FeralLovin'
Citizen of Zooville
Until I meet a vegetarian that isn't annoying and act superior over other people, I will still find them annoying. Also, all this talk of veganism made me remember this;
I am very scared of the vegan movement, they will try to take our right away to have companion animals.
- Thread starter Coolboyman
- Start date
caikgoch
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
I agree but the way you think.
Apparently you've never heard of a demand meter or KW multiplier. The higher the usage, the higher the cost and the higher the bill. The infrastructure to support, even at the personal level, increases dramatically. Consider the cost of a 300 amp service vs a 100 amp just so you can have a tankless water heater. Add two electric cars and you will need a 600 amp service. Three phase doubles your personal costs and triples the utility cost. And is currently available to less than 10% of residential users.
It's not the generation costs that get you, it's the 1500 mile long transmission in your car.
caikgoch
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
????? Are you going to provide condoms for all those free range animals just doing what comes naturally? One of the prime reasons for fencing is to LIMIT breeding.
caikgoch
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Apparently you missed the fact that I am a farmer with producer's number and livestock. AI is used to bring improved genetics into the herd but the bulk of breeding is done naturally. 100% AI would triple the cost of meat.
caikgoch
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Animals will breed at a higher rate if left to themselves. Farmers time the breeding to assure maximum survival of the offspring and efficient handling.
Wolf2
Zooville Settler
Buffalo Tales: The Near-Extermination of the American Bison, Native Americans and the Land, Nature Transformed, TeacherServe, National Humanities Center
Essays on American environmental history. Nature Transformed is an interactive curriculum enrichment service for teachers, offering them practical help in planning courses and presenting rigorous subject matter to students. Nature Transformed explores the relationship between the ways men and...
nationalhumanitiescenter.org
Afuckingcheesepuff
Tourist
Okay a couple things, first I doubt they want to get rid of domestic pets, as I've heard it is a myth, second of all, please do message me as I'm interested in the whole female bunny thing, I've never heard of a zoo with a rabbit before. Also aw a flemish, I have a black male Flemish who isn't even a year old. His name is Pooka and holy hell as loving as he is sometimes other times he will try to eat me. So I'm just curious as to how you have oral sex with the female flemish, had she ever bitten you badly?
And to vegans/veggies reading I hold nothing against yall and personally I love meat. I dont agree with factory farms so I get my meat from a local farm, on occasion I'll get like fast food burgers or something but not very often. I think that hunting is a great means of getting meat as long as you use almost if not all of the animal.
And to vegans/veggies reading I hold nothing against yall and personally I love meat. I dont agree with factory farms so I get my meat from a local farm, on occasion I'll get like fast food burgers or something but not very often. I think that hunting is a great means of getting meat as long as you use almost if not all of the animal.
I agree - especially about using all of the animal if you kill it.
Again you know nothing of what im talking about. Your not thinking at all of the big picture.
The physical wire on the pole operates at 18k volts and the transformer is what steps down the voltage to whatever you need it to be. You can get the same kva output depending on what you step the voltage down to, for example a 480v split phase system could be placed anywhere as its "single phase", the HV wire on the pole only would draw .5 amps at 18000 volts depending on useage. Its the pole voltage that determines infrastructure. Its this pole voltage that matters, not what its stepped down to.
And youve obvioisly dont know that if you go over a certain kwh usage, you can get discounted rates to as low as .03kwh. Which commercial charge stations like gas stations it is replacing would be like. Home charging would be obsolete with that new battery technology and charge hubs inplace of old stations.
Home charging would still be cheaper than gas stations as it is now. Internal combustion sucks and soon to be obsolete for road vehicles.
caikgoch
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
First, I've never seen a 480 split phase (technically known as Scotch T). I've only seen 480 single phase in large lighting systems. Regardless, it takes at least 2 legs (phases) to make a split phase so you double the number of wires right there.
Demand is still demand and your per KVA rises as your demand does to pay for the additional infrastructure. That's what the demand multiplier does.
Now, I have an unintended consequences question for you. You've seen how spectacularly Teslas burn? Imagine an 18 wheeler size battery going off. There is an inherent safety factor in liquid fuels that stored energy lacks.
Wow a conversation that has now evolved to electricity? LOL You gotta love this place......................
HyperWoof
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Want to know what happens to meat when its dropped off a cliff in the form of a 2000lb animal? its guts, stool, liver sauce and stomach acid are going to be intermixed throughout its entire chest cavity.
When you're gutting game, if you even nick the intestinal tract of an animal you can ruin a large amount of the meat.
No... they arent "using every single part of the buffalo" At most they are using the head, hide and quartering the hind.
There is no way of efficiently using a herd of buffalo that you pushed off a fucking cliff lol
HyperWoof
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean there isn't a necessity to kill animals.
Do you support hunting as a form of conservation?
Once again how would you deal with the feral hog issue down south without killing vast quantities of animals? You either get forced into to the role of a hypocrite, or you let disaster run amok and unchecked.
Nobody put animals in a position to be culled, that's a natural cycle if we as humans were here or not. There is no magical "perfect balance" of nature as is commonly portrayed. There have been constant mass die outs of animals for as long as time can tell, before humans ever existed.
Even if we could somehow exist alongside enough predators to keep local prey game at healthy levels, what would the difference be in a bear or wolf killing a deer and a human killing a deer? The deer dies to a predator regardless, so wherein lies the issue? I've never understood that train of thought
Humans are at least intelligent enough to be able to ration out what a healthy level is.
And its nonsense that vegan diets are healthier than a balanced omnivore diet. If that was the case these athletes who are willing to do anything for an edge, would he switching diet to a vegan one.
People who are willing to eat a vegan diet are typically healthy people already (people who eat unhealthy arent going to switch to vegan lifestyle, whether they believe in it or not)
If you compare a health concious omnivore to a vegan, an omnivore is going to be better off everytime.
Hewflungpew
Citizen of Zooville
Never happen..
Just like they will never take our guns away.
For this simple reason: it will most likely cause civil war.
I know I won't give up my animals or my guns with out you getting a lead payment.
I ALSO KNOW I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE.
There isn't much that is scarier than a pissed off redneck family standing up for their rights.
Just think about what it would take to get just Texas to give up guns.. Lol. Basicaly an act of God.
That's just Texas.
Just like they will never take our guns away.
For this simple reason: it will most likely cause civil war.
I know I won't give up my animals or my guns with out you getting a lead payment.
I ALSO KNOW I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE.
There isn't much that is scarier than a pissed off redneck family standing up for their rights.
Just think about what it would take to get just Texas to give up guns.. Lol. Basicaly an act of God.
That's just Texas.
caikgoch
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
And if you want to know why just look for mass shootings in Texas. The only ones that have succeeded were on government "gun free zones". All of the attempts on private property have ended like the latest, with the attacker shot dead in 6 seconds. He got off about half of the rounds in his gun.
Charging hubs would be paying sub .08c rates at their useage levels. You get a different tier of useage when you get to a certain kwh consumption rate. You ignore that battery technologies would allow rapid sub 5 minute charging at this point and cheap production. This is when internal combustion dies for the better in cars anyway.
Its not like every car is going to electric overnight. Its done over time and as it is now, a 240v connection can charge a tesla overnight for 15$ @ .13c per kwh, with all its given current battery tech inefficiencys.
Ive seen plenty of 18 wheelers go up in blazes too with diesel. So? That doesnt mean we stick with outdated tech.
Hewflungpew
Citizen of Zooville
Dam straight!
caikgoch
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
There is a very basic difference in the way diesel burns from batteries. The energy in liquid fuels is chemical and needs very specific conditions of temperature, pressure, and oxygen mix to fully release their energy. In a pool, liquid fuels will not burn, they need to mix with air at a rate between LEL and UEL. The process of evaporation removes heat from the reaction and limits the rate of combustion. Those giant fire balls you see in the movies are special effects and are created by using an explosive to throw the gasoline into the air before igniting it.
Electric energy doesn't have those limitations. It can flow out of the battery at the speed of light. That's why you weld with electricity and braze with gas. The question isn't do we need better tech, the question is what is better and what is just different.
FeralLovin'
Citizen of Zooville
The feral hogs are an invasive species brought over by our ancestors. A big mistake on their part. The hogs have no natural predator and they eat and destroy everything in their path. Plant or animal. If everyone went to veganism, these pigs would destroy every crop field they came across, taking away a helluva lot of food from everyone and destroying every natural ecosystem they spread to. Killing them is the only real method. If vegans want their vegetables, they're going to have to let the people that actually want to restore nature, kill animals that are invasive or have no predators to keep their numbers down naturally. Hunting is necessary to help keep things balanced and why they sell tags for animals to hunters.
Also, I told my dad, "when I get rich, we are so doing this."
HyperWoof
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Yeah they can call me a sadist all they want. If I went to texas i'd have a blast doing that
caikgoch
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Would you believe that I'm in Texas and Federal Regulation requires me to hunt hogs. I don't even need a license.
BTW, for you grabists, the preferred gun by far is the AR15. You can shoot more them that way.
SociallyHawkward
Tourist
The problem with simply banning factory farms and using solely free-ranging is that it would take more resources like land, which is detrimental to the planet. We're in a tough spot there: We want to reduce suffering as much as possible, but we also don't want to deforest more than we already have.
That point is controversial in the scientific community. Some studies conclude that eating meat causes those diseases, others say it doesn't. There are flawed studies on both sides. For example, some studies link saturated fats to disease, some say there's no connection. One study linked an increased risk of diabetes, stroke, and colorectal cancer to eating red meat, but this study was criticized for being flawed. It could be unhealthy to eat meat, but right now it's inconclusive.
I agree. When a chicken has been stuck in a cage, crammed with many other chickens that are fighting with it because they can't form their usual social structures, they aren't having a very good life. If they're egg laying hens, some may be lucky enough to adopted after their egg-laying has ceased, but they don't know how to survive as a backyard chicken. We shouldn't have put them in that situation to begin with, but we did.
Citation needed. Never heard this claim made before.
T
Tailo
Guest
Fun fact: The meat consumption in the US is exceptionally high, the highest of all nations compared by the OECD in 2018. It's really excessive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_meat_consumption_per_capita
These discussion are often about not eating meat at all vs. eating meat. That's philosophically interesting, but the question how much meat we eat and where it comes from could be much more powerful in practice in the short term than the question whether to eat meat. If US citizens would reduce their meat consumption to the level of their Canadian neighbors for example, that is by around 30 %, that would have a huge impact for many animals already without anyone having to become vegetarian or vegan.
People are discussing here whether a vegan diet is more healthy or whether the addition of some meat is more healthy. Again, an interesting discussion. But more relevant in practice is that the meat consumption on the exceptionally high level to be found in the US is not healthy. A reduction of meat consumption would definetely be beneficial for many people.
Yes, and I do not suggest simply banning factory farms.
These discussion are often about not eating meat at all vs. eating meat. That's philosophically interesting, but the question how much meat we eat and where it comes from could be much more powerful in practice in the short term than the question whether to eat meat. If US citizens would reduce their meat consumption to the level of their Canadian neighbors for example, that is by around 30 %, that would have a huge impact for many animals already without anyone having to become vegetarian or vegan.
People are discussing here whether a vegan diet is more healthy or whether the addition of some meat is more healthy. Again, an interesting discussion. But more relevant in practice is that the meat consumption on the exceptionally high level to be found in the US is not healthy. A reduction of meat consumption would definetely be beneficial for many people.
Yes, and I do not suggest simply banning factory farms.
S
shrimpsoda
Guest
My people in the old country had to eat dogs during times of war and according to some of them it tastes good (though it is heavily frowned upon today).. again veganism is a western ideal and an option only for wealthy first world types.
“A human would never kill another human” uh. In times of self-defense we will definitely kill other humans or seriously injure other humans. It can be as small as theft or assault.. If another human broke into my house to steal or harm my family/me, I’m breaking his/her kneecaps. Or as big as another country/territory attacking one another. My people had to eat dogs cause of a certain east asian country that thought it was OK to invade, rape, and slaughter neighboring countries.
It is good that you are trying to stop eating meat. I grew up eating meat, and then I realized it was wrong (and then I completely stopped eating meat). So I know it's possible to transition from meat-eating to non-meat-eating.
Plus, there's all kinds of food items which resemble animal-based meat, but are made from plant sources (such as Boca Burgers).
I've seen shit on the ground before that resembled meat but I sure wasn't going to eat it.
I have tried all kinds of vegetarian meat look alike foods and not one of them tasted like meat and some of them tasted like burnt cardboard.
I really want to know - In some countries they cook and eat insects so is this morally wrong also?
This is why people should be vegan or vegetarian -- it makes one morally consistent, in that they treat all animals as beings worthy of moral consideration (whereas meat-eaters only treat some, such as pets, as having moral value).
This is nonsense -- farm animals (for slaughter and dairy) require far more land than plants alone. Also, much of plants grown are fed to animals that are then slaughtered -- it makes more sense to only grow plants, rather than feeding plants to animals and then killing those animals.
This is an idiotic argument -- the best thing to do is to not eat meat, because it means slaughter operations are not being supported financially, which means people stop breeding cows/pigs to be slaughtered. In other words, not eating meat is more ethical (environmentally) than eating meat.
You ought to think about why vegans are criticizing you, and then make decisions (such as not eating meat) based on that criticism. Stubbornly refusing to acknowledge that there is anything wrong with meat-eating is itself wrong. There's a reason vegans are criticizing meat-eaters -- it's because it is bad for animals, bad for the environment, and bad for one's health. It's not like people are criticizing you for playing the guitar -- vegans are criticizing meat-eaters for their immoral actions (including the often-used phrase, "meat is murder"). As @SkawdtDawg said, "It's hard to respect a choice that directly harms others when it's not necessary."
As I've said before, one's pleasure (in this case, "taste") does not justify killing (murdering) an animal, because an animal's life is more important than how something tastes. The fact that you enjoy eating animals at their expense is callous and idiotic.
Eating any meat (whether it is obtained "locally" is or from a factory farm) is morally wrong, because in both cases, the animal is still murdered (which is an inherently immoral act, because it unjustly deprives of a being of his/her life).
Bullshit. If a human or a dog were killed, would it be ethical to "use their body parts" for your own needs? No, it wouldn't. Killing an animal is itself wrong, even if the animal is "used" (which, by the way, is just exploitation).
This is bullshit. A vegan diet is far healthier than a meat-based diet. Also, as @SkawdtDawg said, humans have a choice to not eat meat, whereas wolves do not have a choice.
This is nonsense. Hunting should be banned because the act of murdering an animal is itself an unethical act. Nature can take care of its own, and doesn't need humans "balancing" it. Also, what you said about feral hogs isn't true.
I would say that deliberately killing insects is wrong.
Vegans try to do the least harm possible, meaning avoiding killing animals (including insects), though sometimes killing insects may be unavoidable (such as stepping on them accidentally). In the case of meat-eating, one can avoid eating meat.
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HyperWoof
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Dude you were the one saying that small animals don't matter much because they don't have much cellular mass LOL
"First of all, i believe that life is at the cellular level not at the "individual" level..
Based on my understanding of life, 500 mice isnt as much life as 1 cow because there is more life into 1 cow than into 500 mice." -Zoo50 The grand philosopher
I never said any of that. You must be thinking of a different person.
HyperWoof
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Oh you're right. That was your partner in crime Beastfight. My bad