X1Rottweiler
Tourist
I think the vet really just wants to see a happy and healthy dog.
Vets and Suspision
- Thread starter chzny
- Start date
nekdoneco123
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
you never go to a vet?!
also, puffy vulva means literally nothing. some just are like that. it won't become puffier with "use" either.
Mn42as
Citizen of Zooville
First time i went to my vet she asked iff i want to neuter my lab, i just plain and simple said no, she actually said he would be growing up a real healthy male dog but would be pissing against everything ? she smiled while saying that and that whas that, she has 2 male Cane Corso's herself both also not neutered and she said i can understand your decision.
Cookiecaretaker
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
so u dont care about animal health? whats when dog is sick, do u let them suffer and die and just get a ,,new,, one?
nekdoneco123
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
omitting basic health check ups and vaccinations isn't "every country is different i guess", it's negligence.
there is no difference between vulva "that have fuck by man", they're flexible and don't get puffier or looser. they also get back to original shape pretty quickly after giving birth, like within few weeks (which is what i think you wrongly describe as "vulva that have fuck by man") .
JazzyPaws
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
No you don't, because unless you are watching the act, you cannot tell if a dog has been fucked. Her vulva springs back within minutes after, back to its original shape.
My girl has a puffy cookie, it was puffy before we started, and hasn't changed in the 400+ times we've mated, or the several times she's had my shepsky's knot.
My first girl had a nearly hidden vulva, no change there either was ever observed.
Cookiecaretaker
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
otherwise much doggys would look so: 
JazzyPaws
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Good god man! WTF is that monstrosity ?
nekdoneco123
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
i'd say typical feral furry art. "just a dog" or her paw pads being effing neon isn't "unique" enough.
This has been a very helpful thread! I have had similar questions regarding eventually getting a puppy and not getting him neutered. But you all make a fair point in regards to paying for a surgery that you think is unethical. Hoping I don't have to deal with that too much when I buy or adopt one.
Un Grand Loup
Tourist
I don't know how it is in your countries all but here in france, vets don't ask that much about it. Like, it's not a big thing. Got 3 vets in total and It was everytime like that, they just asked about it during an usual conversation and every time I told them (as I told to every person who asked actually) that I will see how the things go and we now are here, 6 years after and no one ever asked me again.
?
?
UR20Z
Dumpster Diver
You're mistaken. Unless you're stupid enough to fuck fido in the parking lot before going in for an exam, nobody is even remotely likely to be able to tell whether you've dicked your dog without taking samples and looking for sperm. (Unless you're doing injury due to being too big compared to the opening that's being used)
MalinkalyCutie
Tourist
Both my dogs still have their stuff intact. I think it's cruel to arbitrarily chop off animals genitals just because some people lack responsibility. There's nothing wrong with my dogs having genitals. They're born with them, they're supposed to have them, and unless they're life is in danger by having it, they're keeping them.
The most common response I hear when people find out my dogs have balls is "bUt cANceR" as if they all are just born with cancer and MUST have their nuts chopped off. It's so frustrating.
I haven't had any vets question it so far, but I would just say there's no reason why I should mutilate my perfectly healthy dog. It's inhumane imo.
The most common response I hear when people find out my dogs have balls is "bUt cANceR" as if they all are just born with cancer and MUST have their nuts chopped off. It's so frustrating.
I haven't had any vets question it so far, but I would just say there's no reason why I should mutilate my perfectly healthy dog. It's inhumane imo.
Unless they're faking it there are definitely people here who are at least that stupid, and a few who are way beyond.
UR20Z
Dumpster Diver
Testicular cancer is a (relatively) "no big deal" type of cancer. Yeah, if left to run its course, it's gonna be fatal, but it's usually very slow-moving, and you'll only rarely see it metastasize until it's *WAY* advanced - think "far enough along that he's almost certainly gonna die of it no matter what's done." The cure is usually 100% - Take off the involved testicle, and that's nearly always all that's needed. (Again, as long as it isn't very advanced when detected)Our vet did advise to spay him, just because of testicular cancer. We declined, on the basis of breeding him. Didn't tell him to whom tho
Franny&Zooey
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
I just checked your list. In all of New York State there are only three vets on it.There's actually a growing no spay no neuter movement in the pet community now that the health drawbacks are appearing more and more. Now we're opting for vasectomy and ovary sparing spays. Spaying can actually increase cancer risk in dogs. Join the fb group called "ovary sparing spay and vasectomy info group." The breeder I was looking at actually said they were against spaying and neutering for health reasons and gave a link to a group of vets that would do vasectomies & ovary sparing spays instead. On their page they said:
In the best interest of our dogs we are now recommending that you have your dog altered in a way that retains your dogs sex hormones without the risk of reproduction. Ovary sparing spays and vasectomy are now available for dogs. These procedures can be done as early as eight-months of age.
ARIZONA
Tom Phafman, DVM
Integrative Vet Med Center
615 W Deer Valley Rd #114
Phoenix, AZ 85027
(623) 594-6758
Offers ovary sparing spay, ovariectomy, vasectomy.
Veterinarian Directory
This directory is provided as a service to individuals seeking a veterinarian willing to perform procedures beyond traditional surgical spay or neuter.www.parsemus.org
The above link will take you to a list of veternarians across the United States that perform sex hormone spay and vasectomy procedures.
silvershadow777
Lurker
There's actually a growing no spay no neuter movement in the pet community now that the health drawbacks are appearing more and more. Now we're opting for vasectomy and ovary sparing spays. Spaying can actually increase cancer risk in dogs. Join the fb group called "ovary sparing spay and vasectomy info group." The breeder I was looking at actually said they were against spaying and neutering for health reasons and gave a link to a group of vets that would do vasectomies & ovary sparing spays instead. On their page they said:
In the best interest of our dogs we are now recommending that you have your dog altered in a way that retains your dogs sex hormones without the risk of reproduction. Ovary sparing spays and vasectomy are now available for dogs. These procedures can be done as early as eight-months of age.
ARIZONA
Tom Phafman, DVM
Integrative Vet Med Center
615 W Deer Valley Rd #114
Phoenix, AZ 85027
(623) 594-6758
Offers ovary sparing spay, ovariectomy, vasectomy.
Veterinarian Directory
This directory is provided as a service to individuals seeking a veterinarian willing to perform procedures beyond traditional surgical spay or neuter.www.parsemus.org
The above link will take you to a list of veternarians across the United States that perform sex hormone spay and vasectomy procedures.
Breeders are NOT Veterinarians, they never went to 10 years of schooling to learn anything, they have no expertise outside of what they've gleaned through peers and Facebook posts. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE HEALTH ADVICE FROM BREEDERS.
Also, it's not hard to find crackpot doctors of all kinds promoting unscientific reasons for new procedures as a means of making a name for themselves in the field. I wish I could say Veterinarians were above this, but they aren't. The vast vast vast majority of them truly have your pet's best interests at heart, but some of them will sell any lie at all if it puts a dollar in their pocket.
Spaying and neutering is safe and ethical.
We didn't just start spaying and neutering 5 years ago. It's been closer to 90 years. Health drawbacks are not "appearing more and more" suddenly. Health problems are being erroneously blamed on neutering by people who are looking for ANY excuse to oppose it.
You wanna fuck your dogs, hey cool. It's fun. I get it. But it is immoral to come up with bullshit excuses to keep them intact just so you can have sex with them. Follow your vet's recommendations.
E
egoldstein
Guest
I largely agree with all you said, but there are disadvantages to spay/neuter that were largely unknown until more recently; issues such as incidence of cancers being increased, bone and joint development issues due to early spay/neuter, etc.
That said, there are still a lot of issues resolved by it. With regard to many large breed bitches I'm largely pro-spay after they're adults, pyometra is a shitty way to die.
nekdoneco123
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
how can screwing one's hormone levels for life ever be either of those?
and yes, health drawbacks didn't start appearing all of a sudden. they were always there, it's just a fairly recent thing that some ppl started looking if there even are any.
it's fucking sad it came to ppl having to have a good reason/argument why not mutilate and not the other way around.
E
egoldstein
Guest
Flipside, how can allowing a companion to get pyometra be ethical? For some breeds the chances are extremely high and contribute to the low average life expectancies.
It's not like this is a clear-cut all or nothing for either proposition, there are issues that spay prevents (not so much neuter that I know of) and there are issues that it can cause. Risks are often breed specific and should be considered as part of the decision. Not spaying, especially in breeds such as the Great Dane, comes with a 62% chance of pyometra by age 10; avoiding that and the high liklihood of a miserable death is not insignificant. The rates of mammary cancer can also be significant; however, to see any reduction in the rate one needs to spay before the age of 3 according to the most recent papers I have read (not a vet, but I try to read papers that are relevant)
Edit: For hormone levels, there's the OSS (Ovary Sparing Spay) which retains the ovaries, but yeets the uterus; thus, retaining much of the hormonal balance without the risk of pyometra....in theory as I haven't read many papers on this. My understaning is that it does not reduce the risks of mammary cancers, so might not be the preferred option for those breeds where that is a major issue. I would appreciate info on OSS papers.
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nekdoneco123
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
what keeps you from going on regular check ups if you know the specific potential risks? even more so for pyometra which is very spot-able if you know what to look for. i'd say the average zoo would keep that in mind, especially if they have a "extremely high chance breed". not to mention "we" are generally way closer with our partners than an average "dog person" to spot any changes or something being off.
it's weird putting a permanent solution for something that might not even happen. like cutting your legs off so you can't break them...
E
egoldstein
Guest
Given the number of zoos who've had companions die from pyo, I'm not sure I agree it's so spottable; it can be, but not always. I've seen 2 vets miss it. It doesn't take long for pyo to kill, if one is lucky and catches it early it's jst an enormous vet bill. That's a big gamble for high-risk breeds; is it worth that gamble? It is for some. I'm not saying everyone should, I just want people to understand the risks because so often in these threads people argue there aren't any and it's just done for convenience. I've posted it before, but here's a link to a study on the incidence of pyometra.
Not expecting any answers, but serious question for eveyone with a bitch, do you know what to look for?
Unless a person is in the habit of palpating, would they even know if something was off? "Is it supposed to feel like that?"
Caribguy50
Tourist
yea spading is kinda cruel tbh but i personallly wouldnt do it as i wouldnt want that happen to me if i were a dog
silvershadow777
Lurker
And the ethical question that comes into play here is - is it worth the risk, just so you can have sex with your pet?
People are latching onto existent but minimal risks associated with spays and neuters as reason not to do it. The fact is that the risks of NOT spaying or neutering are more severe. They're using pet lust as a reason to justify it, whether they want to admit it or not. That their pet's satisfaction in life is greatly improved if they can fuck you or you can fuck them. They're dogs - the happiest they'll EVER be is laying their head on your lap while you pet them. My dog still likes his dick sucked despite being neutered. No, it's not as fun as it would be if he were intact. Agreed. But who is it about? Me or him? He sure as hell seems to enjoy it regardless... should I keep him intact just so he cums all over me, for MY satisfaction? Because that's the buried logic of some people here.
ADreamOfLiberty
ZooVille Philanthropist
... they're individuals. There may be a bell curve but you are in no position to know what makes every dog in the world happiest and even if that was their favorite activity that doesn't mean other things aren't valuable.
Both
Perhaps having your dick sucked only comes second to pets if you've been castrated.
You assume too much.
silvershadow777
Lurker
Though it would seem that you are in a position to decide that it's OK to keep them intact just so you can fulfill a fetish.
ADreamOfLiberty
ZooVille Philanthropist
As you cannot read the minds of all dogs, you cannot read my mind.