Cultural acceptance of bestiality is inevitable

[UR20Z]

Are you really suggesting that the LGBT community was recognized solely on the basis of Freddy Mercury's singing?
Aren't you forgetting the international impact of Tiananmen Square, and how much China has democratized since? (Granted, it's no democracy, but a lot has changed.)

Your history is selective and lacks any sort of scope. You use it as an excuse for your inaction, and a reason to blame others for your circumstances. And that, my friend, is the essence of cynicism.



No, I'm not forgetting about them. They are absolutely included in that stagnation, because a person who's told life to go fuck itself isn't doing anything for anyone but themselves, and using our dutiful cynic maverick here as an example, will actively try to impede any progress by insisting it's not possible and why bother.

Toggle, ol' son, Based on what I've seen of your Youtube presence, and the tripe you spew from other soapboxes, I'm forced to conclude that you weren't even sucking air when the first big push for "zoo rights" happened. You might read about what went down, but that's a far cry from LIVING it, as so many of us who have spoken up to say "leave it alone" did. And nothing has changed, except to make things worse. *EVERY* *SINGLE* *EFFORT* has the same result: Somebody starts waving the "Zoo rights" flag, and puts the idea of "people have sex with animals?" in the front of their heads. Which in turn results in a near universal cry for "There ought to be a law" from the public at large. Before the idiot started waving, it was one of those things that, yeah, sure, people have heard about it, maybe some make jokes about it, but they don't really *THINK* about it very often or very much or very seriously. Your classic "out of sight, out of mind"/"below the radar" scenario. Things have settled down, at least somewhat, since the last time somebody decided to stir the pot enough that John Q. got a whiff of the stink. And now here comes the latest wave - WTF am I saying, "wave"? More like a half-assed ripple - of fools thinking that they're gonna "free the zoos". Again. For something like the 6th time now. And every previous attempt that has brought the "zoo community" (Please refer to note 1, below) to the attention of John Q. and all his buddies, the result has been, every single time, more grief has come of it for the "community".

Let me make something abundantly clear: I DID NOT, DO NOT, and WILL NOT approve of your decision to appoint yourself as mouthpiece for me. Should I desire to have my voice to be heard, I'll handle it myself, thanks. Should the day ever come when I think there's any chance to do anything more than bring down MORE heat on what passes for the Zoo community, I'll cheerfully speak up. As things stand, history (to you - I call it "part of my life") shows that the only thing that can be accomplished is more bad news for zoos.

Show me a significant benefit that will come of your waving that "zoo rights" banner. What's gonna change? Hmmm? You gonna be able to get away with playing "hide the weenie" with your (or even better, a random one you followed until it let you get close enough) dog on the side of the road? Hmmm... Lemme ponder the benefits that would bring... <crickets> and more <crickets> well, darn... even more <crickets> Y'know, I can't think of any at all... Perhaps you can offer me something?



Note 1: WRT: "Zoo community", such as it is - I don't recognize it as a "community", no matter how big I try to make that particular tent - we're a near invisible slice of the pie that is humanity, loosely groupable by the single fact that we don't consider sex with an animal to be anything other than run-of-the-mill. That's, by no means, enough "glue" to stick our incredibly disparate selves together into a "community". You've got just about every possible opinion on just about every possible topic, with a few here and there sharing that opinion, while others consider it anathema. The *ONLY THING* we all agree on is that sex with animals isn't automatically "evil", and some of us have gone as far as to actually engage in it. That's nothing like enough to call us a "community". But that's a rant that can go on for pages. Decided to move it down here 'cause it blows up the flow.

 

[Alpha Cat]

Let me make something abundantly clear: I DID NOT, DO NOT, and WILL NOT approve of your decision to appoint yourself as mouthpiece for me.

Oh, don't worry. I've seen these kinds of scenarios before. Trust me, we'll be reading about Toggle in online articles when he gets arrested and convicted on whatever dirt they can get on him. When you put yourself out there for the spotlight, then the government's searchlight gets put on you. That's one mouse who should have stayed behind the wall. I like Toggle but he is too biased to represent us and the crowd he panders to on Twitter makes us look bad, really bad.

@UR20Z You are not the first to echo these sentiments. I have made the same argument based on the same opinions and conclusions as you but no one seems to give a shit. That is fine by me. If he wants to be like his old pal Doug Spink then he is going to end up just like him.

 

[Deleted member]

Are you really suggesting that the LGBT community was recognized solely on the basis of Freddy Mercury's singing?
Aren't you forgetting the international impact of Tiananmen Square, and how much China has democratized since? (Granted, it's no democracy, but a lot has changed.)

The Freddie Mercury comment was given as example, not an end-all-and-be-all. Not sure you took it that way? Watch the Freddie Mercury documentary, it's pretty amazing and shows his influence.

China has indeed NOT democratized. There is a HUGE Asian population locally I am involved in. There is NO democracy, other than on the surface. If you see democracy, you don't know what democracy is.

Your history is selective and lacks any sort of scope. You use it as an excuse for your inaction, and a reason to blame others for your circumstances. And that, my friend, is the essence of cynicism.

LMAO! Are you a Millenial? I lived this history, bub! Save your judgements for the furry community that gives a shit. I don't have anything to prove.

 

[LookN4k9er]

Personally I don’t believe it will ever be socially accepted. With a lot of luck it might drop being illegal behind closed doors between accepting consenting adults. Biblically, morally and in the majority of current cultures it if frowned upon at the least. A bit of a tangent but some what related is that historically cultures that accept bi, gay, lesbian openly have been in decline and if your in the USA it could be argued we are in decline. I don’t believe what consenting adults do behind closed doors with the exception of incest (mainly due to the fact that in most cases probably someone is not an adult) should be regulated by government but by one’s conscience.

 

[saddlebum66]

Not a chance....2010 may be a cutoff point....but it did NOT cut off acceptance. Anything that seemed like "acceptance", such as non-prosecution, was simple ignorance of our presence and proclivities. Yet again, it appears that if it didnt happen to 'you', it didnt happen. That error gets made more and more as the years pass. What is taken as legality is not so.

Bestial relationships have NEVER been legal....but the reluctance to address such a topic to make it explicitly illegal COULD make such practices seem legal. "No law against it" has been an excuse for a lot of things over time. Many lawmakers in many periods would have regarded bringing the subject up as anathema....dignifying the most degenerate of humanity with any consideration would have been as unthinkable as allowing a black man to marry a white woman in The US. THAT was not legal til the SCOTUS ruling in Va vs Loving in 1967.
That ruling was used in "Equal Protection" cases only as early as 2015 (Obergefell v Hodges). Such ruling might find its way into a case making Bestial relations legal some day, but do not hold your breath... in order for what we consider a fundamental freedom to come about, a lot of legislation over centuries must be struck down. It isnt likely, with the current court, and the general bent of the Nation, that it will be taken up anytime in the next fifty years.
And this is just in the US....one country. Granted, an influential Nation, but still just one country. No amount of wishful thinking is going to change that.

 

[Pillar]

The Freddie Mercury comment was given as example, not an end-all-and-be-all. Not sure you took it that way? Watch the Freddie Mercury documentary, it's pretty amazing and shows his influence.

China has indeed NOT democratized. There is a HUGE Asian population locally I am involved in. There is NO democracy, other than on the surface. If you see democracy, you don't know what democracy is.

LMAO! Are you a Millenial? I lived this history, bub! Save your judgements for the furry community that gives a shit. I don't have anything to prove.

Come now, you do realize I am a millennial, right?

 

[Deleted member]

Come now, you do realize I am a millennial, right?

Hehehe, your comment reminded me of my 24-yr-old stepson doing the opposite as he was jumping up and down, shouting, "I AM NOT A MILLENIAL! I AM GEN-Y!!!!"

 

[UR20Z]

Hehehe, your comment reminded me of my 24-yr-old stepson doing the opposite as he was jumping up and down, shouting, "I AM NOT A MILLENIAL! I AM GEN-Y!!!!"

Gen-Y, or Gen-WHINER? Or perhaps "genuine whiner"?

 

[Deleted member]

Gen-Y, or Gen-WHINER? Or perhaps "genuine whiner"?

HA!
You'd swear he was Gen-X for his views and quite open minded and not activist at all

 

[UR20Z]

HA!
You'd swear he was Gen-X for his views and quite open minded and not activist at all

Idunno - I haven't yet figured out which is worse - The friggin Millies, or the Gen-whiners. The Gen-X crew isn't *ENTIRELY* hopeless, but they're nothing like anything that could be called "consistent", one to the next. This one is what I'd have called a "burnout" back in the day. The one next to him is bright enough to be scary, knowledge-wise, but so fucking naive to the realities of the world as to be absolutely mind-boggling, and the one following him is somebody that might've grown up alongside me, and willing as the day is long to bust his ass to make something of himself, while the one that comes after him is all-too-obviously going to be a lifelong cellar-dwelling "Chuck", complete with a bottomless two-liter of Mountain Dew, and an endless stream of Doritos. ?‍ How can ya decide which one is worth allowing to continue breathing, and which one should be drowned immediately as a mercy to the entire human race?

 

[Deleted member]

Idunno - I haven't yet figured out which is worse - The friggin Millies, or the Gen-whiners. The Gen-X crew isn't *ENTIRELY* hopeless, but they're nothing like anything that could be called "consistent", one to the next. This one is what I'd have called a "burnout" back in the day. The one next to him is bright enough to be scary, knowledge-wise, but so fucking naive to the realities of the world as to be absolutely mind-boggling, and the one following him is somebody that might've grown up alongside me, and willing as the day is long to bust his ass to make something of himself, while the one that comes after him is all-too-obviously going to be a lifelong cellar-dwelling "Chuck", complete with a bottomless two-liter of Mountain Dew, and an endless stream of Doritos. ?‍ How can ya decide which one is worth allowing to continue breathing, and which one should be drowned immediately as a mercy to the entire human race?

GAH! You just described my entire class reunion!
...
I just realized we hijacked this into a worthwhile discussion thread

 

[TogglesHappyZoo]

Toggle, ol' son, Based on what I've seen of your Youtube presence, and the tripe you spew from other soapboxes, I'm forced to conclude that you weren't even sucking air when the first big push for "zoo rights" happened. You might read about what went down, but that's a far cry from LIVING it, as so many of us who have spoken up to say "leave it alone" did. And nothing has changed, except to make things worse. *EVERY* *SINGLE* *EFFORT* has the same result: Somebody starts waving the "Zoo rights" flag, and puts the idea of "people have sex with animals?" in the front of their heads. Which in turn results in a near universal cry for "There ought to be a law" from the public at large. Before the idiot started waving, it was one of those things that, yeah, sure, people have heard about it, maybe some make jokes about it, but they don't really *THINK* about it very often or very much or very seriously. Your classic "out of sight, out of mind"/"below the radar" scenario. Things have settled down, at least somewhat, since the last time somebody decided to stir the pot enough that John Q. got a whiff of the stink. And now here comes the latest wave - WTF am I saying, "wave"? More like a half-assed ripple - of fools thinking that they're gonna "free the zoos". Again. For something like the 6th time now. And every previous attempt that has brought the "zoo community" (Please refer to note 1, below) to the attention of John Q. and all his buddies, the result has been, every single time, more grief has come of it for the "community".

Let me make something abundantly clear: I DID NOT, DO NOT, and WILL NOT approve of your decision to appoint yourself as mouthpiece for me. Should I desire to have my voice to be heard, I'll handle it myself, thanks. Should the day ever come when I think there's any chance to do anything more than bring down MORE heat on what passes for the Zoo community, I'll cheerfully speak up. As things stand, history (to you - I call it "part of my life") shows that the only thing that can be accomplished is more bad news for zoos.

Show me a significant benefit that will come of your waving that "zoo rights" banner. What's gonna change? Hmmm? You gonna be able to get away with playing "hide the weenie" with your (or even better, a random one you followed until it let you get close enough) dog on the side of the road? Hmmm... Lemme ponder the benefits that would bring... <crickets> and more <crickets> well, darn... even more <crickets> Y'know, I can't think of any at all... Perhaps you can offer me something?



Note 1: WRT: "Zoo community", such as it is - I don't recognize it as a "community", no matter how big I try to make that particular tent - we're a near invisible slice of the pie that is humanity, loosely groupable by the single fact that we don't consider sex with an animal to be anything other than run-of-the-mill. That's, by no means, enough "glue" to stick our incredibly disparate selves together into a "community". You've got just about every possible opinion on just about every possible topic, with a few here and there sharing that opinion, while others consider it anathema. The *ONLY THING* we all agree on is that sex with animals isn't automatically "evil", and some of us have gone as far as to actually engage in it. That's nothing like enough to call us a "community". But that's a rant that can go on for pages. Decided to move it down here 'cause it blows up the flow.

Perhaps it’s precisely because you lived it that you can’t see past it, or put it in a historical context. What has always been missing as we go through these waves of persecution is our own voice. When something happens, it’s someone getting caught, and then no one saying, “what about their side of the story?” The narrative hasn’t been ours, during every attempt we’ve made, and the more we say, “Just be quiet and keep your head down,” the more invisible we are, the more we are mythical monsters that are mere caricatures of human beings.

I in no way intend to be a mouthpiece for the whole community. My goal is to encourage others to speak for themselves by showing it can be done. Because the only solution is being visible. Invisible people will never be allowed anything.

Here’s a palpable good that comes from it: being able to hold ourselves accountable, something that’s been denied to us since the community took form. I hate that I risk the lives of people I love in order to hold abusive people accountable. I hate that in Scotland, when a fuckface cut up the genitals of another zoo’s mare as revenge, the zoo and the people he knew got in trouble because the abuser had dirt. That’s a reality that doesn’t have to exist, but which our continued silence ensures.

Every marginalized group that tries to gain visibility and make positive change for themselves has people like you. It’s never the right time. You’re just making it hard for everyone else. If we just keep our head down, we’ll be fine. And ultimately, history has proven those people wrong. Things are hard in the short term, but you gotta keep your eye on the long term.

Oh, don't worry. I've seen these kinds of scenarios before. Trust me, we'll be reading about Toggle in online articles when he gets arrested and convicted on whatever dirt they can get on him. When you put yourself out there for the spotlight, then the government's searchlight gets put on you. That's one mouse who should have stayed behind the wall. I like Toggle but he is too biased to represent us and the crowd he panders to on Twitter makes us look bad, really bad.

@UR20Z You are not the first to echo these sentiments. I have made the same argument based on the same opinions and conclusions as you but no one seems to give a shit. That is fine by me. If he wants to be like his old pal Doug Spink then he is going to end up just like him.

The thing is, there is no dirt on me aside from being a zoophile. Much to the chagrin of people who have tried for a while to dig up such dirt. I’m very boring. I don’t even drink alcohol. I pay my taxes and I rarely drive over the speed limit.

I do not want to be the person who represents you. I want you to represent yourselves. I make a podcast and have a twitter account. If you really think that amounts to representing all of the zoo community, then we really need to step up our game as a community. But here’s the thing: if you don’t represent yourself, someone else will. You can only bitch about it for so long before you need to look at yourself and take some of the blame. If you don’t like what we do with the podcast, make one yourself, or support another endeavor. If you don’t like how the discourse is going on twitter, make a twitter account — that’s what I did. Be the representation you want to see. There’s always going to be someone whose message and tactics you don’t like.

If you really hate what I’m doing, please, I’m begging you, do me a favor and do it better.

 

[jorzoo]

All i can say is you can go to porn hub and watch people use dog and horse shaped dildos. seems to me its starting to be acceptible in some regard.