Should using bait in licking videos be banned (please read first)?

[underdoge]

I want to see what the community thinks about officially making a rule to remove videos that features licking that uses peanut butter or other "bait" to encourage licking.

Reasons against the new rule:

Dogs that just met a person will sometimes licking cum, sweat, etc, all on their own. Those dogs can't have any bond or sexual attachment yet. Sexual feelings may be involved in licking with established partners but I think it's clear that those feelings are not necessary for licking to happen. That makes me think sweat and cum is bait and not very different from peanut butter or other baits. Licking videos with peanut butter are not harmful to the animal or the person, and harm should be required to remove videos that people have put a lot of time and effort to make for other's enjoyment. One of the main arguments zoos use to justify animal relations is by talking about the lack of harm and I believe in being consistent with our reasoning.

Reasons for the new rule:

Pes: "It falls under the category of forcing an animal to do sexual stuff to you. In this case tricking the animal into it.
It is a dishonest and disingenuous practice that does not respect the animal's sexual desires or the lack off." More info: https://www.zoovilleforum.net/threads/training-animals-for-sex.25903/

Me: It isn't what I would want to show people if they don't know what zoo is and want to figure out what we're about. I don't expect to be able to know for sure if my animal partner is licking for sexual reasons since taste would be plenty reason enough, but acting based on sexual attachment / care is the gold standard that I strive for so for my own animals I want to remove other motivations.

 

[pes]

There is not an explicit rule against this right now, but a strong history of content like that being removed by other mods as well.
It falls under the category of forcing an animal to do sexual stuff to you. In this case tricking the animal into it.
It is a dishonest and disingenuous practice that does not respect the animal's sexual desires or the lack off. Instead you make an animal do sexual stuff to you removing their own decision. Therefore I and other mods remove that.

Since most of the forum is made of fetishists who for the most part do not care about animals in porn, over time you can expect to get a skewed results for not removing baiting.

 

[Oldman]

No amount votes will change our opinion and belief that this is absolutely wrong. This rule will not change. It falls under the forced category.

 

[shortbutfast]

What standard do we use to weigh the votes of people here?

well considering this is a privately run forum and not a free-for-all or democracy, the standard is what the administration believes to be proper, and in this case, ethical.

 

[Reconscope]

Why is this similar to @FloofyNewfie s post about peanut butter.

 

[pes]

Why is this similar to @FloofyNewfie s post about peanut butter.

Because it is similar. Post the link if you have it.

 

[pes]

What standard do we use to weigh the votes of people here?

I am not a moderator or in charge of the rules. In fact there is still a hierarchy among the staff and all changes to the rules I have suggested went through the higher up people.

Who's "our"?

See post 6, that is how I understand the structure.

 

[Oldman]

Who's "our"? We are a community. I am against all forms of arbitrary enforcement and that would mean creating a community supported rule before removing things based on opinions. I respect your opinion though and again food baiting isn't what I would do myself.

Every single mod has removed that sort of content without there being an explicit rule prohibiting it. It is common sense that baiting is forced. This may be a community, but it will follow our rules which have been debated upon before and have been decided. This community like all other communities needs leaders and rules have been thought of, thought about, debated and decided.

They are not arbitrary and those that feel that way are welcome to leave.

 

[Reconscope]

Thread 'Peanut Butter *Sexy* Time?' https://www.zoovilleforum.net/threads/peanut-butter-sexy-time.22669/

Yep found it

 

[Goattobeloved]

Just to keep things in focus:

Poll being well set, this is not a discussion about the morality if licking or not, which is something DF worthy.

It is if such thing is something people want to have at this site in the porn section.

Such videos have historically been deleted at mods discretion, so setting a rule about it would only save us a few discussions like this poll.

 

[shortbutfast]

Every single mod has removed that sort of content without there being an explicit rule prohibiting it. It is common sense that baiting is forced. This may be a community, but it will follow our rules which have been debated upon before and have been decided. This community like all other communities needs leaders and rules have been thought of, thought about, debated and decided.

They are not arbitrary and those that feel that way are welcome to leave.

when i think of zoo pride it's having a community that shares a love and respect first for these animals, love and respect that is always prioritized over sexual gratification.

that pride is more recent for me after many many years of shame in part from the association by proxy with folks who, to put it simply, are the complete foil to that philosophy.

thank you.

 

[pes]

if it's common sense then the poll results should reflect that.

Not here.

Since most of the forum is made of fetishists who for the most part do not care about animals in porn, over time you can expect to get a skewed results for not removing baiting.

The proof of that is the abusive porn cleanup thread.

 

[Goattobeloved]

I'll talk more about this later after the results are in, but if it's common sense then the poll results should reflect that. If you feel certain standards need to be applied for people to be experienced enough to make that judgement, like a post count (something anyone can meet and is merit based), then I'm open to hearing about it.

I am an experienced community member who doesn't even watch porn and I disagree with the new rule. If I can disagree then I think there can and probably will be other experienced community members who also disagree.

Private site, no democracy.

If it serves, I am in a region that does ilegal polls for independency, so this site is more democratic in that allows, even encorages, a non vinculant consulting poll.

If something, the ones with right to vote would be owners, philantropist who contributed money and staff who contribute time.

If not, I for one, would vote to delete the porn section, save a lot on bandwith, syorage and loss of face for the content

 

[TheVikingDog]

I know some may not like it, but if you let a dog lick peanut butter off your fingers or any other body part i dont think the dog really cares if one has to look at it logically, I dont think a dog is really thinking to much of it wether its licking a finger or something else, most likely the dog are only thinking that the peaunt butter is tasty and not much else, but I guess its all up to the person how they feel about it, one should just remember that a dog is a dog and it thinks like a dog, dogs will lick at anything they find that smells like food etc, ive seen my dog eat its own poop, so to think it cares about licking peanutbutter off a penis is maybe abit overthinking things wags

 

[shortbutfast]

I know some may not like it, but if you let a dog lick peanut butter off your fingers or any other body part i dont think the dog really cares if one has to look at it logically, I dont think a dog is really thinking to much of it wether its licking a finger or something else, most likely the dog are only thinking that the peaunt butter is tasty and not much else, but I guess its all up to the person how they feel about it, one should just remember that a dog is a dog and it thinks like a dog, dogs will lick at anything they find that smells like food etc, ive seen my dog eat its own poop, so to think it cares about licking peanutbutter off a penis is maybe abit overthinking things wags

the dog being a dog and thinking mm peanut butter is the problem. it removes the element of consent. dogs can think 'oo horny lick sex smell juice', they can have no interest in a sex smell spot on their owner at all as well. thats the consent.
if theyre thinking 'sweet its peanutbutter' we're manipulating their behavior for sexual gratification. youre right in that this is not going to physically effect a dog, but ethics arent determined purely by outcome unless youre machiavelli

 

[Johnterry4658]

If a dog wants peanut butter, then give the dog peanut butter (preferably the doggie peanut butter)
Peanut butter is not some kind of aperitif to get the dog ready to suck a man, or lick a woman.

 

[Oldman]

I'll talk more about this later after the results are in, but if it's common sense then the poll results should reflect that. If you feel certain standards need to be applied for people to be experienced enough to make that judgement, like a post count (something anyone can meet and is merit based), then I'm open to hearing about it.

I am an experienced community member who doesn't even watch porn and I disagree with the new rule. If I can disagree then I think there can and probably will be other experienced community members who also disagree.

Disagree all you want. The rule will not change. For someone touting they have experience, you are showing that you know nothing about dog behaviour and psychology.

Post count means absolutely dick when it comes to actual experience.

I feel that our members will do a much a better job of clarifying this as I am already seeing replies pile up as this is being typed.

 

[pes]

The rule will not change.

I know it falls under forcing, but clearly it is not clear and if the opinion is so strongly against baiting within the mod stuff, we could add that baiting videos will be removed to the list.

 

[shortbutfast]

Doesn't the same argument apply to peanut butter? A dogs nose would know everything that is in what they are about to lick. Why can't they make informed consent based on what their nose tells them to the current situation?

Arguments that talk about something "extra" that is special to sex when it comes to consent reminds me strongly of the arguments antis make. They believe that a dog cannot consent based on his own reasoning and experience to a situation.

the dog is not aware that you have your own motivation of sexual gratification. The dog isnt using critical thought to decide whether or not to be sexually interested in a human partner, nor is it using critical thought to decide to lick peanut butter. the decision is still the decision, and one of those two options does not include a dog being sexually interested in a human partner. it only includes a dog liking peanut butter.

 

[shortbutfast]

Eh, I can count on my hand the number of people who have shown the knowledge that I do when it comes to helping people here.

There has to be a standard to what makes an experienced community member beyond "I disgree with him".

not to be petty here as i think the topic is very important, but thus far your standard for an experienced community member seems to be just you, rather than mods with 15 times the messages here than you

 

[shortbutfast]

This way of thinking is a relic from BeastForum's past that can be retired. If the community agrees to support whatever the authority structure here decides, I will talk to the site owners in that case.

...are you 'i need to talk to your manager'ing a zoophilia forum?

 

[Goattobeloved]

I know some may not like it, but if you let a dog lick peanut butter off your fingers or any other body part i dont think the dog really cares if one has to look at it logically, I dont think a dog is really thinking to much of it wether its licking a finger or something else, most likely the dog are only thinking that the peaunt butter is tasty and not much else, but I guess its all up to the person how they feel about it, one should just remember that a dog is a dog and it thinks like a dog, dogs will lick at anything they find that smells like food etc, ive seen my dog eat its own poop, so to think it cares about licking peanutbutter off a penis is maybe abit overthinking things wags

Yes, the dog is probably fine with it.
I would not have a problem if you are curious and try once, but...

In a zoo's site. Is it something that talks of loving the animal?

I mean... For those who enjoy lady being pleased it *might* be porn, but for those who enjoy the animal pleasure... it is just a dog eating something tasty. Not porn imo, so no much sense keeping them there.

 

[shortbutfast]

Of course lol. Why would a particular mod be talking with absolute authority on this, especially since it seems like community support doesn't matter to him. Anyway I need to stop talking about this because the thread is supposed to be about the baiting poll. Thanks for giving your thoughts so far.

17 others have given their thoughts thus far via said poll, and the early small sample size numbers certainly suggest community sentiment in line with this 'one mod' who has repeatedly stated that the opinions he's voicing are held by moderation all the way up to the admins. A second mod then confirmed this. I'm not sure what you're reading tbh.

 

[Deleted member 76481]

Thank god for having good mods here that actually do care about animals and their consent

…but the people are retarded (explanation in description)

Hi there! I am glad that we both enjoy Osho quotes. In order to preserve the historical and comedic value of the clip, I refrained from adding commentary to ...

www.youtube.com

 

[pes]

If after a few days the numbers are against me

You have to consider what I have pointed out several times in this thread and other threads. Lets hope the mod team is aware of that. Numbers here after a while will reflect the fetishistic majority of users instead of the opinion of zoophiles.

This is a zoo forum and preserving the animal's choice is more important, than what the fetishistic majority that does not care about animals wants to see.

 

[Keepinitlowkey]

Sorry if this is a repeat comment, but I had to skip many of them for various reasons. The way I see it, is it’s more like a treat. If a girl was to smear peanut butter or something on herself, my dog would be in his glory!! It’s just a treat to him. And yes I understand that it could be considered forced to a point, but what’s training then? You can train a dog to listen with treats, is that forcing them to learn? What if they used this as a pup, and now the dog just eats pussy on command, just as it would learn to sit and stay. Dogs love to please also.
I’m not saying any of this expecting the rules to change either, as I understand why they are there, just stating my view on things. Sort of like a whip cream bikini on a girl I guess. licking/eating things off of each other is great, as long as she does the laundry haha

 

[Schuppentier]

So far, the vote is pretty clear, and I agree with the current vote.

I agree, that it is a minor thing, I would not consider it as bad as restraining or drugging animals for sex. Still it exploits a non sexual habit of the dog with gaining one-sided sexual satisfaction for the human. So it should not be encouraged.

 

[Deleted member 76481]

Sorry if this is a repeat comment, but I had to skip many of them for various reasons. The way I see it, is it’s more like a treat. If a girl was to smear peanut butter or something on herself, my dog would be in his glory!! It’s just a treat to him. And yes I understand that it could be considered forced to a point, but what’s training then? You can train a dog to listen with treats, is that forcing them to learn? What if they used this as a pup, and now the dog just eats pussy on command, just as it would learn to sit and stay. Dogs love to please also.
I’m not saying any of this expecting the rules to change either, as I understand why they are there, just stating my view on things. Sort of like a whip cream bikini on a girl I guess. licking/eating things off of each other is great, as long as she does the laundry haha

The difference is huge. Teaching your dog basic commands is a necessity for both their and your safety.

Using bait for this has only purpose, to make dog do something it wouldn't do by themselves. In consensual sexual activities with animals, you shouldn't need any treats in the first place. If said animal doesn't want to engage and you need to use some bait, it stops being consensual and starts being forced. End of story.

 

[pes]

who is the audience for a thread with a stated goal and list of strong opinions?

It is more of an educational thread than something I would use to gather positive feedback.
1. It connects users to actual animal abuse publicly when something really disgusting is found making them unable to wiggle out of it.
2. It provides a history of what has been reported, why and what the resolution was. Which makes future reports of the same stuff easier.
3. It serves as an education tool for those who did not know what is abusive or want to know what to report.
And so on.

 

[shortbutfast]

I agree there are skews to consider and the one you presented is real. There are also others. For example, this proposed rule has been enforced already. People who disagree with it have been alienated over a long time. People who disagree with ZV mods opinions overall are way more likely to not stick around or pay attention to community-oriented sections like where this thread is than people who do. That would skew the votes from people who are still here to agree with whatever the long-term status quo is regardless of merit. Particularly those with high post counts. I suggested merit based restrictions as a possibility knowing this.

About your cleanup thread: who is the audience for a thread with a stated goal and list of strong opinions? It would be people who already agree with those opinions. In my experience, most people take the path of least resistance. Taking an opposing view in a thread like that is a good way to be harassed and hated and who wants to deal with that.

not to speak for the mods but im pretty sure thats the desired outcome of mods being vocal about the ethics of zoophilia. This is a forum for zoophiles, and if enforcing rules that always put the animal before the sex causes people to leave... then good?