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i do not wish to offend anyone with this post. do any of you feel... ashamed of who you are?

What shame, what wrongness? :unsure: No, never felt that. Just caution for privacy, that's all.

Shame or wrongness would require wrong actions. There's nothing wrong with loving animals, even sexually with consent.
The "wrong" I see in human social-morally based aspects without any scientific background, projected on universal rule sets. Like "sex with animals is bad, because we say so or our books say so!".
 
"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."

And there you have it. Wisdom from the Bard.

William Shakespeare. *Hamlet*
The Bard may have been a great writer, but this is pure bullshit.

The real argument is where the line gets drawn. Adolf Hitler? Hell no. Mother Theresa? Yes. Beyond examples like that, it gets harder. For societies to function, there has to be some sort of agreed upon values.

Homosexuality and zoo sex is "wrong" because it isn't procreative. If you aren't procreating, you aren't increasing somebody's power base. That's a troublesome thing that needs to be stamped out by any person or body seeking power. There's a lot more to this that shouldn't be discussed in this forum.

In our society, "self-respect" is anything but. Very few people can look into themselves and be content with what they see all on their own. Rather, we are looking for validation from the rest of the world. Unfortunately, the rest of the world is fucked-up and a poor gauge.

Don't hurt anybody. Be a good person. That done, give yourself a break. You're doing more than most.
 
The Bard may have been a great writer, but this is pure bullshit.

The real argument is where the line gets drawn. Adolf Hitler? Hell no. Mother Theresa? Yes. Beyond examples like that, it gets harder. For societies to function, there has to be some sort of agreed upon values.

Homosexuality and zoo sex is "wrong" because it isn't procreative. If you aren't procreating, you aren't increasing somebody's power base. That's a troublesome thing that needs to be stamped out by any person or body seeking power. There's a lot more to this that shouldn't be discussed in this forum.

In our society, "self-respect" is anything but. Very few people can look into themselves and be content with what they see all on their own. Rather, we are looking for validation from the rest of the world. Unfortunately, the rest of the world is fucked-up and a poor gauge.

Don't hurt anybody. Be a good person. That done, give yourself a break. You're doing more than most.
Wow. "Pure bullshit"? You're kind of illustrating the point Shakespeare made. Your thinking has made it so, based on preemptive constructs. And like the historic examples you've listed, it has so much to do with perspective. And then throw the monkey wrench into the works: agreed upon values change. Not just personally. Social values change.

I love your examples. And I can add a few more to them. Adolf Hitler was a hero to millions -- who at the time "thought" him a great leader, going to restore pride in being German on the heels of global disgrace. He has many, many admirable qualities that are dismissed. He killed a lot of people?

What was Truman, then? He didn't just drop one atomic bomb that obliterated thousands upon thousands of civilians instantly and left many thousands more to die after long suffering -- he did it twice.

What was Pres. Obama? He ordered and took credit for the assassination of Osama bin Laden. Didn't want him captured. Didn't want him tried. Took pride in being the president in office when three .556 rounds fired quickly from an M16 split the dude's head in half in his bedroom in front of his family. That's okay, though, because bin Bad Guy orchestrated the attack on America -- which was cheered by countless millions who despise America's arrogance, as if Americans deserve what they were accidentally born into when so much of the rest of the world is suffering and in pain by comparison. Did bin Laden die a murderous terrorist or a martyr? He was both.

Mother Teresa? Do some reading of the controversies and criticisms of her, including forced conversions, tendency to help people die rather than get them proper medical treatment.

When I was growing up, General Custer was a hero. Before I finished high school, he was a despicable war monger who oversaw the slaughter of whole villages of women and children, and "deserved" to die a "rich man," as Vine Deloria wrote in "Custer Died for Your Sins" -- wearing an Arrow shirt.

It's all about how the story is spun. There is no such thing as "pure bullshit," not even from a bull. It's all a mix that, depending on the values you yourself personally have, whether you developed them or they are part of your upbringing, create your judgment of whether something is good or bad.

There is rarely black or white, just lighter or darker shades of gray, when it comes to moral judgment. Even the Pope, whom Catholics are taught teaches with infallibility, has *never* declared any "moral teaching" infallible. Only doctrine. Never moral judgment. He will never make an "ex cathedra" declaration that Hitler is in hell. In fact, we were often told in catechisms that Hitler may well be in Heaven. It was a frequent example.

Even the Pope can't judge an individual with infallibility! -- And who are you, again?

Nothing is either good or bad but thinking make it so. Final answer.
 
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Wow. "Pure bullshit"? You're kind of illustrating the point Shakespeare made. Your thinking has made it so, based on preemptive constructs. And like the historic examples you've listed, it has so much to do with perspective. And then throw the monkey wrench into the works: agreed upon values change. Not just personally. Social values change.

I love your examples. And I can add a few more to them. Adolf Hitler was a hero to millions -- who at the time "thought" him a great leader, going to restore pride in being German on the heels of global disgrace. He has many, many admirable qualities that are dismissed. He killed a lot of people?

What was Truman, then? He didn't just drop one atomic bomb that obliterated thousands upon thousands of civilians instantly and left many thousands more to die after long suffering -- he did it twice.

What was Pres. Obama? He ordered and took credit for the assassination of Osama bin Laden. Didn't want him captured. Didn't want him tried. Took pride in being the president in office when three .556 rounds fired quickly from an M16 split the dude's head in half in his bedroom in front of his family. That's okay, though, because bin Bad Guy orchestrated the attack on America -- which was cheered by countless millions who despise America's arrogance, as if Americans deserve what they were accidentally born into when so much of the rest of the world is suffering and in pain by comparison. Did bin Laden die a murderous terrorist or a martyr? He was both.

Mother Teresa? Do some reading of the controversies and criticisms of her, including forced conversions, tendency to help people die rather than get them proper medical treatment.

When I was growing up, General Custer was a hero. Before I finished high school, he was a despicable war monger who oversaw the slaughter of whole villages of women and children, and "deserved" to die a "rich man," as Vine Deloria wrote in "Custer Died for Your Sins" -- wearing an Arrow shirt.

It's all about how the story is spun. There is no such thing as "pure bullshit," not even from a bull. It's all a mix that, depending on the values you yourself personally have, whether you developed them or they are part of your upbringing, create your judgment of whether something is good or bad.

There is rarely black or white, just lighter or darker shades of gray, when it comes to moral judgment. Even the Pope, whom Catholics are taught teaches with infallibility, has *never* declared any "moral teaching" infallible. Only doctrine. Never moral judgment. He will never make an "ex cathedra" declaration that Hitler is in hell. In fact, we were often told in catechisms that Hitler may well be in Heaven. It was a frequent example.

Even the Pope can't judge an individual with infallibility! -- And who are you, again?

Nothing is either good or bad but thinking make it so. Final answer.
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin is interesting in a vacuum.

And yes, a robust German economy is a fair trade for the lives of millions of Jews, Gypsies and Russians. Maybe the people who think that are fucked-up, too.

So, if someone beats your head in and takes your wallet or rapes your wife, remember that nothing is inherently good or bad. Send them a fruit basket, as you are not fit to judge.

While I understand some of the pitfalls of moral conviction, I'm not convinced that life is better without it.
 
I started doing --things-- with animals relatively early, initially out of curiosity. As I'm an Asperger's kid, things that grab my interest can easily become an obsession. As I matured, sex with animals progressed from mere curiosity to very serious business.

Though I was thoroughly 'hooked' on it, my mind kept telling me that it was NOT NORMAL. That and some of the other (unrelated) things that I did or didn't do that were different from what "normal" people did. I knew I was weird and it bothered me. I was well aware that I had to keep it a secret from everyone or things could go very badly for me.

I was a messed up kid in other ways as well and I had panic attacks, depression and the like. I figured out at one point that I could drown it in alcohol and I would feel better for a little while. That went on for 20-some years, until I went out drinking with co-workers one Friday night and woke up in a parking lot Saturday morning with a two-inch gash in my leg and no idea where I was. I decided that I really needed to quit drinking or I was going to end up in the hospital, in jail or dead.

Long story a bit shorter, I gave up the booze with some help from friends, 25 years and 7 months and counting, one day at a time. Right about the time I quit drinking, I discovered the online zoo community and that helped me feel a WHOLE LOT better about myself. Misery loves company, y'know... The shame is long gone. Sure, some people still tend to find me weird and creepy, mostly because I'm very quiet in person. I've grown comfortable with who and what I am, I'm not gonna change, no need to. Everybody's different, I'm just a little more different than some others.

The way I look at it, if everyone was "normal" (whatever THAT is) and cast from the same mold, this would be a boring world. If you don't like me, there's several billion other people you might like better. The next guy might rob you or stab you in the back or something, which I won't. Oh, well.
 
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I started doing --things-- with animals at a relatively early age, initially out of curiosity. As I'm an Asperger's kid, things that grab my interest can easily become an obsession. As I was going through puberty, sex with animals progressed from mere curiosity to very serious business.

Though I was thoroughly 'hooked' on it, my mind kept telling me that it was NOT NORMAL. That and some of the other (unrelated) things that I did or didn't do that were different from what "normal" people did. I knew I was weird and it bothered me. I was well aware that I had to keep it a secret from everyone or things could go very badly for me.

I was a messed up kid in other ways as well and I had panic attacks, depression and the like. I figured out at one point that I could drown it in alcohol and I would feel better for a little while. That went on for 20-some years, until I went out drinking with co-workers one Friday night and woke up in a parking lot Saturday morning with a two-inch gash in my leg and no idea where I was. I decided that I really needed to quit drinking or I was going to end up in the hospital, in jail or dead.

Long story a bit shorter, I gave up the booze with some help from friends, 25 years and 7 months and counting, one day at a time. Right about the time I quit drinking, I discovered the online zoo community and that helped me feel a WHOLE LOT better about myself. Misery loves company, y'know... The shame is long gone. Sure, some people still tend to find me weird and creepy, mostly because I'm very quiet in person. I've grown comfortable with who and what I am, I'm not gonna change, no need to. Everybody's different, I'm just a little more different than some others.

The way I look at it, if everyone was "normal" (whatever THAT is) and cast from the same mold, this would be a boring world. If you don't like me, there's several billion other people you might like better. The next guy might rob you or stab you in the back or something, which I won't. Oh, well.
I love your story.
I have often said that if all teenage boys had free access to animals for sex then there would be a lot less rapes and sex attacks..but alas that will never happen while society is controlled by Bible Bashers and other fundamentalists.
 
I love your story.
I have often said that if all teenage boys had free access to animals for sex then there would be a lot less rapes and sex attacks..but alas that will never happen while society is controlled by Bible Bashers and other fundamentalists.
While it's potentially true, there are some on the agressive spectrum that just shouldn't have animals. Those who use sex and violence as an exercise of control and domination should NOT be able to freely express that on anyone, even animals. But having a healthy curiosity of sexuality should definitely be encouraged, rather than whatever we do here in the US. Most young adults have to fend for themselves, and often thrust right into the deep end of the internet.
 
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin is interesting in a vacuum.

And yes, a robust German economy is a fair trade for the lives of millions of Jews, Gypsies and Russians. Maybe the people who think that are fucked-up, too.

So, if someone beats your head in and takes your wallet or rapes your wife, remember that nothing is inherently good or bad. Send them a fruit basket, as you are not fit to judge.

While I understand some of the pitfalls of moral conviction, I'm not convinced that life is better without it.
Moral conviction has been the root cause of the most heinous offenses. It’s all in how you cast the incident, portray motive— as once again you did. You reduced nazism to economics. And tossed in assault, rape and robbery as if they had a place in this discussion. Convenient discursive posturing, to claim moral superiority. Self-indicted, you’ve illustrated the point again. You have to control the language, control the spin, to make something morally reprehensible.

But we’re zoos. We already know this. The story of the majority rules. Let’s hope most of us rise above the concept that someone else’s morality is “truth” just because it’s their “conviction” not our own.
 
Uh nah. Maybe we all feel ashamed at first, but soon you realize, you are who you are and you're gonna be with yourself for a very, very long time, so you might as well accept yourself and like what you like. To feel "ashamed" is to give a fuck. You tend to give less of a fuck the older you get.
 
No, I can't say that I've ever felt ashamed of being a zoo. It never felt wrong. I consider myself quite animal exclusive, would probably never find a human male attractive, but male equines...
 
If you are not OK (or are ashamed) with what you are doing. Then STOP doing it. Do something else. Or Change your mind and accept it. But being ashamed is counter productive. If you are ashamed of being a dog fucker then stop fucking dogs. It is just that simple. Me I have been attracted to female dogs for 50 years. Not going to stop now. I got a female golden lover who is velcro to me.

Just my 2 cents
 
I had hundreds of nights of guilt, shame, remorse, worry about myself - who I was, what I was, what I was becoming, would I get in deep trouble.... years of my life alternating between arousal and pleasure and concern about being sick and deviant.
 
I am a 23 y/o transguy who have always been into girls.
I also happen to have a rather low sex drive, and I am very content with being single and I do not crave for any sort of intimacy. Especially not emotionally.
But at the same time, I have also always been into male dogs. Which is weird because I'm not into human males at all really. At least I don't think so. I consider myself straight. Seriously. I am so confused by this.

I do not live by myself at the moment, and I have only been with a dog yeaaaars ago, but ever since then I have had, uh, a craving. But I hate it. It makes me feel ashamed. I don't understand why. Is it the taboo of it all? What else could it be? I want to keep it behind closed doors, but internally acting out on it would make me feel so ashamed, even though I really want to act on it someday.

Does anyone else feel the same?
I have been up and down on this and I figure it comes down to symbiosis. If your not forcing yourself on, or in, a defenseless animal but rather enjoying one another, than I feel comfortable with that. I have only jerked a dog off and a lot of peanut butter on my privates. I fantasize about having sex with a dog all the time!
 
I am not ashamed, in reality I have not yet experienced some sides of my libido that are very perverse, for now I am happy like this, I don't care about what others may think.
 
I would consider myself lucky, since I was so in the dark about zoophilia being a thing for most of my life, that I didn't form any strong opinions about it. I just assumed that the only option for me in life is to be with a human female. After a while I found out that just wasn't for me, but I did not feel ashamed. I can imagine a lot of people have shame, but to those I say LET IT GO. Trust your own moral compass and rationality, don't give into opressive norms.
That is not to say you should tell everyone, that'd be a disaster in current social climate.
 
I've just learned you can't fight it. I've always loved animals, I've always been kind to animals, and one day I saw animal dick and thought "whelp, that's fine!".

I don't ever plan on having sex with an animal though. I love watching people have sex with animals, or be fucked by animals, but I'd be perfectly fine if I never took part.

Does it blow that I can't bring up this kink to people casually like I can with, say- BDSM or edging or humiliation? Of course. But I'm not about to apologize for it either.
 
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