Should using bait in licking videos be banned (please read first)?

[widget46]

This is the stupidest thread I've ever read holy shit. Not one single cognitive argument for how it can possibly be animal abuse. You retards just love putting human morality onto animals because you think we're the same. Probably the same neckbeards who only date animals

but when people have problems with bestiality topics they dont really persecute it because of the morality. they do it to show themselves off as superior to others and for excuses to take anything and exclude other people. they just want excuses to hurt other people because that is more attractive to them than animals.
i dont agree with porno anyways but im saying why bother nobody wants to see a dog lick peanut butter and it makes sex somewhat illegitimate. no worries do what you want.

 

[HyperWoof]

but when people have problems with bestiality topics they dont really persecute it because of the morality. they do it to show themselves off as superior to others and for excuses to take anything and exclude other people. they just want excuses to hurt other people because that is more attractive to them than animals.
i dont agree with porno anyways but im saying why bother nobody wants to see a dog lick peanut butter and it makes sex somewhat illegitimate. no worries do what you want.

True.
I don't care if they ban peanut butter videos, they are stupid and cringe anyways. But make that your argument instead of saying its animal abuse

 

[Daddy'sPuppy]

I've never liked those videos. It's forcing your dog and it's not natural and it's just.. yucky.

It's too bad that there's just too many peanut butter bait videos out there of dogs "lovingly licking a woman's pussy" yet he's coaxed by food? lol

*I'm not here to say whether it's abuse or not, I'm just weighing in that I also don't like those videos as they're not my cup of tea.

 

[Goattobeloved]

While I am not against using PB, and if someone wants to experiment I would tell to go ahead and try it once, get your curiosity over, no harm done.
BUT using it in videos is just. Plain. Stupid. Porn.

I mean, a lady eating spaggetty from whatever surface of your choice, sure she likes them.
But it would make a VERY lousy porn video...

So the media about it, just flush it.

 

[HyperWoof]

I've seen numerous people use the phrase "it forces the dog to lick"
It's hilarious how many people don't know what the simply ass word force means

 

[Reconscope]

I've seen numerous people use the phrase "it forces the dog to lick"
It's hilarious how many people don't know what the simply ass word force means

Are there dogs that "refuse" peanut butter? So far as I know it's the common stereotype. Therefore instinct to eat overrides common social drivers of human expectations

 

[Zooprepper51]

I didn't know it was banned here, tbh. Licking is not a sexual act to any animal. They're going to do it for one of four reasons. The first is because there is presently a desirable substance on the person ("bait"). The second is because it's a bonding/grooming behavior, but has nothing to do with sex. The third is because they were trained and commanded to. The fourth is that they have learned if they do it long enough they will get a reward, regardless of whether or not this was purposeful training. So, regardless of whether you give them the reward as encouragement or produce it as a result of them successfully completing the act, this is positive reinforcement training. It's mutually beneficial, but for entirely different reasons for each respective partner. You don't have to like it, but the fact of the matter is your dog doesn't lick your balls because it turns them or you on. They do it more often than not because they expect to be rewarded for their efforts or because they simply enjoy doing it. For them, there is no sexual component whatsoever.

 

[Oldman]

@HyperWoof i get your point.

This is the way I see it. PB (or other) use to entice a lick looks like taking advantage of said animal purely for our own sexual gratification without sexual gratification in return. Yes, the dog does get gratification from the taste or treat, but it is not the same. And yes, that is putting a human quality to something the doggo does not possess (morals). I see it similar to a superior exchanging sex for reward to a subordanate for preferential treatment or whatever. (We all know it's illegal, but it still happens).

Does it harm the doggo? No.
Is it morally wrong? In my opinion (and shared by many) yes.
Will we ban someone for it? No. Delete with verbal on first, delete with warning on second, ban on third but reason would be repeated rule breaking.

If we don't add or simulate morals on the doggo, are we no different than the others that purely abuse, hurt and kill animals?

 

[egoldstein]

Are there dogs that "refuse" peanut butter? So far as I know it's the common stereotype. Therefore instinct to eat overrides common social drivers of human expectations

It's not an instinct to eat, they don't consume everything that fit in their mouths (usually). They consume foods that taste good.
If offering a food reward is abuse, how do you teach your dogs without abusing them? It's lazy, it's ignorant, but it's not abuse.

 

[Zeta_Z92]

Personally disagree with it, if he/she does sexual things off they're own back, that's consent to me, baiting is tricking them into it imo

 

[Shabumi]

Force and abuse? My definition of force and abuse would be a whip or a cattle prod or even harsh verbal shouting etc. Deception and baiting? This is a very slippery slope. Should we give our pets a consent form produced by Ai that only pets trained in a laboratory to communicate with can understand? Baiting is a term applied to hunting. Some consider it unethical to use food bait to attract wild game to hunt them. Domesticated animals first role was working and contributing to whatever group they were a part of. Work could be hunting, herding, guarding, hauling etc. Do we now object to working animals? Is it unethical to train a horse to pull a cart or carriage? How is an animal in the role of sexual servant or surrogate somehow different than a dog trained to detect mines in a war, find drugs or be a guide dog?

 

[HugDoggy]

Force and abuse? My definition of force and abuse would be a whip or a cattle prod or even harsh verbal shouting etc. Deception and baiting? This is a very slippery slope. Should we give our pets a consent form produced by Ai that only pets trained in a laboratory to communicate with can understand? Baiting is a term applied to hunting. Some consider it unethical to use food bait to attract wild game to hunt them. Domesticated animals first role was working and contributing to whatever group they were a part of. Work could be hunting, herding, guarding, hauling etc. Do we now object to working animals? Is it unethical to train a horse to pull a cart or carriage? How is an animal in the role of sexual servant or surrogate somehow different than a dog trained to detect mines in a war, find drugs or be a guide dog?

I think it depends how you see the animal, if as you put it they are a "sexual servant or surrogate" then no they are being coaxed or rewarded into performing an action in all the roles you mentioned. If however you see the animal as a partner and want them to be happy and to only do what they want to do, when it comes to their body and how they interact with you; then using baiting or encouragement to lick or pleasure you sexually is seen as taking some of the control and autonomy out of their paws and inserting your own will over theirs. While I can't speak about female genitalia, most dogs will sniff and lick a penis completely of their own free will if they are interested in doing so with no food involved to encourage them to perform the act. I can say this with a certainty after 45 years and... ahem, a large sample size of canines to base this on.

 

[Shabumi]

I think it depends how you see the animal, if as you put it they are a "sexual servant or surrogate" then no they are being coaxed or rewarded into performing an action in all the roles you mentioned. If however you see the animal as a partner and want them to be happy and to only do what they want to do, when it comes to their body and how they interact with you; then using baiting or encouragement to lick or pleasure you sexually is seen as taking some of the control and autonomy out of their paws and inserting your own will over theirs. While I can't speak about female genitalia, most dogs will sniff and lick a penis completely of their own free will if they are interested in doing so with no food involved to encourage them to perform the act. I can say this with a certainty after 45 years and... ahem, a large sample size of canines to base this on.

You totally skip over the part about training an animal and socializing it for whatever role it will take. Even Sheep dogs that have been bred to herd and have a strong herding instinct need training and behavior modification that are in part based on rewards that include food. No domesticated animal is allowed to only do what they want to do as you describe it. Such an approach would be reckless and irresponsible.

 

[HugDoggy]

You totally skip over the part about training an animal and socializing it for whatever role it will take. Even Sheep dogs that have been bred to herd and have a strong herding instinct need training and behavior modification that are in part based on rewards that include food.

Did I? I said in all the roles you suggested (that is in all the function a dog is used to help us perform a goal) they are coaxed or rewarded into performing the action that was desired. Training the sheep dog to use their natural skills in the way we need to get the sheep into the yards, or stop the sheep wandering off if say a GSD is being used as a mobile fence.

I am drawing the line with sexual contact where using rewards or coercion blurs the line between what the dog is doing because they want to do it for the pure enjoyment of doing so, as apposed to doing it because they get a food reward for doing something they wouldn't otherwise be doing. If they wouldn't do it without the food reward then they aren't really doing it because they enjoy it, but because doing so pays off in other ways.

No domesticated animal is allowed to only do what they want to do as you describe it. Such an approach would be reckless and irresponsible.

At no point have I said outside of sex you should just give a dog full license to do what ever they want when they want, that is going to see them get hurt or worse if they aren't given guidance and bounds in a human world.

 

[Goattobeloved]

most dogs will sniff and lick a penis completely of their own free will if they are interested in doing so with no food involved to encourage them to perform the act

This discussion is becoming old fast. I am not in for PB, but certainly do not see it as abuse, and I think the point is in your post.

I have exactly the same experience. They will usually do it on their free will for nothing. I someone wants to add some food to that, happier dog, I guess ?

However. If the dog is not willing to, and food is used to convince him, well THAT would be an ethically low point.

And in general, videos of that are about zero interest.

 

[HugDoggy]

This discussion is becoming old fast. I am not in for PB, but certainly do not see it as abuse, and I think the point is in your post.

I have exactly the same experience. They will usually do it on their free will for nothing. I someone wants to add some food to that, happier dog, I guess ?

However. If the dog is not willing to, and food is used to convince him, well THAT would be an ethically low point.

And in general, videos of that are about zero interest.

You summed up my thoughts exactly.

 

[Shabumi]

Did I? I said in all the roles you suggested (that is in all the function a dog is used to help us perform a goal) they are coaxed or rewarded into performing the action that was desired. Training the sheep dog to use their natural skills in the way we need to get the sheep into the yards, or stop the sheep wandering off if say a GSD is being used as a mobile fence.

I am drawing the line with sexual contact where using rewards or coercion blurs the line between what the dog is doing because they want to do it for the pure enjoyment of doing so, as apposed to doing it because they get a food reward for doing something they wouldn't otherwise be doing. If they wouldn't do it without the food reward then they aren't really doing it because they enjoy it, but because doing so pays off in other ways.

At no point have I said outside of sex you should just give a dog full license to do what ever they want when they want, that is going to see them get hurt or worse if they aren't given guidance and bounds in a human world.

Why would you draw the line with sexual contact? How is sex any different from any other instinctual behavior like hunting, herding, or guarding?

 

[HugDoggy]

Why would you draw the line with sexual contact? How is sex any different from any other instinctual behavior like hunting, herding, or guarding?

Because sex shouldn't be a job it should be fun and completely voluntary, nothing should happen good or bad if you don't want to participate because your not really in the mood or don't really enjoy the particular act being requested by the human.

If you want to put it into instinctual terms
If you don't hunt you don't eat
If you don't herd, hunting or keeping the pups from wandering off can be harder
If you don't guard another predator might take your pups.

When dealing with an animal partner it is the humans responsibility to learn what the animal does and doesn't enjoy when it comes to sexual contact, and only do the things that can be enjoyed by both parties. If you introduce the variable of a food reward for an action, then you lose the ability to determine what the dog is really telling you: Are they truly enjoying it and happy to initiate the action because they like doing it, or are they doing it just for the reward.

A sex worker might give you a blow job, it may or may not be enjoyable for them to do, but in most cases they are doing it not because it is enjoyable, but because they get a reward (money) for performing the act.

In a loving sexual relationship though coaxing, coercion or rewards should not be needed or used to get your partner to do something, if they don't want to do that particular thing, do something else they do enjoy or let them be.

As I tried to say at the start of this discussion with you it's all how you see the dog:
Are they your partner, you love and respect and want them to be a willing participant.
Or
Are they a tool you use to get sexual pleasure so their true wishes are secondary to the goal of getting off.