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Zoophilia in history

I have used the search function on this thread and the whole website, so that's my due diligence and if this is already posted it can be deleted.

So I was watching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-TyUIc5Gro, I love channels like this BTW. I can never get enough history/anthropology.

If you don't want to watch it these people called the Moche lived on the west coast of south america (Inca territory) but they were before the Inca. They made ceramics/pottery with explicit sexual content. When he said that it included all sorts of things including animals I immediately looked it up. I have never seen bestiality explicitly depicted in the pre-columbian Americas.

Now I have:
MocheDogOnHuman.jpg
This is a crop from a full picture display which can be found here.

I think he's a dog, I can't find exactly what it is and there aren't any better pictures I can find, someone could go to this display and get more angles. The reason I think he's a dog is the spots. Not many animals have spots in general, a jaguar perhaps but the snout and tail are wrong. Now look at the dogs they had around at the time:
moche-spotted-dog.jpg
I don't know the gender of the human. Apparently a theme with this erotic pottery is anal rather than vaginal penetration.

In researching I found this quote:
Ancient-Origins.net said:
and intercourse between human females and mythical animals (such as the bat and the jaguar who both had special religious connotations in Moche culture).”
I couldn't find the bat depiction with a human female described. The article could mean this image but probably another with an obvious jaguar is meant.

As we well know the penis from this 'dog' isn't right for either a dog or a cat, being a generic cylinder. This could just be lack of detailing or it could indicate this is more theory than practice for the artist. Certainly the other examples had very detailed human anatomy sometimes, and sometimes human anatomy (which must have been well known) was reduced to a boring cylinder.

In the same display we see this:
MocheManOnCat.jpg
I think that's a cat, the only indication I have is the ears which are definitely not human.

Here we can see a humanoid god with a jaguar tail. It's a big image.
Moche,_bottiglia_con_rappresentazione_di_coito_rituale_e_sciamano,_03.JPG
An example of some good old fashioned mouse on mouse action:
MocheMice.jpg

Can we conclude from this that the Moche were practicing bestiality? No deductively, but remember how much evidence they had that Alexander of Macedon was homosexual before they started publishing it all over the web.

What we can say is that the concept was not alien to these people. One could easily make a strong case that only the blind would not notice the fact that sexuality is a common factor with animals, but it helps to have a complete record of it.

This all but disproves the never-advanced-but-now-hopeless hypothesis that some post-ice age pervert invented the idea.

I wouldn't bring these people up as a shining beacon though, like all olmec derived civilizations they seem to consider ritual killing kosher.
 
Quite beautiful, i would love a replica. What does the text on the first one say?
Well I included it in the picture in case one our french speakers could read it. I do not know french, and the text is not entirely clear. I read through it at first looking for any mention of the animal, gender, etc... I thought it was far more generic talking about funeral practices and stuff. Here is my copy of the text google translation (I once again repeat I don't know french, I cannot correct the spelling off the top of my head in the cases I couldn't read the letters, don't laugh too hard):
La ceramique est l'heritage le plus important que nous alent laisse les cultures peruveinnes

Elle est constituee pour une grande part d'offrandes funeralres qui etalent deposees dana les sepultures

Le culte funeralres des anciens peruviens se rattache a la croyance universelle d'une survie outre-tombe, de l'lmmortalite de l'ame, d'une projection de la force vitale au deja de is mort.

Ceramic is the most important heritage that peruvein cultures leave us.

It is made up to a large extent of funeral offerings which are laid down in the sepultures.

The funeral cult of the ancient peruvein is linked to the universal belief of a survival beyond the grave, of the lmmortalite of the soul, of a projection of the vital force to the already of is dead.
 
I think that's a cat, the only indication I have is the ears which are definitely not human.
Can as well be a dog with small ears or long, even fur. The details are somewhat "off" from reality, the artist might not have had any idea how the dogs are built anatomically, aside from what they saw in terms of the fur. Then it might resemble something of the shape of a Shiba Inu.

But the details are even more off regarding a wild (big) cat type, as those rarely bear a thick coating of fur.

You see, if my dog is dry, people call her a beauty and such a floofy elegant built. Ever saw a horrific big mutated rat the size a dog? That's how Siberian Huskies would look without fur or after a bath which soaks the under wool. As such I wouldn't project too much into the missing details of the resembling - what artists capture visually doesn't mean to resemble the reality.
 
For any spanish speakers around here, have a look at this please:
Mas alla de lo que la tradición y el folclore han propuesto y dispuesto sobre la epopeya del hombre rural de la pampa rioplatense, hay otra figura que la realidad histórica la impone.
El Gaucho homofóbico, xenofóbico y machista que ha diseñado el moderno concepto, nada tiene que ver con el hombre real que practicaba sin prejuicios, la homosexualidad, la zoofilia y otros vicios desechables en su concepto moderno.
I don't speak spanish myself, so... anybody here have this book (or are willing to get it)? Can you tell me more it? Does it stand up as historically trustworthy or is it just some pulp fantasy about pervy gauchos?
 
For any spanish speakers around here, have a look at this please:

I don't speak spanish myself, so... anybody here have this book (or are willing to get it)? Can you tell me more it? Does it stand up as historically trustworthy or is it just some pulp fantasy about pervy gauchos?


I haven't read this particular study - my Spanish is still a work in progress - but in one of her articles, Miletski mentioned a study on gauchos in Brazil and Uruguay. This study claimed that "bestiality" was part of the gauchos' lives as a herdsmen's or rural tradition, but only as some sort of initiation and not a regular activity.
 
For any spanish speakers around here, have a look at this please:



I haven't read this particular study - my Spanish is still a work in progress - but in one of her articles, Miletski mentioned a study on gauchos in Brazil and Uruguay. This study claimed that "bestiality" was part of the gauchos' lives as a herdsmen's or rural tradition, but only as some sort of initiation and not a regular activity.
no other living thing but animals for miles, no easy access to women.
I bet money it IS a regular occurrence, just you get older and more discreet about such things
 
A few years ago, I watch a sensible, normal documentary about Roman gladiators. All good and vanilla (and very interesting). At one point, the aspect of pleasing the crowd was reviewed. This was early showbiz, after all. People wanted to see more ferocious lions, more athletic gladiators, indeed more of everything. If watching humans losing their lives was viewed as entertainment (albeit the modern Hollywood action movie is the equivalent nowadays), the bar was set low on what would be permitted. And that included slave girls, according to the documentary, herded into the arena to be mated by dogs as the crowd cheered and jeered to show the depravity of barbarians. I would love to say the slave girls were granted their freedom and paraded on shoulders through the streets for their magnificent role in zoophilia history. Sadly, no such luck. After being mated, they had their throats cut. To those about to mate, we salute you.
Bestiality in roman society was not reserved to the arena and not often used as punishment a number of roman historians wrote in passing on the subject, as did some greek historians
 
Thanks for this thread and for the many contributions to it, it is very interesting and has led me down several different paths for followup reading. I have always been particularly interested in mythology and how people have always created larger than life stories to try to explain human behavior, and to control (repress) behavior. That includes zoo of course, because just as this thread discusses, yep people throughout history have been doing this, too. So both tendencies are out there, to want to express it, and to try to repress it.

One Greek myth that I don't think has been mentioned here is the story of Pasiphaë, who was the wife of Minos, King of Crete. As the story goes, Minos pisses off Poseidon, who of course doesn't punish Minos directly, but instead decides to take it out on his wife Pasiphaë by giving her a desire to have sex with a bull. The idea of the story, in this case, being to bring her down in stature by partaking in something "unnatural." And the result of their mating is the Minotaur, a symbol of dark, bestial, repressed parts of human nature.

Personally, I like the lesser known parts of the story which are Pasiphaë's reaction. She tries her best to nurture Asterion (the Minotaur), makes a potion that causes Minos to spurt out scorpions and millipedes when he has sex with other women, and in her spare time tries to ovethrow the gods. She is a badass, and all I can say is "you go, girl."

Quite a story! As with many of the myth stories, as wild as they can be and whatever the intent of the storyteller, they end up showing that human nature is wild and can't be stopped.
 

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So to think all of this is slowly but surely getting outlawed in numerous places world wide ..... Sad that the history that mankind wants erased, they'll try their best to erase ..... But hey that's how the government works I guess ..... I'm glad I grew up on a farm ..... Wouldn't change it for the world ..... ?
 
I am convinced that Diogenes of Sinope was probably a zoo.

If he was, then you know he would have practiced because he rejected all social conventions, and he was deliberately subversive. You know that, if he thought he could get someone's goat by fucking a dog in public, he probably would do it just on account. In fact, Diogenes was convinced that squeamishness was among the primary defects of the human race and was really an unpardonable fault.

In fact, I would even speculate, adventurously, that his zooishness may have been the inspiration behind his entire philosophy, and his philosophy inspired Zeno of Citium to found the philosophy of Stoicism, which is the very foundation of the modern concept of social justice...or any kind of equality based justice at all, frankly.
I had never considered that about Diogenes. Hmmm... Worth thinking about. Thanks!
 
I have strong ideas that powerful men in history have had female spouses that enjoyed animals. Ranging from ancient Egyptian pharaohs to United States presidents and Wall Street Titans.

I think it’s possible men achieve a peaceful sense of mind knowing their wives are sexually satisfied anytime, without other random people involved.
 
I have strong ideas that powerful men in history have had female spouses that enjoyed animals. Ranging from ancient Egyptian pharaohs to United States presidents and Wall Street Titans.

I think it’s possible men achieve a peaceful sense of mind knowing their wives are sexually satisfied anytime, without other random people involved.
LOL this is pure fantasy you've made up in your mind to justify your own fetish you have absolutely zero proof of this.
 
LOL this is pure fantasy you've made up in your mind to justify your own fetish you have absolutely zero proof of this.
I’m not trying to prove anything to anyone

To my own personal knowledge, it was common theme for Egyptian royals. If you ever found time to delve into that part of history I’m sure you would find it.
 
I think it’s possible men achieve a peaceful sense of mind knowing their wives are sexually satisfied anytime, without other random people involved.

Interesting, if I had a partner, I wouldn't tolerate them having sex with other humans, specially because they put me on risk of getting a STD, or getting pregnant with a kid that is not mine. But I'm totally OK with them having sex with animals (and me too of course :gsd_laughing:), considering I don't have a big libido and I'm not much into humans, so maybe they'll need that to be sexually satisfied.
 
I’m not trying to prove anything to anyone

To my own personal knowledge, it was common theme for Egyptian royals. If you ever found time to delve into that part of history I’m sure you would find it.
And what about the "United States presidents and Wall Street Titans" you so boldly claim with your strong ideas? Nothing more than strong fantasy and what you want to believe.
 
And what about the "United States presidents and Wall Street Titans" you so boldly claim with your strong ideas? Nothing more than strong fantasy and what you want to believe.
That’s just my assumptions, not a fantasy.
How many US presidents have taken office?
46 presidents? I’m no master of bestiality in population statics, but if ( 1 out of 46 men ) was a closet zoo (himself and/or wife) IN or OUT of his Presidency.
Isn’t ( 1/46 ) a reasonable statistical guess?

I’d also like to point out Early America the abundance of 10x more family farms compared to present day. Talk about privacy. No cars, no internet, no government ID. Weekly town trips. We owned slaves. Basically a decentralized government compared to what we have in 2022.


Now Wallstreet Titans. What’s to doubt about that? Men own islands. Own a zoo? Done. With enough money it doesn’t matter how ugly, old or fat you are. Any fantasy can be fulfilled with money, sadly even human trafficking.
Most millionaires and billionaires are pretty fucking smart, above average intellectually and like to read.
They are likely the individuals in populations that have the smallest chance in life to ever get busted. Filthy fucking rich.
 
Plenty of spit and shine - A brief whip around the net brings up a 2002 Guardian article explaining these were "chosen by the French archivist Michel Reilhac from a recently discovered stash of over 100 such films". IMDb lists credits for original music and sound. I vaguely recall that when it first came out I read that the remastering of the films was in part paid for with a national heritage grant from the Ministry of Culture.
I can't vouch for these photos, but they look early, and look genuine to me.
I bet there are some really old zoo videos out there.
 
That’s just my assumptions, not a fantasy.
How many US presidents have taken office?
46 presidents? I’m no master of bestiality in population statics, but if ( 1 out of 46 men ) was a closet zoo (himself and/or wife) IN or OUT of his Presidency.
Isn’t ( 1/46 ) a reasonable statistical guess?

I’d also like to point out Early America the abundance of 10x more family farms compared to present day. Talk about privacy. No cars, no internet, no government ID. Weekly town trips. We owned slaves. Basically a decentralized government compared to what we have in 2022.


Now Wallstreet Titans. What’s to doubt about that? Men own islands. Own a zoo? Done. With enough money it doesn’t matter how ugly, old or fat you are. Any fantasy can be fulfilled with money, sadly even human trafficking.
Most millionaires and billionaires are pretty fucking smart, above average intellectually and like to read.
They are likely the individuals in populations that have the smallest chance in life to ever get busted. Filthy fucking rich.

There has never been one accusation, rumor, whistleblower, or anything about a US president or anyone wealthy like you say - and there's been plenty of accusations about other things.

This is total fantasy.
 
There has never been one accusation, rumor, whistleblower, or anything about a US president or anyone wealthy like you say - and there's been plenty of accusations about other things.

This is total fantasy.
You believe a total fantasy that 0 out of 92 people (presidents and spouses) never experimented with bestiality during their lifetimes.

If anyone on here agrees with you, I’ll be pleasantly surprised.
 
I saw this in person in the museum in Naples. I know Pan is technically not a human but these sorts of themes seem really common in ancient Roman art.

Naples-archaeology-museum-800.jpg
This ancient sculpture became of instrumental importance when it was dug out of the ground in the early years of the excavations of Pompeji, beginning around 1750, and it would soon become one of very many erotic pictures, statues, sculptures and other kinds of objects with various erotic themes.

Before the excavations of Pompeji and Herculaneum european intellectuals had very vague ideas about the ancient Graeco-Roman culture summarized in J.J. Winckelmann's famous saying "Edle Einfalt und stille Grösse" (English translation: "Noble simplicity and calm grandour") - well, goat god Pan fucking a nanny goat, is it "noble simplicity"? "Calm grandour"? Or what?

The Pompeji excavations resulted in a fierce culture clash and the result was a) making a special section of the Museo Borbonico, The Secret Museum, where all the erotic objects were put under lock and key; b) starting to use a strange ancient word: Pornography.
 
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