How long do you think that it will take before zoosexaulity starts to become as accepted as other sexualities?
- Thread starter vic21
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vic21
Tourist
Yeah, people really need to start recognizing just how smart animals actually are as well. They might not be as advanced as us but they're definitely not as dead stupid as most people seem to think they are. I think the more that becomes common knowledge the more people will eventually come to the conclusion themselves that they're low IQ adults. I'm just optimistic about how long that'll take.
HugDoggy
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Advanced mentally is a relative thing anyway. Chances are if you stuck a canine nose on a human and said what smells are in the room it would fry a human brain trying to work out all the nuances.
And think about it most dogs can understand human words more than most humans can understand dog words and body language. So who is really the smarter of the two.
And think about it most dogs can understand human words more than most humans can understand dog words and body language. So who is really the smarter of the two.
Goattobeloved
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Um... ¿Never again?
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Year when the lifestyle becomes fully accepted
In what decade do you think the lifestyle would become fully accepted? Personally, the 2050's. I'm more curious as to what needs to happen for it to be accepted. Like I think the first step would be mainstream movies/tv shows that shed light in a positive way will be screened like Beauty and The...
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Do you think zoo will ever be accepted?
I mean both socially and legally, I'm really insecure about my whole attraction to animals thing but I just kinda hope one day people will see we're not animals pin not intended
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vic21
Tourist
If I remember correctly, dogs have been around humans long enough that they've evolved muscles in their faces to mimic some of our facial expressions to better communicate with us.
saddlebum66
Supreme Citizen of ZV
Don't hold your breath for seeing it in your lifetime... it will be generations, if ever
saddlebum66
Supreme Citizen of ZV
Lol....It doesnt work like that. Youre probably right about olfactory issues if you just threw a human down on the table and implanted that canine nose ( of course it would have to be muzzle and all) but if a human grew up with it, theyd be, again assuming a muzzle, fine with it. As to understanding more human words than WE understand dog words, dont bet on that either; THEY have nothing better to do, while our minds are occupied with a thousand things they couldnt comprehend before doomsday. Each individual breed was literally designed for the purposes to which they were intended to be put. A bloodhound chases scent, a sighthound chases fast critters over steppeland and prairie, a Jack Russell kills rats, Dachshunds eliminate badgers etcetera. Why would they NOT pick up words of command for those activities? Their skills are high, as critters go. But without us around, IF dogs remained alive, they wouldnt be the variety we see; theyd be 30 pound yellow, pointy -eared, curly tailed scrubs, looking like basenjis that bark. We existed before they did. THEY wouldn't exist if we did not.
AS TO the actual question? At least a millennium, if everything goes smoothly.
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Cookiecaretaker
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Never
Schuppentier
Citizen of Zooville
Not in the foreseeable future. Probably never.
DaddyDomDog
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
I think they will come to accept us but not what we do. Best we will get is acknowledged but we will be expected never to act in it.
HugDoggy
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
You sort of missed what I was saying though, Animals generally aren't stupid, they just have devoted their brain power to different task based on the input they receive. It actually takes a lot of brain power to pick that minute scent out of the 10s or 100s of smells that are floating around at any given time. These sorts of things are often over looked by people when talking about how smart humans are over animals.
With out us around they would still be wolves and the planet would probably be far better off, without some big hairless primates stuffing it up!
Reconscope
Supreme Citizen of ZV
It's pretty much a glass Cannon perspective that they do. If they are good at something they are going to evolve into being better at something. In other words I agree about once they devote ask throughout all of evolution you could say they became masters of that task.
Fear not a man who knows 1000 moves instead of fear man who did a thousand kicks. Repetition means mastery. I know it's not the exact quote but you get my point
Vermilion
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
When I look at my dog, I don't know if that's true. I think compared to other animals, cats and dogs had a lottery win with humanity.
Reconscope
Supreme Citizen of ZV
In terms of perspective some would disagree some will agree. Cats got weaker and smaller while canines got more docile and however more flexible in their genetic path but they wouldn't be as strong as a great wolf would be. What canines do get intelligence for increasing their social perspectives in genetic evolution
nekdoneco123
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
unless sometime in the future someone invents "bam, animals can talk now!" tech then never. "no verbal consent = rape. period." is too easy of a crutch to fall back on anytime anyone tries anything pro-zoo.
saddlebum66
Supreme Citizen of ZV
If thats your point, why are you not barking and growling with the puppies? Reality check: IF YOU didnt need communication with people you wouldnt be here, OR walking upright, ergo us big hairless primates must have more value to you than you claim. Any stuffing up I see is more related to hypocrisy than to anything else.
You really have biology issues, bub, especially about dogs. IT DOESN'T take a lot of brain power to do what you were born, and bred, to do....when was the last time you thought about pissing, or breathing, or your heartbeat?
WhyEVER do you think there are SO many breeds of Canines? Some do similar tasks in very different areas, but not all dogs are identically talented.
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Goattobeloved
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
With slight differences.
You can defend on verval consent as "they keep coming for more" BUT what they want is " informed consent"
That is to say, that talking animal tech would not be enough. You need animals to understand what you are going to do, possible consequences, then agree to it.
[sarcasm]
Yeah, like we, as humans always do things like that...
[/sarcasm]
Z
zoodude_97
Guest
I hope it’s soon as well, but I have a feeling that wishing 10-15 years it still won’t be accepted . Prob in other countries but not U.S I don’t think.
I agree I don't think we have societal means of making it happen to many barriers
MachineFox
Citizen of Zooville
If the far left push their you-know-what apologia out in the open even more than it already is, and there's signs that it's actually sticking (dear god!), I say don't waste a good opportunity and use their momentum to get that Z in there, snatch whatever gains we can and then toss the whole lot of them right under the bus in the wood chipper
Alternatively pretend to be furries, everybody and their grandma knows we low key fuck our pets too, but it's not really polite to bring it up. Don't do it in public, it's an instant ban.
tbh talking to non-furry zoos here feels so weird I can't even describe it, imagine not wanting to have several fursuits, an overflowing dossier full of porn of your character(s) and a separate ref sheet for your dick...
As for me, I dunno. Wouldn't really want my family knowing regardless if it's socially acceptable or not, would make playing with the family dogs super awkward. No more belly rubs ever forever cause they'll think I'm perving on them, you know they will think that. As for bestiality, at least it's not illegal where I am. And arguably even less so with my stuff and things, so I dunno, I'm fine either way, so whatever.
Alternatively pretend to be furries, everybody and their grandma knows we low key fuck our pets too, but it's not really polite to bring it up. Don't do it in public, it's an instant ban.
tbh talking to non-furry zoos here feels so weird I can't even describe it, imagine not wanting to have several fursuits, an overflowing dossier full of porn of your character(s) and a separate ref sheet for your dick...
As for me, I dunno. Wouldn't really want my family knowing regardless if it's socially acceptable or not, would make playing with the family dogs super awkward. No more belly rubs ever forever cause they'll think I'm perving on them, you know they will think that. As for bestiality, at least it's not illegal where I am. And arguably even less so with my stuff and things, so I dunno, I'm fine either way, so whatever.
vic21
Tourist
I don't think that the consent argument is really bulletproof as many people seem to think it is. I've actually personally beat it several times against vehement anti-zoos by citing the scientific literature and using some of the great arguments I've found on this site. As long as someone is intellectually honest and actually listens to our arguments, they're a lot better than anything they have on us when actually held up to honest scrutiny. They know it too, because they frequently work themselves into a corner when all of their points keep falling apart, so they simply fall back on that argument like you say and simply keep repeating it becomes true. They're not right, they just decided they are, which to any outside observers not also following in their denialist footsteps, is a pretty clear loss state in a debate.
It's scientific fact that animals enjoy sex just like we do, that animals have ways of communicating consent in both a broad sense as well as in a sexual one, as well as the ability to seek out and communicate their own desires for sex with humans and other animals. Many different species also masturbate, and many also engage in zoosexual behavior in the wild. The list really just goes on and on, and the more that we familiarize ourselves with that list, and become able to adequately convey those concepts to people that'll listen, the less lazy shit like the consent argument will be a problem for us.
We know its a bullshit argument, and if at least some people are intellectually honest, over years of slowly educating them they'll eventually come to the same conclusion. And as long as those people go on to further educate people themselves, I could see the narrative shift quickly once it reaches a critical mass.
Maybe I'll reword my question a little bit though, by 'like other sexuality' I'm talking more like legally allowed and at least as acceptable as homosexuality in its movements earlier days. I'm not expecting all ignorant people to vanish or even greatly diminish in even 20, 30 even 40+ years. I'm more interested in the goal of making our case to those who will listen with the goal of removing the threat of prison time for our sexuality. And then much like the aforementioned homosexuals, we can begin to erode at the social stigma and ignorance, and eventually as they did, reach a similar level of acceptance. There is still rampant homophobia in much of the world today, especially in America, but it is far better than it was even a decade ago, and with simply how wild the current times we live in are I think we can make bigger strides post legalization than most people think.
Yeah, the thing about the far left pushing for those types of individuals, as well as us, is that I'm noticing, especially with my generation of zoos and non-zoos alike (early 20's zoomers), the kiddie diddling bullshit isn't flying, but we seem to be far more open than previous generations when it comes to actually listening to the arguments of zoos. I think that many people who are pessimistic about our prospects of normalization are counting my generation out far too early. "There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks were decades happen." is a famous quote from Lenin. And while I'm definitely not a communist, that is true to some extent. Maybe not weeks, but definitely years, as evidenced by the last couple. I think people will be surprised what the next generations have the capability to accomplish simply because of how primed the world is for major cultural shifts right now at the same time this next more receptive generation is at our oldest only a couple years off of mid 20's, prime time for social movements.
Also, I think the furries are the ticket really, not just a cover. For one, many, many furs are closeted zoos. Most of them are self hating mostly due to having been told by society that they're evil animal rapists and simply believing that due to lack of education, one look at the feral community and that much is clear. They're basically low hanging fruit as far as collection of support goes, so long as you can make a good enough argument to them and they're willing to hear it, they already have a foot in the door so they're easier to convince than a non-furry. Also again, a shocking portion of those aforementioned early 20's zoomers are furries. The way its going, and with how open to furdom even non-fur zoomers seem to be, again if those people can be educated, like winning the support of younger generations was so vital to the lgbt movement, its vital to our moment too, and in a stroke of luck seems to be as receptive to us as it'll ever be.
I think we are a lot more like other sexualities than even other zoos seem to think, and if we get the ball rolling I think it'll start to snowball and more progress will be made than some people think.
And yeah, me too, I probably wouldn't want my family to know if it were acceptable, at least not until its been acceptable for quite some time. Once people get over the initial shock of it and understand that a zoo interacting with an animal does not necessitate sexual activity, just as gays being in contact with other males does not necessitate sexual activity, while it would most certainly not be easy to come out as a zoo as it is with any other sexuality, I'd be alright with it happening.
But really, at the end of the day, my main hope for the future as a young zoo is to be able to no longer be under the threat of legal persecution for my sexuality, and be able to feel at least safe from the government in meeting and interacting with fellow zoos IRL in zoo controlled locations. Again, goals not dissimilar to the goals of homosexuals at the start of their moment. Once the legal threats are removed, much like gays congregating at gay bars and in parts of cities friendly to them, we can do the same. And from that point we can really snowball the movement. There are incredible amounts of resistance pitted against us, but I think people forget a little just how much resistance there was for those who came before us at the start of their movements because of how impressive the strides that have been made more recently are. People like to cite how few zoos there are statistically in the world compared to homosexuals, though I'd disagree, I think those numbers are massively under-reported simply due to the social stigma and the fact that many people probably don't even know that they're zoos because of the taboo. The science is slowly but surely coming up in our favor, and we all already know we're not all evil animal rapists, so we should be taking that and running with it by educating and making people aware of both the science and our genuine efforts to protect animal well-being.
Also as a side note, I think we should be doing our best to differentiate zoosexuality from bestiality, like the term sodomy was used against the gays, bestiality is a term used against us. Bestiality, like sodomy, is rape, zoosexuality is not. Its a lower bar of difficulty to convince hateful, ignorant zoophobes that zoosexuality is not the same as bestiality, and that their hatred of bestiality, rape, is entirely justified, than it is to try to redefine the word bestiality. The more of those people become educated and start saying things like, "I hate bestiality because its rape, but zoosexuals are being lumped in with that incorrectly and shouldn't be persecuted.", the better for us. Additionally I think a lot of people are simply opposed to zoosexuality because again they lump us in with zoosadists, who are just sadistic animal abusers, so the more we distance ourselves from those kinds of people and educate people on the difference, the more people will realize over time that their general perception of zoosexuals as animal abusers mostly comes from the fact that a lot of the people who end up getting themselves in court, only got there in the first place because of the animal abuse which falsely inflates their perception of how common that behavior is.
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ADreamOfLiberty
ZooVille Philanthropist
It's not a matter of time, it's a matter of cause and effect. There are unpredictable cultural events/movements that cause counter-reactions etc... etc... and if something taboo like homosexuality, transexuality, smoking weed, or zoosexuality gets caught up in it things can happen very fast [two decade fast]. It can work the other way, suddenly a social movement forms and slavery or alcohol is illegal.
People who say it can't happen are as ignorant of the nature of history as the people who give timeframes before the 'avalanche' has started.
Also the merits of the arguments don't matter, I've proved that to myself many many times. Consent, zoonoses, "social cohesion", utility, "actually your a pedophile", are all excuses. Expose them when you encounter them but don't expect that to do anything.
People who say it can't happen are as ignorant of the nature of history as the people who give timeframes before the 'avalanche' has started.
Also the merits of the arguments don't matter, I've proved that to myself many many times. Consent, zoonoses, "social cohesion", utility, "actually your a pedophile", are all excuses. Expose them when you encounter them but don't expect that to do anything.
vic21
Tourist
I think we're on the same wavelength. The arguments against us are trash, we know that. The science is in our favor, we know that. I just think that with the way the world is, not only has that cultural movement already begun, but that it might not even take that long to snowball. Neither of us can really predict how long that'll take, I hope for 5-10 you were saying 20. Mainly I think 5-10 because of how receptive my generation (zoomers) are proving to be as we're now hitting our early to mid 20's, with how radical and outspoken we're proving to be as well as how primed the world is currently politically and socially for change, I think we might be the silver bullet.