did nothing, then people like Malcolm X would.
And maybe some of us that are trying to lead, at this point, are only doing so because we have seen what happens when the wrong people take the lead. The fact that zoos are downtrodden will not go away, and if that fact simply is going unaddressed, then someone that has reached the end of his rope, sometimes because they genuinely did something they should not have done, is going to get impatient and do something impulsive.
For instance, Malcolm X became an activist while he was serving a prison sentence for actual crimes. It is ultimately a good thing that he and other men like him that had gotten into trouble chose to deal with that by standing up and saying that something needed to change and saying that they were not going to shut up until something changed. It is also a good thing that their flawed natures did not ultimately come to define the movement.
I wold turn you to those that are actively getting abusive toward those of us that think something ought to change, who believe that zooiness is inherently something that is negative, at best a mental illness or a product of a mental illness, and something that it is right for society to treat as something negative. There are zoos on here that come on here with an attitude that they are doing something "taboo" and "naughty," and in their heads, they are mingling with other people that are as shameful as they themselves are. They have a very negative outlook on other zoos, they really hate other zoos, and they also deeply hate themselves.
I do not really pardon those people. They are doing the equivalent of throwing an anchor to a drowning man. They see that some zoos do have mental problems, and that is at least partly because we are so deeply isolated from the rest of society. Those zoos just want to increase that isolation and take a "quarantine" outlook on it, hoping they will die from natural causes before society at large notices our festering existence and crushes any of us that are left. They might have fucked animals in their lifetimes, and they might be hanging out on here. However, they really hate other zoos, and they privately think that most other zoos ought to be shot. If someone's reaction to a drowning man is to throw him an anchor to make him stop splashing about and scaring the fish, then I have a serious problem with that sort of mentality.
If you notice any problematic behaviors going on in the zooey community, @BlueBeard, then I will give you a new term for you to chew on: Cultural Founders Effect. When zoos fail to engage with the rest of society, then we can end up expressing some bizarre ideas or a kind of thinking that is not really all that acceptable. Not being able to talk openly with non-zoos about our zooiness without being roundly condemned for being zoos in the first place leads to us failing to pick up on ideas about right and wrong that have nothing to do with whether or not we fuck animals and have everything to do with whether or not we respect other people's property and whether or not we are thinking about the creatures we love as something besides stars in our homemade pornography for other people to jerk off to. If some of us could talk more openly with non-zoos, then I am convinced that the zooey community would start internalizing healthier social norms.
I am going to tell you why I am also a "furry," besides being a zoo, @BlueBeard, although it would be more accurate to say that I am a "science fiction and fantasy fan who is also a zoo and happens to enjoy light non-sexual roleplay." The reason why is that that constitutes the world's most important mixed zooey and non-zooey social venue. I prefer hanging out in a community where I can be open about being a zoo with many different kinds of people, including non-zoos. I only come on here to talk about zooey activism. This is not my primary social hangout, and I don't think it should be. We have had some problems with some anti-zooey bullying within the furry community, and I have talked with @TogglesHappyZoo about possible approaches to fixing that. The furry community remains an important bridge for getting young zoos to try talking to non-zoos about their feelings and trying to learn how other people deal with their non-zooey romantic lives.
The people on here that are really problematic are those that mock and ridicule the zooey community's leadership for their imperfections and checkered pasts. Those are the ones that mock and throw stones at people that are trying to do something helpful, but you don't see them really stepping up to do anything, themselves. The one that reached out to Jerry Springer, for on the other hand, was trying to make a difference. Maybe Jerry Springer was a less than ideal person to reach out to, by some people's reckoning, but just taunting and hurling stones from the sidelines is not helping matters at all. If they are so damn smart, then they ought to put up or shut up. I don't see them getting us interviewed on Letterman or 60 Minutes.
@BlueBeard, I would say that we need more insightful discussion like what you offer, not less. The problem children are those that have nothing better to do than sneer and heckle from the sidelines. These are people that have a negative outlook on ANY zooey activism at all and perpetuate lies about some of them or exaggerate their actual imperfections without taking into account any of the good they actually have done in spite of those imperfections. Those punks that heckle them talk a big game, but they don't produce shit.
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