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Opinions on neutering?

^ This. And regarding health issues, the biggest problem is that many of them that are commonly solved by normal, non-mutilating methods in humans are "solved" by castration in animals by most vets - either because it is easier for the vet or it gets them more money. Also, if a human is castrated, they usually have to take androgen/estrogen hormones for the rest of their life because their own body is not able to synthesize them anymore. They have to because there are many physical health issues and mental issues connected to bad hormone levels. On the other hand, if an animal is castrated, nobody cares.
 
Unless there is a legitimate medical need for it (and I don't mean because you don't want them having puppies. I mean like life or death situation), definitely not.
 
CanisLupus said:
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Spay incontinence happened to one of my dogs. Had to have her on medicine for a few years and then she stopped needing it. I can't say for sure if any other negative effects happened to her. She might have had a bladder infection later in her life, but it was a one time thing. My current boy gained weight when neutered and stopped cleaning himself for the most part so he's overall dirtier. Also, I've seen these two things commonly in my parent's pets as well. There's very little reason to neuter imo.
 
Neutering dogs is as effective in population control as spraying bugs pray into your backyard to finally get rid of wasps.

Here in Germany, neutering dogs is illegal, and now guess how mutch strays we have? Basicly zero. You won't find a stray dog in Germany. Here, if a dog breaks out and runs free, it does not take more than an houre, and the owner of that dog has the police at his doorstep, bringing him back his dog, and probably fining him.

It's convince mutilation of an innocent animal. Nothing more. You people in the USA do it for the same reason you circumcise baby's. Because its been this way since forever.

A strict law to chip all dogs, crackdown on illegal breeders, and actual competent ownership is a thousand times more effective than cutting off the genitals of dogs.
 
My observations have been that the large majority of zoophiles oppose neutering (for obvious reasons). My opinion is that 'it depends' and there are/can be valid reasons to neuter (and spay). We don't live in an ideal world and overall too few humans are compassionate, enlightened caretakers/keepers to animals. Being deeply involved in animal rescue and welfare I'm strongly anti-breeding in virtually all instances with few exceptions. Until there are loving, lifelong homes for every animal I view breeding as adding to the issue rather than being a part of it's solution.
 
SaltyDog said:
Well, true enough. But isn't a link just "one way"? Meaning, if links were allowed to somewhere, that "somewhere" wouldn't know to link back here... would they?

I'm asking... ?
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The link cannot be returned, one way. However, it is unnecessary to link anything, zoos know that neutering is pointless and just propaganda for simple stupid non-zoo people and money for veterinarians and animal protectionists.
 
bobbybobz said:
My family is much for neutering animals as a form of population and behavior control. I disagree, thinking neutering is pretty fucked up, because there are better alternatives like vasectomies or training your dog use a something else to mount on. When they need to release. (I’m just saying this because it’s not generally common for people to let dogs mount humans)

Idk, what are your opinions on this?
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Look, this happened recently and it's a tough subject to talk about. It is important that Tyson did have tumor on his right front paw ON TOP OF HIS SHOULDER (it was obivous and was NOT under the skin.) that was going to get removed.

I had four dogs (now three) one was the father; one was the mother and I had kept two of their babies out of the ten. Max (the son) is a very good boy, but kinda special if you get what I mean. Evony (the daughter) looks just like her daddy. Tyson (the dad) is like, a very very big boy, then Trixie (the mama). Now I wasn't having any trouble with Max or Tyson in the beginning, they were okay, but Tyson was sort of shy.

Well one day out of nowhere Tyson had attacked max, luckily my brother was over and stopped them before they got hurt. I was worried because nothing like that had happened before. They got into several fights after that, luckily no one got hurt.. until I was sick one day and could barely talk. I had let them inside and Tyson launched at Max grabbed his neck. I couldn't scream or yell for them to stop. I heard a big yelp and Max got of off Tyson. Tyson got up and acted like he was okay. The next day he had a little limp which I didn't think anything of it. Two days after that fight, I realized Tyson couldn't lift his head up, and he was still limping. I freaked out and took him to the vet. He had fluid all in his neck, Max had broken the skin in the fight. The worst news was Tyson had another small tumor above his shoulder. Max had only aggerated in the fight.

A month goes by with Tyson on Antibiotics, he's okay. Then he couldn't walk, the painkillers had stopped working for him. Tyson could not walk correctly without hobbling around. Four days after him stuck in his kennel, whimpering in pain.. I had put him to sleep on May 2nd.

It was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.. and I truly do wish I would have gotten one of my males neutered because my sweet baby boy would still be here. Yes, it is wrong, but sometimes it has to be done.
 
SaltyDog said:
I love the point you're trying to make here, but your numbers are way way off. Try 8 billion. Google it.

Only trying to help... ?
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... That's disappointing... I wonder when is the population limit gonna be "alright that's enough we should stop making more"
 
Reconscope said:
... That's disappointing... I wonder when is the population limit gonna be "alright that's enough we should stop making more"
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It seems more like they were pointing out the underestimate of the argument.

We have already passed the point of it being “way too many people”

But neutering people still shouldn’t be the option we ever gravitate to. Just let gay people live their lives and improve the distribution of food we already make and we can keep limping society along for a few more decades before the heat literally cooks us.
 
SaltyDog said:
Well, true enough. But isn't a link just "one way"? Meaning, if links were allowed to somewhere, that "somewhere" wouldn't know to link back here... would they?

I'm asking... ?
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it is one way and they wouldn't know you linked it nor from where, but the mention of some facebook group (if you'd also name it) would still be there for someone who looks for dirt hard enough to see. same reason you shouldn't post your name or face pic. better to not leave any clue. it's not like someone googles your name and zooville instantly comes up. it's just there will always be malicious ppl with way too much free time. better be safe.
 
Kusaragi said:
It seems more like they were pointing out the underestimate of the argument.

We have already passed the point of it being “way too many people”

But neutering people still shouldn’t be the option we ever gravitate to. Just let gay people live their lives and improve the distribution of food we already make and we can keep limping society along for a few more decades before the heat literally cooks us.
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Are people purposely going the overpopulated route? Just for the sake of it? Do they know that they are screwing over the ecosystem as a whole?
 
SaltyDog said:
I do feel, however, that increasing the numbers about not mutilating our animals on such a platform as FaceBook does have benefits. My point isn't to complain about not having links, but rather to stir up more interest in joining such groups so as to better "spread the gospel" of non-cruel methods.
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The problem is that the average non-zoo person is an idiot, a fanatic. You can say anything to them and they will still answer that sterilization is good. I have written a lot of comments in such cases in recent years, it made no sense at all, because nothing can be done against a fanatic.
Reconscope said:
I wonder when is the population limit gonna be "alright that's enough we should stop making more"
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Im exclzoo.:gsd_wink:
nekdoneco123 said:
it is one way and they wouldn't know you linked it nor from where, but the mention of some facebook group (if you'd also name it) would still be there for someone who looks for dirt hard enough to see. same reason you shouldn't post your name or face pic. better to not leave any clue. it's not like someone googles your name and zooville instantly comes up. it's just there will always be malicious ppl with way too much free time. better be safe.
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This is true. If someone is very patient and skillful, they can compare the comments based on word usage and sentence structure. With this method I found a lot of zoophiles on Facebook who speak my native language.
 
Kusaragi said:
It seems more like they were pointing out the underestimate of the argument.

We have already passed the point of it being “way too many people”

But neutering people still shouldn’t be the option we ever gravitate to. Just let gay people live their lives and improve the distribution of food we already make and we can keep limping society along for a few more decades before the heat literally cooks us.
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I think you're on the right answer; we've ben here before, not the exact situation, but at the point where the population and our ability to provide start getting close. Malthus talks about it in 1798 in his "An Essay on the Principle of Population". As our tech improves we maintain more and more people until we reach the point where resources start to get thin. As the cost of those resources go up, the cost of implementing the tech solutions is deemed more reasonable or the cost of researching new solutions becomes more rewarding. We then implement some fixes and kick the can a few more generations down the road. We can provide for all and then some today, we just don't due to a number of factors.
We even have solutions for the climate issues too, but everything comes with trade offs. At this moment it would seem those capable of implementing are not motivated to do so for a variety of reasons.
 
Reconscope said:
Are people purposely going the overpopulated route? Just for the sake of it? Do they know that they are screwing over the ecosystem as a whole?
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are you seriously asking if any person asks themselves "isn't there too many ppl?" before creating new life with their partner? or think what that does to the eco system? or do it "on purpose" to overpopulate more? are you off your meds again?
 
MashaSobaka said:
This is true. If someone is very patient and skillful, they can compare the comments based on word usage and sentence structure. With this method I found a lot of zoophiles on Facebook who speak my native language.
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i meant it more in a way that let's say: @SaltyDog drops the name of the group here. some random "all dogs should be castrated" person doesn't really like them and looks for a way to get that group canceled (canceling stuff one doesn't like being kind of popular nowadays). said random person spends their night (the loudest usually seem to also have the most free time for some reason) looking for mentions of the group around the internet. after some time their search lands here (on a public, freely searchable forum) on zooville.
now, they don't even need to read through anything, the group being mentioned on a forum for animal molesters is enough to "make sense" why they'd be anti-neuter. they take the case of "hey, this group is secretly zoophiles" to admins of facebook and we all know how quick is facebook with anything "not-so-wholesome" (they don't care about truth) and the group disappeared. for no reason besides one person (well two persons, the malicious one also likely believes they "do good") thinking they'd do some good by mentioning them.

i didn't mean it like him mentioning that group and they all somehow get doxxed or whatever.
 
LuvelyLeda said:
Where's this from? It's a good little infobomb.
This topic is one of the reasons why we ended up with our vet. The first vet we went to was really pushy and got defensive whenever I asked questions about his advice to try and understand why he's telling me to do something; he was really sus and it didn't take long for me to get rid of him. I love the vet we have now, the topic of neutering came up and she even printed me a scientific paper to read to get me informed on why I should or shouldn't. I dunno if it is, but it should be a crime for a vet to pressure someone into making decisions.
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My vet is like my doctor, lawyer, or any other professional whom I refer to for their advice; they're specialists in their field and I consult with them; they don't make decisions, they advise and guide. The few I've met who behaved otherwise didn't get my return business.
It probably helps that I try to educate myself on the subject and that I ask questions and drive the session as often as not and they likely see that I am seriously interested in the health and care of my companions. I've even been known to bring them papers and reference materials covering specific topics I'm dealing with, partly because I want my vet's practice to be as well informed and equiped as possible to help me manage care.
 
Fortunately, my vets are not propaganda idiots. Neutering is only mentioned if someone keeps both male and female dogs together, or if the fence is in poor condition.
Otherwise, no, only if medically necessary (tumor, pyo, etc.)
That would be a normal thinking.
 
knotjen said:
I adopted Pluto as a one year old, intact male. I brought him to my usual vet for his first checkup, shots, the usual things.
After all that was done, the vet asked me "Would Friday morning or Monday afternoon be better for you?"
"For what?"
"Neutering."
"I don't know, what do you think Pluto? Do you want your nuts chopped off so you are more likely to get prostate cancer?"
Pluto, as if on cue, let out a healthy and deep "Vooooooooof", not that he had a clue what I asked.
"There you go Doctor, we'll pass."
Then the vet went on a little bit about male dog spraying, aggressive behavior towards humans and other dogs, and went as far as to say I'd be an irresponsible dog owner if I didn't have it done.
Me, being me, I asked, "Did you neuter your kids? No?" The vet gave me a pissed-off look, paused, and walked away. The orderly who assisted with the visit rang up my bill. She half-whispered "Good for you" while I was writing the check.
Dogs are made a certain way for a certain reason. God, genetic efficiency, evolution, pick one or any it really doesn't matter. Why change a darn good design?
Oh, right, human convenience.
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Although the vet didn't ask me this, some of my friends have already asked. I gave them 100 times more jerky answers. Don't worry, they haven't been asked about it more than once. :ROFLMAO:
 
knotjen said:
Then the vet went on a little bit about male dog spraying, aggressive behavior towards humans and other dogs, and went as far as to say I'd be an irresponsible dog owner if I didn't have it done.
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I'd have a look at this paper, perhaps mention it if it ever comes up again.
www.frontiersin.org

Frontiers | Aggression toward Familiar People, Strangers, and Conspecifics in Gonadectomized and Intact Dogs

Gonadectomy is widely used to treat and prevent behavior problems including the aggressive behavior of dogs. The aim of this study was to determine whether a...
www.frontiersin.org www.frontiersin.org
Key take-away is neutering doesn't appear to reduce aggression, but inversely to what is commonly believed, seems to be increased by it.
 
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SaltyDog said:
@nekdoneco123 U have me absolutely slack-jawed! Wow! I never even thought about this angle! Your arguments are brilliant! OK... My hats off to you. I often tend to see the good in other people, and you remind me to not be so naive.

Thank you... ?
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seeing various news articles about what kind of length are some ppl willing to go to have something no matter how insignificant go their way (even more so if they believe theirs is the "good" or "right" way) makes one a more cautious (and admittedly way more bitter) person. dash of personal experience and there's that....
 
as my current dog was my first dog i didnt know what i was doing. my dog is a small dog so no plan of any sexual interaction so lets get that out of the way lol. i adopted him from a breeder who wpuld only allow the dogs to be adopted after they were neutered and spayed. she does this at around 10 weeks of age very young as a result of this my dogs genitals never matured with the correct hormone levels and yet he still humps i really don’t see the point of neutering dogs. the breeder said she did this to avoid her dogs being adopted by puppy mills i think she has the right intentions but its not what is best for the dogs
 
labluv658 said:
she does this at around 10 weeks of age very young
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Americans are not fucking normal. Not only in the field of animals, but also in many other cases.
It is not enough that there are states where neuter is mandatory, there is strong propaganda in other states as well (much stronger than in Europe) and they also do it on such young animals.
The hungarian animal protection act stipulates that it is not possible to perform surgery on an immature animal.
They operate to neuter at 6 months at the earliest for those who want it.
 
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