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Furries and zoo

Funny enough I was hearing a similar topic on a furry Podcast while I was driving today as there's a group in the furry community that are trying to claim so many things should be 'cancelled' as inappropriate as it's a 'slippery slope'. Ferals, any art with non human genitals, and then it got weird as some animals should be better than others as acceptable as the more 'animalistic' they are the closer you get to SIN.

Just was interesting as they were all going "We don't want to fuck our dog but looking at realistic horse pussy on our art is not hurting anyone" so showing a nice middle ground on a bunch of the arguments though they are usually pretty conservative about their views usually so if any were zoos they are super closeted.
 
The community got swamped by a bunch of normies who just wanted to suit up or thought animal features make a body more sexy. They aggressively pushed for normalizing moral panic around things that the previous community consensus of tolerance could represent. LGBT was still socially controversial at the time of deciding this consensus in the 90's but it survived as society broadly moved to the left. Zoo on the other hand was pushed to the fringes.

Many of these young-ins have no idea about the foundation the culture started out of and do not care either, but it's one thing for something to go out of fashion and another for an entire grouping to be ostracized. Then there is also self-censorship which with the current cancel culture, anyone finding their friends ousted in public is forced to perform the disavowment mantra and conform. Something else, something more, is needed. An expansion or separation of sorts.

It's not stopping either as the SJW's keep looking for more fictional aspects to make unacceptable because they look too much like whatever thing they find icky IRL. The no-fun-allowed is expanding I'd say.

A key component of furry used to be tolerance and openness towards more marginalized sexual orientation groups. Now in its place there is an arbitrary list of what's acceptable instead that was decided by the majority, and that is the same system that keeps zoos closeted everywhere else.
 
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Kitsune-In-Heat said:
The community got swamped by a bunch of normies who just wanted to suit up or thought animal features make a body more sexy. They aggressively pushed for normalizing moral panic around things that the previous community consensus of tolerance could represent. LGBT was still socially controversial at the time of deciding this consensus in the 90's but it survived as society broadly moved to the left. Zoo on the other hand was pushed to the fringes.

Many of these young-ins have no idea about the foundation the culture started out of and do not care either, but it's one thing for something to go out of fashion and another for an entire grouping to be ostracized. Then there is also self-censorship which with the current cancel culture, anyone finding their friends ousted in public is forced to perform the disavowment mantra and conform. Something else, something more, is needed. An expansion or separation of sorts.

It's not stopping either as the SJW's keep looking for more fictional aspects to make unacceptable because they look too much like whatever thing they find icky IRL. The no-fun-allowed is expanding I'd say.

A key component of furry used to be tolerance and openness towards more marginalized sexual orientation groups. Now in its place there is an arbitrary list of what's acceptable instead that was decided by the majority, and that is the same system that keeps zoos closeted everywhere else.
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In my short 5 years in the IRL fandom I've found it to be a sort of panic. A lot of the loud people tend to be the small newbie producers who unlike the "OGs" don't have the name, experience, or as they put it... "Clout" to afford to have their own narrative so they eagerly watch for each loud topic and start screaming about it in a panic to remain relevant. The eng game is long as it stays below leadership level for cons and message boards were fine but with people like Treble leading the path to a new con calendar and staffing the cons with newbies it's only a matter of time before the fandom experiences a mass exodus out of sheer loss of interest by the majority to be bothered, annoyed, or attacked by the minority any further.
 
StuffedCali said:
In my short 5 years in the IRL fandom I've found it to be a sort of panic. A lot of the loud people tend to be the small newbie producers who unlike the "OGs" don't have the name, experience, or as they put it... "Clout" to afford to have their own narrative so they eagerly watch for each loud topic and start screaming about it in a panic to remain relevant. The eng game is long as it stays below leadership level for cons and message boards were fine but with people like Treble leading the path to a new con calendar and staffing the cons with newbies it's only a matter of time before the fandom experiences a mass exodus out of sheer loss of interest by the majority to be bothered, annoyed, or attacked by the minority any further.
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As it has already been pointed out, there is enough you can do the way of fantasy animal sex, correct anatomy, stories going in-depth about what makes the animal parts of a feral attractive etc to send quiet signals to like-minded individuals and gather round and eventually be able to come out to those you'd trust.

What I think happened here is while the community was small-time, this was working. Once the community got enough of a spotlight and prominence in the public consciousness and started attracting masses and greater attention from its financing systems and authorities, it was forced to conform. We all remember various small-time communities during the early internet where it was common on many forums for stuff including copyrighted downloads used to move around freely in plain sight before it attracted enough attention to bring the authorities down on it and set up a more strict regulatory framework. A lot of what was possible back then wouldn't fly today.
 
Unpopular opinion (with furries, lol): 90% of furries are actually zoos, but like 50% of that are zoos in denial (they think they're better than others, in control of themselves to the point where they can deny the physical side, etc.) and that makes them dangerous as fuck with the callout stuff. Dangerous because they have that weird internal need to spend time outing others to feel better about themselves, or whatever. Safest way to navigate is to discuss fantasy and work out how adverse they'd be to acting that fantasy out without admitting anything. Even then, be really REALLY careful with furries.
 
Personal experience over the past solid decade... Every furry friend ive talked to who had/have a male dog, were either curious or already practicing. Local friends i have met up with let me play with their dogs, and one guy i had the pleasure of helping out for his first knot and tie.

Summary... I know many furs who are zoo. Not many who practice but many who want to and are curious. But in total id say its a small percentage these days after the influx of furs over the last 10 years or so..
 
DogMichael said:
The kids are the weird ones, they're coming in from friend groups of autofascistic social media purity police. I don't know what to make of it, except to point out that a lot of them eventually grow up and realize how weird they were being.
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It's wild because it feels like that's such a strange, new development in furry. Furry in the 90s and early 00s had more people with zeta badges being fairly overt.
 
btdc69 said:
Every time I see a Twitter debate involving some SJWs talking about how animal dicks on anthros is wrong and immoral
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Interesting how most of these SJWs claim to support LGBTQ+ and "fight for rights of minorities" and label anyone who do not completely agree with them as "intolerant hypocrite", but the biggest intolerant hypocrites are them themselves and this is a great example of it. :)
 
My experience with zoos in a furry community is that there are many people who openly claim to be anti-zoo, but are in fact closet zoos. There are also many people who (in many cases openly) claim to be zoos, but are in fact interested only in the sexual part, without any deeper feelings for animals. Then, there is a smaller group of people who really are zoos and most of them found furry community because of their (zoophilic) orientation, not vice versa.
 
I'm solely attracted to some animals for aesthetic purposes alone, such as dogs or horses. They cannot fulfill my emotional needs because they aren't smart or communicative enough in a way humans can understand to do so. I look at those who claim they're in love with their pets the same way I look at those who believe in a flat earth or higher power, as delusional. People who claim they're in love with their animals think that somehow justifies their sexual attraction versus those who only fuck for horny biological reasons. Knowing I can't fall in love with a dog or a horse, and that I'm nervous about being hurt by either one if I were to play with them incorrectly, and because I don't think I'll ever meet someone online I could trust to talk about that stuff openly, I don't foresee myself engaging in zoo activity in this life. However I don't try to cancel others period, and if I found out they were being abusive to animals I'd try to convince them to stop privately since I don't want to be responsible for ruining someone's life.
 
So far what I see in the fandom and I have been around for awhile is that there's a good number of furs into zoo but these days not many talk about it cause being called out and confirmed doing so makes you apprently a monster so alot of furs are zoo but you'll never know and they don't generally want to try or be open about it
 
StoneMountainDoggy said:
There was a time in the 90s and 2000s when you'd just see people walk their intact dogs through the hotel lobbies and wear their Zeta pins with pride. It's a little more underground these days, but every convention and every website have at least some zoos on staff. We're a vital and integral part of the community.
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What does the zeta logo look like?
 
Riffraffroff said:
What does the zeta logo look like?
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zheader.jpg
 
I'm recently getting into being interested in furry culture. I've see costumes for 2k-3k and thought nahhh I'll pass. Too expensive. But recently found a site that sells what to me seems to be pretty decent and cute outfits. I've tried on just the headpiece so far. I love it. They custom made colors I choose and it only took a month to get. $350 couldn't pass it up even though it'll be a long while before I even get to possibly attend my first convention. Thanks covid!!
 

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byftpup said:
I'm a cautious old pup. I am zoo and furry but not in that order.. my zoo is like my sexuality none of anyones dog damn business but mine and those that I interact with in the 'bedroom'. My furriness is more like my gender.. (although I think that analogy is probably a bit of a stretch.)

A little story about why I'm cautious.
I witnessed the rise of a person's popularity as a fur, then their sudden unpopularity as people became aware of their predilections became known. They then became a bit of a novelty as people friended them for sexual 'try before you buy' purposes but not because they were a great person but was the only out fur into zoo with access to a dog. It wasn't pretty, the general scene not the dog.. I also heard all the horrid things people said behind their back. Being the gutless wonder I can be, I didn't stand up for them or even advocate a fur/zoo perspective. I didn't really approve of the way the dog was being used - that was my judgement. I watched them decline into quite an unhealthy psychological state before I stopped interacting with that fur.

So that's why I'm cautious, but I'm also old, and remember the days when it was 'bad' to be gay.. Do what you feel is safe when talking to furs about your zoo feelings, and try to understand that people might not support your feelings. It''s always hard talking about a taboo subject. As it becomes 'less' taboo it gets easier.. but you still get that negative reaction. Be strong and explore your life, you will find support when you need/ask for it.
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Yup... similar experience here. Did get involved with some of SoCalFur zoos and that was.. painful. Actually, most of the Furry zoos I've met IRL have been a little messed up. But I also know quite a few on line who seem relatively sane and nice people. Back in the late 80s and early 90s, being a Furry Zoo wasn't that big a thing. I mean, the overlap is kind of obvious - humping a person with a dog's head and tail and general colour and attributes just isn't that far from humping an actual dog. Most zoos would love a dog that could chat with you and maybe help do the dishes and that's kind of what an anthro is.

But by the late 90s and into 2000, things changed and being zoo was bad. All my zoo friends in the fandom went underground. Most of them have vanished entirely or get together at furcons and have private con parties where you have to get vetted and recommended to get in. Ironically, I can't get into those sort of things because it's a whole new generation and I've been disconnected for too long.

I used to post zoo/fur art on FA but that got really weird so I don't do that anymore, which is ironic because a lot of zoo furs tell me that my old drawings from the 80s is what helped deal with their sexuality and helped them find the furry community.

Ah well, at least I helped people along the way. :)

Me? I'm on my own and don't really socialize much anymore. I'm sure there are good furs and good zoos out there - but to a degree, being a zoo means you're probably happier with an animal as a companion (and no - I don't mean sex, although if it's that too then awesome). Still... there are times when it would be nice to have someone to talk to about it all.
 
Everyone expresses their sexuality individually - definitely disagree with the couple of posts saying "all furs are zoo because there are knots in the art sometimes" - having been in the fandom for 15 years or so, I've met people all over the spectrum of zoo/zoo-curious/zoo-friendly/zoo-averse

Having lots of feral art seems to increase the odds, but I've even met a fair number of feral roleplayers who weren't comfortable with irl stuff.

..and also a couple times where someone I recognized who was pretty vanilla would join a zoo group I was in and I'd be like "OwO didn't expect that" xD
 
I was into zoo well before I was a furry. Having spent the last few years around some furries, it seems there's a very large backlash in the community to zoo
There's a good chance a lot of that is just closeted denial, but I wouldn't come out to any furries unless I already knew them to be zoo
I'd actually really like to meet a zoo fur at a con some time, just so I could have a chat with them. Though, having only been to one con so far, chances are low. If anyone here is going to any Aussie cons this year, send me a message, I'd love to know someone I can chat more openly with
 
ScotExotic said:
I made the mistake of just assuming all furs would naturally be into zoo ha. Im surprised how many of them are so against it.
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It's surprising, definitely. Had one friend excommunicated from a large portion of his friends, not because he was into zoo, but because he openly talked with someone who was, didn't reprimand him
There's a chance of a lot of closeted zoo, but you really gotta be careful who you open up to
 
ScotExotic said:
Havent thought of that but yeah same thing might be going on
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I just makes sense, when you think about how much drama is going on there, and how everybody tries to be the perfect popu-fur.
All these furries with their liking for knotted cocks and other animal like genitalia, they ARE zoo to some degree, but would never admit it to themselves, let alone others.
It's a weird world we live in, everybody prays to be open and to live who you are, yet there is so much hate and drama :/
 
sparkoflife said:
Given how many animal genitals there are on e621 I'd say a good chunk of furries are zoo.
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Yes there are a lot of animal genitals on there, but I once answered a question someone ask about anatomy on a picture, and received a neutral score warning for explaining how something worked with the reason given "We don't need to know that." I was not being particularly explicit just a fairly dry description of the real biology that allowed for what was being seen in the picture. So at least one mod there was very anti zoo and if ever I saw anyone banned for being to openly zoo on there it was done by that person. So even if a community on a site is more broadly accepting the people who run the site need to be also. The artist Darkmare actually had his work deleted for his feral on feral art being too realistic (his art is often incredibly detailed) I think he gave up on the site after one of his pictures was said to be not up to the artistic quality standards of the site. He still is around on InkBunny though and still turns out some great stuff when he gets the time to draw.
 
btdc69 said:
Furry zoo here. From my experience, most furries that I've told are either also into it or were okay with my interest but didn't want to hear much about it after the fact. But I never outright told people without sharing feral art with them first just to see how they'd react to it.

I am pretty selective with furries I interact with though, primarily due to how toxic the community is towards zoo. I would like to find more furry zoos as I don't know many personally, but it's not easy to do that when one wrong move will screw you over pretty hard. Every time I see a Twitter debate involving some SJWs talking about how animal dicks on anthros is wrong and immoral, I'm pretty sure I age by roughly 25 years and it definitely makes me just want to not even take the risk.
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It is possible you know more than you think, I didn't know another fur was a zoo until I came across him here using the same name as I knew him in the fandom. He didn't know me at first because I use different names in both communities, mind you given some of the zoo stories I've written it probably wouldn't take much for any one to draw the correct conclusion over me being a zoo.
 
CanisLupus said:
Then, there is a smaller group of people who really are zoos and most of them found furry community because of their (zoophilic) orientation, not vice versa.
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That's what happened in my case; I was searching the internet for pictures of the real thing and found furry art. I was driven further into the fandom side of things, when most the commercial so called zoo videos at the time were slightly to straight up abusive to the animal. I started getting depressed when watching these things because I was still getting off to the animals, but I knew enough to know they weren't completely consenting based on what I knew of their body language, thus I turned to the fandom as a place to get yiffy material to get off too where I knew there could be no harm coming to any real animal for my pleasure.
 
smoothasbutter said:
Animals cannot fulfill my emotional needs because they aren't smart or communicative enough in a way humans can understand to do so. I look at those who claim they're in love with their pets the same way I look at those who believe in a flat earth or higher power, as delusional.
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Hmmm, So let me get this right your saying that because animals cannot fulfill "your" emotional needs, that anyone who claim to love their animal and feels that animal does fulfill "their" emotional needs is delusional. I suspect your talking to the wrong people to float that boat in these waters.
 
Kahtoc said:
It's surprising, definitely. Had one friend excommunicated from a large portion of his friends, not because he was into zoo, but because he openly talked with someone who was, didn't reprimand him
There's a chance of a lot of closeted zoo, but you really gotta be careful who you open up to
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Have things gotten that bad now; :gsd_sad: It's been years since I actually have attended an event, but I learnt my lesson at MIDfur many years ago when I was a little naive and I spoke to a few people too openly, the reaction wasn't that incredibly bad but it wasn't positive across the board either. Once I learnt Furry didn't equal Zoo and simply didn't mention my sexuality unless specificly ask about being zoo I never had a problem.
That said I have also never denied it if a fur straight out asked me either.
 
HugDoggy said:
Have things gotten that bad now; :gsd_sad: It's been years since I actually have attended an event, but I learnt my lesson at MIDfur many years ago when I was a little naive and I spoke to a few people too openly, the reaction wasn't that incredibly bad but it wasn't positive across the board either. Once I learnt Furry didn't equal Zoo and simply didn't mention my sexuality unless specificly ask about being zoo I never had a problem.
That said I have also never denied it if a fur straight out asked me either.
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Unfortunately, yes. There's a really strong anti zoo culture, particularly among the younger generation of furs. I'm sure a lot of the older ones remember the glory days (which was sadly before my time too), but they gotta keep things quiet about that or they'll get pretty much excommunicated by the younger generation
Annoyingly, I'm in the middle of the two. Too young to have joined in the past, too old to have any say with the young crew. Just gonna keep to myself throughout various Aussie cons unless I know someone from here is going
 
I'm furry and zoo as well and it was an evolving process.
I was into furry art first, then became interested in yiff stuff, but nothing with animal genitalia, only human ones. Sometime later I got used to the look of animal genitalia in the drawings throughout the web and then I started to prefer it. About two years later I got curious about zoo stuff and had my first experience and I loved it.
But I never talked to anyone about zoo, only about furry art and these kind of things. Too afraid of my life falling apart because of it being out to the public
 
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