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Met up with someone, horrible experience

Hmm... things just got a bit more spicy up in this thread.

The things is, I’m a nice guy. I know what it’s like to not have a dog, it’s the fucking worst. And I don’t want anyone to feel that pain. So naturally, I want to help. As long as they’re cool and trustworthy. But when I stop and think about it...I’m the only in with anything to lose. People are only out to take advantage of the nice guy. That’s life.

People can try and shame me. I don’t really care. I did what I felt was right. My dogs are sleeping next to me safe and sound. That’s all I care about.
I've said this numerous times, and I'll gladly say it again. For me to feel comfortable enough to allow someone to meet me and especially meet my beloved animal partners it takes YEARS of chatting with said individual. I'm always on the lookout for inconsistencies, lying, sketchy stories, and other major red flags. Even if I've been talking to said individual for months and I'm to the point where I'm feeling a little bit more comfortable with them, I'm still looking out for these, and other red flags. If you're smart you tend to keep your identity anonymous, but with this anonymity comes the very real possibility that the person you're chatting with on the other side of the screen is not who they portray themselves to be. One of the only exception to the "YEARS" rule is if the other person can be vouched for by 1 or 2 of my trusted zoo friends that I am 100% confident are legitimate. Only then will I let my guard down a bit.

Look, I have no pony in this race, and I have no dog in this dog show. I am not here to takes sides on this matter. I too know what it's like to be without an animal partner and I have made my fair share of mistakes when I was younger to get some animal coochie. We all have to learn from our mistakes, and those with animal partners absolutely need to protect them from a world where getting caught my lead to your animals being destroyed and disposed of by authorities, and yourself landing in jail, turning your life into utter shambles of what it once was. On the flip side, someone offering their "animal partners up for sex" may just as well be a LEO or a LEA wanting to make a quick bust with a desperate person seeking quick and dirty sex with an animal, any animal! There's plenty of risk for both sides of the coin.

Again not taking side, just calling it how I see it.
 
Really didn’t want to post this but y’all need to see the other side.
First off, I am the person OP is referring to. The one who “ghosted” him.
Most of what he said was true. Yes we did chat a lot, yes I did agree to meet up. It was his idea to meet up, not mine. I figured I’d give it a shot, but I didn’t like the idea of anyone coming to my house or knowing where I live. I put my safety and my dogs safety above all others. So I suggested the hotel room where we could chill. Maybe play video games or something. That somehow turned into a sexual meetup, which I was not ok with and it got away from me. We got along well and OP seemed cool so I more or less went along with it. I said fuck it, I’ll give it a shot. As OP said, I sympathize with those who can’t have a dog for whatever reason and I wanted to help. So we agree on a date and time and the whole hotel thing...which I had absolutely no idea it would cost $800. That’s behind insane. All the ones I looked at were sub-$100. Regardless, we kept talking and OP kept mentioning things he was gonna try with my dog. Asked me to trim his ass hairs so he could try anal. This gave me the worst knot in my stomach. The idea of someone else fucking MY dog...nope, didn’t like that. But it somehow got away from me and I didn’t end it when I should have. The blame there is on me.
But I figured I’d give the meet up a shot, he seemed cool in chat so maybe he was IRL too. So fast forward to the meet...I’m just gonna be 100% honest dude, you sketched me the fuck out. Like you honestly made me genuinely nervous. You didn’t say a god damn word to me. I tried to talk to you, ask you questions, start a conversation with you as normal people do when they meet for the first time...you said maybe 3 whole words in the hour that we were there. You followed way far behind me and stared at my dogs the whole time. You didn’t make a single effort to engage with me. I dropped my dogs leash by accident not 3 inches from your foot and you just stood there and watched as he ran away. Not to mention my shep kept alerting to you. He sensed something off and I trust his gut on that. I don’t know what else to say other than you sketched me out. Obviously you were nervous or awkward, whatever. I get that. I’ve met up with a couple other zoos who were just as nervous and awkward if not more, and within 10 mins we were talking and having a full conversation and they met my dogs and now we’re cool. We got over that. My biggest thing and the reason I don’t go out of my way to meet people from this damn site is because people only want to use me for my dogs. And from my perspective, that’s the same impression I got from you. You were genuine in your chats, but our IRL experience said otherwise. Anyone can fake being nice or fake a personality behind a chat. It’s how they act in perish that shows who they really are. I don’t like the way I handled things, I do apologize for that. But I didnt know what to do. I talked to a few of my zoo friends, and they agreed with me. So I went with my gut. Like I’ve told you 100 times before, I will never put my dogs safety at risk or put them in a bad situation. NEVER. Again, I’m sorry how things turned out. I’m sorry that you wasted money on gas and the room. Had you told me you were gonna spend $800 I would’ve told you to find a different hotel. But you didn’t tell me. I’m sorry for all of it, but i did what I thought was right for me and my dogs. Hate me or don’t, i don’t care. There’s always 2 sides...
All that is as may be....you should not have agreed in the first place if you had doubts. There are a zillion Starbucks in this world....in Boston, do you know how you find one? You just look across the street from a Starbucks.
You could have left the critter out of it, you could have called a halt before money was laid out....I've done ten first meets. With the exception of my forever girl who passed, the others are all still friends.
Dont say "yes" if you arent gonna be there. Might sound harsh, but fair is fair.
 
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I feel this from the owner side of things. As soon as I read the OP, saying "he ghosted me after meeting in person." Not going to lie, I've done the exact same. Because sometimes these people trying to get their first time with an animal lose all sense (or never had it). I've had guys try to get a finger in my dog at a public park. I've had a girl try to get under my dog to blow him 2 minutes after meeting, and my dog was climbing furniture and stepping on her to get away. (She also showed me pics many years, and pounds earlier in life which is as good as lying) On both occasions I quickly made a bullshit excuse and left.
 
On the flip side, someone offering their "animal partners up for sex" may just as well be a LEO or a LEA wanting to make a quick bust with a desperate person seeking quick and dirty sex with an animal, any animal!
Uh, wouldn't this mean that law enforcement instigates a crime? Are they allowed to do that in the US? I would expect authorities to prevent crime, not to create it.
 
I feel this from the owner side of things. As soon as I read the OP, saying "he ghosted me after meeting in person." Not going to lie, I've done the exact same. Because sometimes these people trying to get their first time with an animal lose all sense (or never had it). I've had guys try to get a finger in my dog at a public park. I've had a girl try to get under my dog to blow him 2 minutes after meeting, and my dog was climbing furniture and stepping on her to get away. (She also showed me pics many years, and pounds earlier in life which is as good as lying) On both occasions I quickly made a bullshit excuse and left.
When you tell them what's wrong, they've got a chance to learn and become better people.
 
Wow. This was fascinating to hear some of both sides. I am not sure what to think, I have never met anyone in real in a Situation anything like this. It’s part of the reason I keep all of this such a super secret. Hard to imagine meeting someone in real

I am sorry things did not work out, but after hearing everything maybe it is better things didn’t work out.

it’s a hard lesson, an unfortunate circumstance and maybe a good example to others
 
Really didn’t want to post this but y’all need to see the other side.
First off, I am the person OP is referring to. The one who “ghosted” him.
Most of what he said was true. Yes we did chat a lot, yes I did agree to meet up. It was his idea to meet up, not mine. I figured I’d give it a shot, but I didn’t like the idea of anyone coming to my house or knowing where I live. I put my safety and my dogs safety above all others. So I suggested the hotel room where we could chill. Maybe play video games or something. That somehow turned into a sexual meetup, which I was not ok with and it got away from me. We got along well and OP seemed cool so I more or less went along with it. I said fuck it, I’ll give it a shot. As OP said, I sympathize with those who can’t have a dog for whatever reason and I wanted to help. So we agree on a date and time and the whole hotel thing...which I had absolutely no idea it would cost $800. That’s behind insane. All the ones I looked at were sub-$100. Regardless, we kept talking and OP kept mentioning things he was gonna try with my dog. Asked me to trim his ass hairs so he could try anal. This gave me the worst knot in my stomach. The idea of someone else fucking MY dog...nope, didn’t like that. But it somehow got away from me and I didn’t end it when I should have. The blame there is on me.
But I figured I’d give the meet up a shot, he seemed cool in chat so maybe he was IRL too. So fast forward to the meet...I’m just gonna be 100% honest dude, you sketched me the fuck out. Like you honestly made me genuinely nervous. You didn’t say a god damn word to me. I tried to talk to you, ask you questions, start a conversation with you as normal people do when they meet for the first time...you said maybe 3 whole words in the hour that we were there. You followed way far behind me and stared at my dogs the whole time. You didn’t make a single effort to engage with me. I dropped my dogs leash by accident not 3 inches from your foot and you just stood there and watched as he ran away. Not to mention my shep kept alerting to you. He sensed something off and I trust his gut on that. I don’t know what else to say other than you sketched me out. Obviously you were nervous or awkward, whatever. I get that. I’ve met up with a couple other zoos who were just as nervous and awkward if not more, and within 10 mins we were talking and having a full conversation and they met my dogs and now we’re cool. We got over that. My biggest thing and the reason I don’t go out of my way to meet people from this damn site is because people only want to use me for my dogs. And from my perspective, that’s the same impression I got from you. You were genuine in your chats, but our IRL experience said otherwise. Anyone can fake being nice or fake a personality behind a chat. It’s how they act in perish that shows who they really are. I don’t like the way I handled things, I do apologize for that. But I didnt know what to do. I talked to a few of my zoo friends, and they agreed with me. So I went with my gut. Like I’ve told you 100 times before, I will never put my dogs safety at risk or put them in a bad situation. NEVER. Again, I’m sorry how things turned out. I’m sorry that you wasted money on gas and the room. Had you told me you were gonna spend $800 I would’ve told you to find a different hotel. But you didn’t tell me. I’m sorry for all of it, but i did what I thought was right for me and my dogs. Hate me or don’t, i don’t care. There’s always 2 sides...
Wow! The plot thickens!

I must say, Okami... you were entirely in your rights to break it off. But you should have contacted the OP to tell him and not just leave
him hanging.

I've had more of my share with meetups-- some as the guest, some as the host. This story brings to mind and experience I had meeting
a woman who wanted to play with my male. I thought I had hit the jackpot, especially since I had not had any luck in finding a woman
despite years of searching. We did all the "correct" things-- chatted for months before hand, exchanged details, stories, hopes, desires, yada yada yada... But I was eager and excited and basically planned a hook-up for our first meeting. I arranged a hotel, we met in a park, and she
shows up with a boyfriend! This wasn't part of any of our discussions, and it was awkward to say the least. But being young, dumb, and
horny won out over reason and we all went to the hotel together. It was a disaster. The mood was weird, forced, and anything but sexy. My
boy wanted nothing to do with her and tensions rose rather quickly. Within ten minutes of arriving, I pulled the plug and bailed. I regretted
putting my boy in that situation and getting my hopes up for something that was more of a fantasy than reality. Since then I have always been
extra cautious meeting people and NEVER bring my animals to a first meetup. Friends first, for sure.

Cheers!
 
Uh, wouldn't this mean that law enforcement instigates a crime? Are they allowed to do that in the US? I would expect authorities to prevent crime, not to create it.
They have to be very careful about it, with any initiating action taken by you. Then it's a sting. If they initiate anything it's entrapment.

Edit:
Also they do engage in illegal activities in order to catch the bigger fish. For example, I served on a jury a few years ago in a federal drug case. Early in the case they provided money to an informant to pay his hire ups so that they could wire and tail him to where he made those payments and identify those hirer up the chain. It's called a controlled payment, and in that case the person he met with and made the 3rd controlled payment to ended up being the top man of the entire organization. They were able to start tailing and wiretapping that man and 6 months later made a massive bust that took down the entire organization.

Similarly undercover agents will buy drugs in order to then arrest the seller.
 
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All that is as may be....you should not have agreed in the first place if you had doubts. There are a zillion Starbucks in this world....in Boston, do you know how you find one? You just look across the street from a Starbucks.
You could have left the critter out of it, you could have called a halt before money was laid out....I've done ten first meets. With the exception of my forever girl who passed, the others are all still friends.
Dont say "yes" if you arent gonna be there. Might sound harsh, but fair is fair.
I was there, and I had every intention of going through with. I didn’t drive an hour to the meet spot just to blow him off. If that was the case, I wouldn’t have gone at all. I made the drive, met up with him, took a chance. And I got bad vibes, so I bailed.
 
Not me either. I have shared… Always to see the deep connection between an animal and a zoo. Never for sex or money.
I'll second that.. Despite my earlier hiccups, I really enjoyed sharing my horses with people who demonstrated a real connection and desire to connect on their level. Always with LOTS of supervision the first couple of times, but for a trusted few - free reign.
 
Thank you both for sharing your stories and perspectives. There is a lot of value in lthe lessons learned. I also really appreciate how civil both of you are being about this. And @Okami , you sound like a really solid human being and I wish there were more like you!
 
The hotel room was actually his idea so that we could take it slow. I only wanted to go to his house and not even for anything sexual to be a guarantee, but his shepherd would maul me if he didn't know who I was so he wanted to meet at a public place first and go on a walk, which we did, and then go to a hotel. Two rooms, so he would take his shepherd into the one while I would be with the overly friendly malamute who's a "champion French kisser." And all he had to do, when I asked him if we reached that point of our friendship yet, was say no and to give it time. Why even meet me at all if he wasn't going to go through with it? And bring his dogs too? What he drove and what he was wearing was exactly as described too. Something seems very off about this whole thing. Why would he keep up this charade for over a month? Just to make me spend money on a hotel room? I never even asked to fuck his dogs (or himself, in fact I made it clear that I am not interested in sex with humans and that our friendship would be just that) at any time during our chats.

And he continuously kept giving me advice for living as a zoo and what to do and what not to do, including what to look for in buying a dog, so now I don't know if he was leading me astray in that either. I guess that's what I meant by the one segment you quoted. He was actually being a really good friend too so the fact this came out of nowhere was even more shocking.
If his dog was going to Jack you up for going to his house what do you think would happen in a random place with possible sexual activity?
Got to use t your brain a bit more. And if the intentions were to just talk you don’t need a hotel. Screw him.
 
If his dog was going to Jack you up for going to his house what do you think would happen in a random place with possible sexual activity?
Got to use t your brain a bit more. And if the intentions were to just talk you don’t need a hotel. Screw him.

That wasn't going to be the dog he was going to leave me with. He's also not an aggressive dog when he's on neutral ground, but when he's home, he guards the shit out of it. I didn't even anticipate doing anything too sexual to begin with, mostly kissing at best since he hyped up the dog's kissing abilities. He made it known that his dog has zero sex drive. Both of them, in fact. But it's a moot point now I suppose.
 
Really didn’t want to post this but y’all need to see the other side.
First off, I am the person OP is referring to. The one who “ghosted” him.
Most of what he said was true. Yes we did chat a lot, yes I did agree to meet up. It was his idea to meet up, not mine. I figured I’d give it a shot, but I didn’t like the idea of anyone coming to my house or knowing where I live. I put my safety and my dogs safety above all others. So I suggested the hotel room where we could chill. Maybe play video games or something. That somehow turned into a sexual meetup, which I was not ok with and it got away from me. We got along well and OP seemed cool so I more or less went along with it. I said fuck it, I’ll give it a shot. As OP said, I sympathize with those who can’t have a dog for whatever reason and I wanted to help. So we agree on a date and time and the whole hotel thing...which I had absolutely no idea it would cost $800. That’s behind insane. All the ones I looked at were sub-$100. Regardless, we kept talking and OP kept mentioning things he was gonna try with my dog. Asked me to trim his ass hairs so he could try anal. This gave me the worst knot in my stomach. The idea of someone else fucking MY dog...nope, didn’t like that. But it somehow got away from me and I didn’t end it when I should have. The blame there is on me.
But I figured I’d give the meet up a shot, he seemed cool in chat so maybe he was IRL too. So fast forward to the meet...I’m just gonna be 100% honest dude, you sketched me the fuck out. Like you honestly made me genuinely nervous. You didn’t say a god damn word to me. I tried to talk to you, ask you questions, start a conversation with you as normal people do when they meet for the first time...you said maybe 3 whole words in the hour that we were there. You followed way far behind me and stared at my dogs the whole time. You didn’t make a single effort to engage with me. I dropped my dogs leash by accident not 3 inches from your foot and you just stood there and watched as he ran away. Not to mention my shep kept alerting to you. He sensed something off and I trust his gut on that. I don’t know what else to say other than you sketched me out. Obviously you were nervous or awkward, whatever. I get that. I’ve met up with a couple other zoos who were just as nervous and awkward if not more, and within 10 mins we were talking and having a full conversation and they met my dogs and now we’re cool. We got over that. My biggest thing and the reason I don’t go out of my way to meet people from this damn site is because people only want to use me for my dogs. And from my perspective, that’s the same impression I got from you. You were genuine in your chats, but our IRL experience said otherwise. Anyone can fake being nice or fake a personality behind a chat. It’s how they act in perish that shows who they really are. I don’t like the way I handled things, I do apologize for that. But I didnt know what to do. I talked to a few of my zoo friends, and they agreed with me. So I went with my gut. Like I’ve told you 100 times before, I will never put my dogs safety at risk or put them in a bad situation. NEVER. Again, I’m sorry how things turned out. I’m sorry that you wasted money on gas and the room. Had you told me you were gonna spend $800 I would’ve told you to find a different hotel. But you didn’t tell me. I’m sorry for all of it, but i did what I thought was right for me and my dogs. Hate me or don’t, i don’t care. There’s always 2 sides...

That's the thing though. I never talk more than a few words to people IRL. On the phone. At my job. Anywhere. I can only talk in chats. I have zero conversational skills when it comes time to actually use my voice. Someone else always needs to lead the conversation, especially if I'm nervous. Plus with all those other people around, I wanted to be extra careful what I said. If you had just talked to me about it or made a comment about me being quiet, I would have explained that. I'm only good for conversation if it's something I'm excited about that's a shared interest with the other party. And I know you kept telling me to stop worrying, but I couldn't stop being extra nervous. I spent the entire drive wondering if this would be an entrapment by the feds and what would happen to my grandparents if that was the case and then when I saw it was actually you, I didn't even know what to do. And I have a shit ton to lose. I'm working towards veterinary medicine and my aunt is in law enforcement so this absolutely could NOT be known that I was even meeting you in a public place. Yes, I didn't pick up the leash even though I thought about it, as I didn't know if you would have wanted me to do that with a dog who I had just met or how he (or the shep) would have reacted if I moved quickly. I did try stepping on the leash initially but he got away from me. If you had asked me to do it, then I certainly would have. I did hold onto the leash when you asked me to afterwards.

I don't think I was staring at your dogs as you thought I was; I wasn't staring at anything in particular, I just look straight ahead like that out of habit. For that matter, I barely even interacted with your dogs which wouldn't you think was strange for someone who was only there to fuck a dog? And the reason I was far behind was that I have poor balance and I HATE rock climbing and/or hiking on mountainous terrain and I was taking it extra slow because there was no way I would have explained any cuts or bruises to my folks. If you were watching me like you said you were, you would have seen how it took me forever to vault myself down just one rock, and that I almost killed myself sliding down ass first another time. I literally groaned when I saw you climbing that shit and couldn't believe how fast you moved on it. Again, conversation is a two way street and just like you don't know what's going on with me not speaking, I won't know what's going on with you not speaking. You didn't even try conversation. The only thing you asked me while I was trying not to die was what day I was walking the rott. You did comment about the traffic and that's the most I had opened up as it was something we agreed on that wouldn't make anyone within earshot turn their head. And then I did comment about how busy it was when we were done. So I wasn't entirely silent. Once I had gotten time to know you, I might have been able to let down my guard with you. Just ask anyone who knows me, they'll tell you how getting me to open up is like pulling teeth. And that's just for family members who've been there since I was born. Not even a stranger I had only known in person for an hour. But there's something ironically funny about this...I was the one who showed you my face, hell, I was the one who used voice chat. You gave me neither and I STILL went there on a foundation of trust. You could have done a phone chat. You could have done a video chat. That was a little red flag for me but I ignored it because I believed you were a good person at heart.

And I might have initially wanted to fuck your dog, but plans changed after you told me he has zero sex drive, and then even more when I realized I was getting one of my own and with my preferred gender. Yeah, I made some kind of comment about trimming the hair (I don't believe it was exactly as you described and I thought it was the hair around the sheath...and I didn't even know that shaving a dog could have health consequences until you explained it), but that was largely done in jest. So I would have been happy with just kissing or rimming, the two things you hyped up about him. I don't even like anal and it's only something I'd want to do once just to say I did it, nothing special...animal permitting me to, of course. I told you that I would never put a dog in harm's way and I told you several times how I stopped attempting stuff with my gf's own dogs, who treat me as one of their own pack, out of concern for their wellbeing. Of which you never even expressed appreciation for. And the fact that I didn't share any of your pictures you sent me, or directly outed you even though some users wanted me to, should show that I DO have integrity. So I'm sorry that I kept you expecting something else that wasn't even my priority anymore when I should have told you that my plans changed. I guess there's blame on both sides for leading someone astray, yes?

As for the shep alerting you, I think that's what you wanted to believe because you already had your mind made up. There has NEVER been a dog to ever act aggressive towards me or to tell the owner not to trust me. When he jumped on me, I saw it as just an excited way to say hello because that's exactly what my gf's lab does. He didn't bark, growl, snap, or bite at me. And he did let me pet him, which is more than he allowed for that one couple who stopped us along the way. You told me that he's not super cool with people to begin with, so I wouldn't have considered his reaction too strongly. I'd have been more concerned if Leo was scared of me, but he was incredibly friendly and handsome.

Believe me or not, it doesn't matter now, but there is some hypocrisy at work because while you say that you couldn't trust me, the way you acted makes ME believe that YOU are not a trustworthy person. You didn't have to suggest a hotel at all for the first time. And certainly not separate rooms to split up the dogs. That made me believe that something WAS going to happen when I wasn't necessarily expecting it to. There was no reason to block me on Telegram either. You could have just told me that you changed your mind or even made up some lame ass excuse. Yeah, I'd have been pissed at you especially as this came right after I told you how I paid for a trip for my friend and he bailed on me the day before and you gave me your word that you wouldn't cancel, but I'd have still tried to build up a friendship regardless that could blossom over the span of months and I wouldn't have blocked you as a result. Or even better, show up at the hotel but tell me that you'd rather stay with me to ensure the safety of your dogs for the first time with them in a contained environment. That would have been a perfectly acceptable and logical thing for me to expect from you. Because I guarantee that if we were alone, I would have been talking a lot more. If you did want to form a friendship, you would have just talked everything with me, I would have listened, I'd have given my two cents if need by (as I'm doing now) and then we'd have used that experience to move on and strengthen ourselves. I would have done it for you.

I do appreciate the help you had given me (and as for the rottie, those places you marked for me do indeed have very good shelter from view. But this makes me wonder...so you don't want me to fuck with your dogs even after we'd been in contact for a month, but you're helping me try to be sexually active with the dog I'm walking for a guy who I didn't even know prior to this week and who I'd likely never see again? How does that make any sense?) With all of that in the air, and I would not consider this for just anyone btw, I am still open to some kind of friendship. Just please do not ever set up a meeting like that again unless all expectations and guarantees are known ahead of time...and if it's something that costs money in advance, I am only paying for my expenses and not yours. And yes, maybe I was so consumed with my own problems and missing out on an opportunity that made me feel like I'd never be with a dog romantically that I kept pressing the subject with you as I so desperately wanted a first time whenever that would be, and I apologize for that. I should have been less enthusiastic. But then when I asked for a dick pic while adding that if it's inappropriate at this time to just say no, you sent me one. So are you encouraging me or not because the line is blurred sometimes. And the first time you sent me a pic it was purely of your own decision, and it did surprise me that you'd send me one so soon into our chats. So again, it's like you wanted to excite me with something you didn't want me to experience.
 
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I think that maybe he met you and then just wasn’t interested? I know that sucks, but the same thing happens in the dating world basically all the time.
Obviously not to the extent of being out $800, but I mean that’s pretty normal. Go for a date spend $150-$200 on dinner say your goodbyes after the first date and then just never hear from them again. He obviously could have let you know, but seems to be the way the world operates these days.

I wouldn’t look at it as a bad experience though, more of a learning experience.
 
So the two sides of the coin are now visible.
Y’all need to be straight up from the start. Little things can be nailed in as you get to know each other. But hide nothing in person. For owners, do your diligence work first. Always looking out for the animals. For non owners, don’t even think at all you’ll get anything from anyone. AT ALL! This isn’t a fucking bunny club. If your meeting someone do just that and only that. Sharing is caring. But not for someone your not bound too.
End of story. Wish you luck and anyone reading this thread learn from what happened here. Or shame on you.
 
I was there, and I had every intention of going through with. I didn’t drive an hour to the meet spot just to blow him off. If that was the case, I wouldn’t have gone at all. I made the drive, met up with him, took a chance. And I got bad vibes, so I bailed.
The only fault I can assign - *ASSUMING* (And we all know what that does) that both sides of the tale are equally true/accurately reported, which may or may not be the case - falls on YOU for not bothering to give him a call/text/whatever to say (with or without explanation) "I've decided it ain't happenin' - have a nice life. Don't call us, we'll call you."

Having done that, you've discharged the minimum common decency that one human should have for another. Until you do so, you're demonstrating that you HAVE no decency.

Beyond that... <shrug> It's a situation that ain't any fun for either party to deal with, but, at least in my eyes, it's on the party who decides to call it off to have the civility to say so, rather than leaving the other party swinging in the breeze thinking that something's going to happen.
 
That's the thing though. I never talk more than a few words to people IRL. On the phone. At my job. Anywhere. I can only talk in chats. I have zero conversational skills when it comes time to actually use my voice. Someone else always needs to lead the conversation, especially if I'm nervous. Plus with all those other people around, I wanted to be extra careful what I said. If you had just talked to me about it or made a comment about me being quiet, I would have explained that. I'm only good for conversation if it's something I'm excited about that's a shared interest with the other party. And I know you kept telling me to stop worrying, but I couldn't stop being extra nervous. I spent the entire drive wondering if this would be an entrapment by the feds and what would happen to my grandparents if that was the case and then when I saw it was actually you, I didn't even know what to do. And I have a shit ton to lose. I'm working towards veterinary medicine and my aunt is in law enforcement so this absolutely could NOT be known that I was even meeting you in a public place. Yes, I didn't pick up the leash even though I thought about it, as I didn't know if you would have wanted me to do that with a dog who I had just met or how he (or the shep) would have reacted if I moved quickly. I did try stepping on the leash initially but he got away from me. If you had asked me to do it, then I certainly would have. I did hold onto the leash when you asked me to afterwards.

I don't think I was staring at your dogs as you thought I was; I wasn't staring at anything in particular, I just look straight ahead like that out of habit. For that matter, I barely even interacted with your dogs which wouldn't you think was strange for someone who was only there to fuck a dog? And the reason I was far behind was that I have poor balance and I HATE rock climbing and/or hiking on mountainous terrain and I was taking it extra slow because there was no way I would have explained any cuts or bruises to my folks. If you were watching me like you said you were, you would have seen how it took me forever to vault myself down just one rock, and that I almost killed myself sliding down ass first another time. I literally groaned when I saw you climbing that shit and couldn't believe how fast you moved on it. Again, conversation is a two way street and just like you don't know what's going on with me not speaking, I won't know what's going on with you not speaking. You didn't even try conversation. The only thing you asked me while I was trying not to die was what day I was walking the rott. You did comment about the traffic and that's the most I had opened up as it was something we agreed on that wouldn't make anyone within earshot turn their head. And then I did comment about how busy it was when we were done. So I wasn't entirely silent. Once I had gotten time to know you, I might have been able to let down my guard with you. Just ask anyone who knows me, they'll tell you how getting me to open up is like pulling teeth. And that's just for family members who've been there since I was born. Not even a stranger I had only known in person for an hour. But there's something ironically funny about this...I was the one who showed you my face, hell, I was the one who used voice chat. You gave me neither and I STILL went there on a foundation of trust. You could have done a phone chat. You could have done a video chat. That was a little red flag for me but I ignored it because I believed you were a good person at heart.

And I might have initially wanted to fuck your dog, but plans changed after you told me he has zero sex drive, and then even more when I realized I was getting one of my own and with my preferred gender. Yeah, I made some kind of comment about trimming the hair (I don't believe it was exactly as you described and I thought it was the hair around the sheath...and I didn't even know that shaving a dog could have health consequences until you explained it), but that was largely done in jest. So I would have been happy with just kissing or rimming, the two things you hyped up about him. I don't even like anal and it's only something I'd want to do once just to say I did it, nothing special...animal permitting me to, of course. I told you that I would never put a dog in harm's way and I told you several times how I stopped attempting stuff with my gf's own dogs, who treat me as one of their own pack, out of concern for their wellbeing. Of which you never even expressed appreciation for. And the fact that I didn't share any of your pictures you sent me, or directly outed you even though some users wanted me to, should show that I DO have integrity. So I'm sorry that I kept you expecting something else that wasn't even my priority anymore when I should have told you that my plans changed. I guess there's blame on both sides for leading someone astray, yes?

As for the shep alerting you, I think that's what you wanted to believe because you already had your mind made up. There has NEVER been a dog to ever act aggressive towards me or to tell the owner not to trust me. When he jumped on me, I saw it as just an excited way to say hello because that's exactly what my gf's lab does. He didn't bark, growl, snap, or bite at me. And he did let me pet him, which is more than he allowed for that one couple who stopped us along the way. You told me that he's not super cool with people to begin with, so I wouldn't have considered his reaction too strongly. I'd have been more concerned if Leo was scared of me, but he was incredibly friendly and handsome.

Believe me or not, it doesn't matter now, but there is some hypocrisy at work because while you say that you couldn't trust me, the way you acted makes ME believe that YOU are not a trustworthy person. You didn't have to suggest a hotel at all for the first time. And certainly not separate rooms to split up the dogs. That made me believe that something WAS going to happen when I wasn't necessarily expecting it to. There was no reason to block me on Telegram either. You could have just told me that you changed your mind or even made up some lame ass excuse. Yeah, I'd have been pissed at you especially as this came right after I told you how I paid for a trip for my friend and he bailed on me the day before and you gave me your word that you wouldn't cancel, but I'd have still tried to build up a friendship regardless that could blossom over the span of months and I wouldn't have blocked you as a result. Or even better, show up at the hotel but tell me that you'd rather stay with me to ensure the safety of your dogs for the first time with them in a contained environment. That would have been a perfectly acceptable and logical thing for me to expect from you. Because I guarantee that if we were alone, I would have been talking a lot more. If you did want to form a friendship, you would have just talked everything with me, I would have listened, I'd have given my two cents if need by (as I'm doing now) and then we'd have used that experience to move on and strengthen ourselves. I would have done it for you.

I do appreciate the help you had given me (and as for the rottie, those places you marked for me do indeed have very good shelter from view. But this makes me wonder...so you don't want me to fuck with your dogs even after we'd been in contact for a month, but you're helping me try to be sexually active with the dog I'm walking for a guy who I didn't even know prior to this week and who I'd likely never see again? How does that make any sense?) With all of that in the air, and I would not consider this for just anyone btw, I am still open to some kind of friendship. Just please do not ever set up a meeting like that again unless all expectations and guarantees are known ahead of time...and if it's something that costs money in advance, I am only paying for my expenses and not yours. And yes, maybe I was so consumed with my own problems and missing out on an opportunity that made me feel like I'd never be with a dog romantically that I kept pressing the subject with you as I so desperately wanted a first time whenever that would be, and I apologize for that. I should have been less enthusiastic. But then when I asked for a dick pic while adding that if it's inappropriate at this time to just say no, you sent me one. So are you encouraging me or not because the line is blurred sometimes. And the first time you sent me a pic it was purely of your own decision, and it did surprise me that you'd send me one so soon into our chats. So again, it's like you wanted to excite me with something you didn't want me to experience.
I don’t have time to type out a big response right now, but I will when I get a chance.

In short, I don’t owe you or anyone anything. You were far too trusting. You have your face as your profile pic, so I knew what you looked like before I even talked to you. You let me see that. You sent me a voice message. All in less than a week. With everything both of us have to lose, those are things you don’t just throw around. It’s basic internet security. You trusted a random stranger that you didn’t know whom you met on a zoo site with a picture of your face, and it set off a red flag because I didn’t send one back?? No, that’s wrong. That’s exactly how we get caught and exposed and I lose my dogs. Go read the basic internet security thread that Floofy made. It’s all there. I sent you a pic of my dog to prove I was a legit owner. Why the hell would I try to tease you? What does that do for me. You seem to think that I owed you a pic of my face and clip of my voice or whatever because you sent me yours. No, that’s not how this works. As I’ve stated, I take me and my dogs security VERY seriously. You’re free to post and send what you want, but the logic of I sent you this so you send me this in return is wrong and anyone will agree. As for the rest of your post, I will respond when I have time.
 
I don’t have time to type out a big response right now, but I will when I get a chance.

In short, I don’t owe you or anyone anything. You were far too trusting. You have your face as your profile pic, so I knew what you looked like before I even talked to you. You let me see that. You sent me a voice message. All in less than a week. With everything both of us have to lose, those are things you don’t just throw around. It’s basic internet security. You trusted a random stranger that you didn’t know whom you met on a zoo site with a picture of your face, and it set off a red flag because I didn’t send one back?? No, that’s wrong. That’s exactly how we get caught and exposed and I lose my dogs. Go read the basic internet security thread that Floofy made. It’s all there. I sent you a pic of my dog to prove I was a legit owner. Why the hell would I try to tease you? What does that do for me. You seem to think that I owed you a pic of my face and clip of my voice or whatever because you sent me yours. No, that’s not how this works. As I’ve stated, I take me and my dogs security VERY seriously. You’re free to post and send what you want, but the logic of I sent you this so you send me this in return is wrong and anyone will agree. As for the rest of your post, I will respond when I have time.
Buddy I'm an owner same as you and sorry but you broke basic common decency. You did owe the guy a basic response to say why you weren't meeting. Im not condemning you on it but yeah you did do wrong there. However he was looking at your dog or joking about anal (fat chance as most aren't into it) you did owe him that bit of basic common decency especially if you two had been chatting for over a month.

GAThrawn you need to work on your approach buddy. You should protect yourself more on telegram by not giving your voice and face that early in a convo. It's just common sense in all this. Also you need to learn how to talk to people, especially other zoos as we are the people who should understand you more than anyone else in this world. Don't be awkward with that type of thing, it does nothing for you.

Both of you need to apologise to each other and see where you go from here.
 
Okay I’m going to chime in as a character witness here. I know Okami. We met after chatting for a while here on ZV. We were both uncomfortable and nervous the first time we met but we hung out for a while and had normal conversation. He was laid back, friendly and easy to talk to. Now, a couple (maybe more) years later we are still friends. We talk regularly... and hang out every now and then (probably more if we were closer). I attribute this continued friendship to the fact that he is FRIENDLY, LAID BACK, and EASY TO TALK TO. Now after knowing him for a while I can say he also has integrity and he isn't the type of person that fucks someone over. I lent him a guitar amp recently that got damaged (very slightly) while he had it. He immediately offered to replace it with an even better and more expensive one because he felt so bad about the situation... again, not the type of person that fucks people over!

the other day when Okami and GAThrawn met I got a few messages from Okami and I could tell he wasn’t his typical laid back self... he told me everything he just said here... that this guy was creeping him the fuck out... despite numerous attempts to engage in conversation, the guy said maybe 3-4 words... walked 5-10 feet behind him the whole time just staring at his dogs. He said he was sincerely worried about the situation. personally speaking, id be sketched the fuck out too if I were in the same situation. Furthermore, I sure as shit wouldn’t tell the guy that I changed my mind and I wasnt going back to the hotel as planned. I’d buy myself some time and say “see you at the hotel” and id get the fuck out of there.

hindsight Is 20/20 and anyone can find things that could have been handled differently. However just considering the actual meetup I think Okami did the right thing. He was concerned for the safety of his dogs and himself so he got the hell out of there. That’s about the only smart move IMO.
 
Well just my opinion is that maybe as most owner think hey I am getting nothing out of this so why should I care. Most owner ( not me) want either money, sex, combo or something out of it beside just knowing the other person.
I'd really like to have some form of bond with any friends I make. Without a good bond trust can't be made, and we soon find ourselves in the same trap once more with fake friends that only want our benefits. Be it sex money whatever the case.
 
Okay I’m going to chime in as a character witness here. I know Okami. We met after chatting for a while here on ZV. We were both uncomfortable and nervous the first time we met but we hung out for a while and had normal conversation. He was laid back, friendly and easy to talk to. Now, a couple (maybe more) years later we are still friends. We talk regularly... and hang out every now and then (probably more if we were closer). I attribute this continued friendship to the fact that he is FRIENDLY, LAID BACK, and EASY TO TALK TO. Now after knowing him for a while I can say he also has integrity and he isn't the type of person that fucks someone over. I lent him a guitar amp recently that got damaged (very slightly) while he had it. He immediately offered to replace it with an even better and more expensive one because he felt so bad about the situation... again, not the type of person that fucks people over!

the other day when Okami and GAThrawn met I got a few messages from Okami and I could tell he wasn’t his typical laid back self... he told me everything he just said here... that this guy was creeping him the fuck out... despite numerous attempts to engage in conversation, the guy said maybe 3-4 words... walked 5-10 feet behind him the whole time just staring at his dogs. He said he was sincerely worried about the situation. personally speaking, id be sketched the fuck out too if I were in the same situation. Furthermore, I sure as shit wouldn’t tell the guy that I changed my mind and I wasnt going back to the hotel as planned. I’d buy myself some time and say “see you at the hotel” and id get the fuck out of there.

hindsight Is 20/20 and anyone can find things that could have been handled differently. However just considering the actual meetup I think Okami did the right thing. He was concerned for the safety of his dogs and himself so he got the hell out of there. That’s about the only smart move IMO.
Everyone to fast to judge these days I'm guilty of it somtimes to.
 
I was there, and I had every intention of going through with. I didn’t drive an hour to the meet spot just to blow him off. If that was the case, I wouldn’t have gone at all. I made the drive, met up with him, took a chance. And I got bad vibes, so I bailed.
Hindsight is always better than foresight...But honestly....what bothers me about your position is the fact that you felt compelled to identify yourself HERE. I would have thought that eithrr keeping quiet about it or making the case without stating identifying details would have been a better idea.

This turned into a "he said/ he said" ....and nothing good will ever come of that.
I still say...leave the critter out of a first meet, and set that first meet so it can be brief. If it had been a pig, or a horse, you wouldnt have brought him...the dog should have been the same.
 
@GAThrawn, independent of the meeting other zoos topic, it seems that you really need to work on your communication skills in person. You should make it a task for you to learn and practice how to communicate and keep a conversation going, actually even lead it, even if you're not the most charismatic person. It may seem daunting, but it is also rewarding when you get better.

The reason why I'm saying that you need to do this is because it will be necessary to do your job right, unless you find some niche as someone's silent assistant. Vets for example need to be able to talk – and listen – to animal owners. There is so much you won't be able to learn about an animal and its illness simply by having it in your office for a handful of minutes and doing measurements. Add to that that the animal may act differently in your office than it does outside. You need to hear about the owners' observations. While some owners may tell you everything you need to know plus their whole life story, others won't. Often, they won't know what's relevant. You have to ask them, and you can't be reluctant to ask again, if their answer isn't sufficient, because it's important for finding the cause of the animal's trouble.

Once you have found out what's wrong with the animal, you'll have to explain that to the owners and make sure that they understand this. The reason is that the owners will often be the ones who have to do half or more of the treatment. You can't do everything yourself right there in the few minutes in the office. And sometimes the owners even have to change something about their home or their way of doing stuff in order for their animals being safe. On top of that, all of that communication should usually happen in a relaxed and positive atmosphere, because people and animals are already stressed enough due to the illness and sometimes even more reasons. Trust and positive feelings are part of the healing process.

I'm not a vet, but I've met more than a handful over the years and the best ones are always good at communicating. I'm not saying that they are the type of people who will entertain a whole party – actually I don't think they are, because it's not about being the center of attention, being able to brag well, amplifying a story or making an endless chain of jokes. Don't worry about that. But you need to learn to ask the right questions, listen, and give good explanations, while not creeping people out. And you can learn it. Interact with people, say your opinion, pose questions and don't get frustrated, if it doesn't work well from the start. You will improve with practice, if you want to.
 
Okay I’m going to chime in as a character witness here. I know Okami. We met after chatting for a while here on ZV. We were both uncomfortable and nervous the first time we met but we hung out for a while and had normal conversation. He was laid back, friendly and easy to talk to. Now, a couple (maybe more) years later we are still friends. We talk regularly... and hang out every now and then (probably more if we were closer). I attribute this continued friendship to the fact that he is FRIENDLY, LAID BACK, and EASY TO TALK TO. Now after knowing him for a while I can say he also has integrity and he isn't the type of person that fucks someone over. I lent him a guitar amp recently that got damaged (very slightly) while he had it. He immediately offered to replace it with an even better and more expensive one because he felt so bad about the situation... again, not the type of person that fucks people over!

the other day when Okami and GAThrawn met I got a few messages from Okami and I could tell he wasn’t his typical laid back self... he told me everything he just said here... that this guy was creeping him the fuck out... despite numerous attempts to engage in conversation, the guy said maybe 3-4 words... walked 5-10 feet behind him the whole time just staring at his dogs. He said he was sincerely worried about the situation. personally speaking, id be sketched the fuck out too if I were in the same situation. Furthermore, I sure as shit wouldn’t tell the guy that I changed my mind and I wasnt going back to the hotel as planned. I’d buy myself some time and say “see you at the hotel” and id get the fuck out of there.

hindsight Is 20/20 and anyone can find things that could have been handled differently. However just considering the actual meetup I think Okami did the right thing. He was concerned for the safety of his dogs and himself so he got the hell out of there. That’s about the only smart move IMO.
Well Okami *May* have done the right thing by leaving but he should have let the other dude know. That's part where he failed as a responsible person. Also don't forget though that you are just going by what Okami said as we all are.
 
I'm with @Ookami here, if your gut is telling you something is off, RUN, don't walk. Your dogs won't steer you wrong, and if both you and your dogs are picking up on something being wrong... Yeah, I'd be gone too.
 
@Ookami, You had good intentions about the meet up and you did the right thing by high tail it out of here if things aren't right. But its how you went about doing it. (Not telling him that the deal is off). Also bring your dogs on a first meet, probably not the best decision and I think your emotions override your judgment a bit. I know that you feel for people whom don't have a dog, but at the same time, their safety matters more than your feelings over someone whom doesn't have their own pet. It amazing that you actually went along with the whole meet up despite your reservations.

@GAThrawn, Dude, you came off as a creep and sending bad vibes. I suggest taking some other users advice and work on your communication and people skills, otherwise your going to push more people away. And it sounds like to me, you was too eager to get some tail (at least in the beginning you was anyways and how you are coming off here). Just be fortunate it only cost you a hotel room and not something far worse.
 
> wondering if being a zoo is the right thing for me.

That's not even a thing, I think. You're either attracted to animals or not. It's like wondering if being gay is the right thing for you.
 
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