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In the US, we'll have to fight it in the courts

While I deeply believe that inroads will be made toward legitimizing zoosexuality, without question it will take at least many decades.

As for human beings existing as a product of evolution, I have to disagree. Humans are not animals, but it is that fact that makes our identities as zoophiles so profound.
 
UniqueAmerican said:
While I deeply believe that inroads will be made toward legitimizing zoosexuality, without question it will take at least many decades.

As for human beings existing as a product of evolution, I have to disagree. Humans are not animals, but it is that fact that makes our identities as zoophiles so profound.
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I don't know what you're talking about. Of course humans evolved from other animal species. And humans are animals -- which is why, when a human has sex with a dog, it is just one animal having sex with another animal.
 
The Supreme Court isn't going to listen to us. I don't blame them, tbh. The entire zoo community is backwards. I'm starting to think there is no hope for us.
 
@Zoo50

Right now, look around you on Zooville. Look at the sense of fear and hopelessness and despair that is weighing down our community and probably the entire zooey community.

We need something deeper to happen than just a change in the laws. Those are just a slap in the face, and any of us with any education know they are barely enforceable nonsense in the real world of law enforcement. What should be more alarming to you, I think, should be the state that our community has been in, lately. There is such anger and distrust in our community, and negative people that are promoting shame and hiding seem to have more of a voice than positive people that believe we ought to have pride and hope. The Apostles of Cowardice reigned supreme on Beast Forum, and they drove their bleating and lowing flocks and herds of craven cowards into hiding and secrecy. When these laws entered discussion, where the previous status was that most people said, "wait, I know a pet-fucker, and while I think it's gross, he's not really like that," the poor yokels, in their ignorance, got taken in by all of the anti-zooey rhetoric. We need someone who can bring a sense of positivity and hope and courage back into the zooey community itself.

I am going to be trying to focus my blog on positive messages to the zooey community and the pursuit of friendship. I am not going to focus chiefly on talking about strategy for changing the world. I am going to focus more on the pursuit of community and trust and also maybe discuss some of my sociological and historical views.

The hardest people to teach someone to love is themselves, but the wild thing is that, once you've taught them to love themselves, everyone they know follows suit and learns to also love them. That is the weird thing about pride. If you take pride in yourself, the world follows suit and eventually feels proud to know you.
 
SigmatoZeta said:
@Zoo50

Right now, look around you on Zooville. Look at the sense of fear and hopelessness and despair that is weighing down our community and probably the entire zooey community.
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For good reason, because there is no hope of ever attaining any zoo rights. There are no existing avenues or support for such a concept. So going on and on about something that will never happen, shows real obtuseness on your part.
 
silkythighs said:
For good reason, because there is no hope of ever attaining any zoo rights. There are no existing avenues or support for such a concept. So going on and on about something that will never happen, shows real obtuseness on your part.
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Once more with feeling, @SigmatoZeta : The only "zoo community" that has ever existed did so ONLY in the minds of "We gotta fight for zoo rights" loony-tunes like you. Out here in the real world, there is no such thing as a "zoo community", and never has been. This "community" you're so obsessed with is a product of your fevered imagination. Face that fact, and you've got a chance at coming acros as somethign more than a deranged, obsessive idiot. Until then, you'l continue to be discounted as the nutcase you're demonstrating yourself to be.
 
@Zoo50, please go ahead and start that blog. I am going to be doing one on this site. I think that this is a great place for a blog about zooness. Someone that is interested in what zoo is will look on this site first. This is where someone that is already curious is going to look. I think the best people to reach out to are people that have already opened their minds enough to look us up.

If you want me to proofread anything for you or give you some feedback first before you post it, then please run it by me. Run it by people on here like @ZTHorse or @dogluver101, too. Learn how to take mentorship and feedback. You can lean on us. We are behind you.

Maybe you could make the blog about testing your ability to reach out to and talk to non-zoos at non-zooey venues. Make it really honest. Admit to your failures, but also talk about cases where you have felt that you were successful. Use the blog to review very honestly how you feel about how you approached a situation, and give yourself some constructive feedback.

Say what you feel you did well, say what you feel you could have done better, and set a goal for your next engagement. Use that formula. It is similar to the Toastmasters International formula for evaluation. Every time you approach non-zoos and try to talk to them about your zooness, write a blog entry. Use that formula or a similar formula, and I guarantee that you would have yourself a good blog that people really want to read.

Or if you have any completely different ideas, then run them by your allies, on here.
 
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hippophile said:
The whole "blog" idea has already been tried. Numerous times. They all failed to make a difference.
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That others have tried and failed is not a valid reason to not attempt an undertaking. Imagine where we would be if people did such, we'd still be bashing rocks together as our most advanced tools, having seen others attempt otherwise and fail. IMO, one of the best advantages to writing about a topic is that it forces you to think and hopefully develop clearer thoughts on the subject.

I don't think they will change many minds, if any at all, but still I think the endeavor worth trying for one's own benefit if nothing else.
 
@egoldston, that is exactly why I keep a sketch diary. I don't know for sure if I will ever produce any artwork that I could hang in a gallery, and that's not really the reason why I do it. I do it because I know that it is good for me. I have produced something almost every single day since December 17, 2018. The first person that I am doing this for is for me.

I disagree with the view that outreach efforts have failed or not been worth doing.

As I keep saying, the Apostles of Cowardice drove a lot of zoos into the closet that previously were pretty open with their friends in otherwise sex-positive communities. They abused, trolled, shamed, and demonized anyone that was open about their sexuality. Their campaign to silence and shame as many zoos as they could, with the intention of keeping the zooey community from being noticed, was highly organized. That imbecility is what failed.

The Apostles of Cowardice declared, "we are not like the gays, so it is vitally imperative that we do precisely the opposite of what the gays did! Everybody hide!" and with banners flying and with drums beating, they marched us backwards, through the glorious ages of that Sixteenth Century when bigots burned the man who dared to bring enlightenment and intelligence to the human mind.

Meanwhile, here is what the gay people were doing:


We could always try doing what works instead of doing precisely the opposite of what works.

We should be treating zoos that successfully come out to their families and communities as heroes.
 
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SigmatoZeta said:
Meanwhile, here is what the gay people were doing:

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Being gay has nothing to do be being a zoo. Once again, the only accepted sex in society is that between consenting adults. Being gay doesn't give them any more or less of a right to sexual expression as straight people. That is what gays have always been fighting for. To be able to openly express their sexuality, same as heterosexuals.
 
hippophile said:
And I thought I was crazy...
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Balderdash. That scene from Inherit the Wind (1960) was one of finest monents of 20th Century cinema, and it made a memorable film out of what otherwise would have constituted a somewhat better than mediocre docudrama. The film's message is still relevant.

It is morally imperative that all decent zoos rise up against those that would silence us. As long as decent and enlightened human beings remain silent, ignorance will spread like cancer.

It is madness to ever assume that the voices of ignorance will vanish when those that are enlightened enough to know better fall silent. It is madness to assume we will ever have peace if we do not stand up and proclaim bravely that peace is our right.

This was relevant 59 years ago, and it is relevant today.
 
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silkythighs said:
Dogs have no legal standing, so calling a dog and adult is irrelevant. MY dog wanted it, is not a legal defense.
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Whatever. I don't need a legal defense because I'm not being charged with anything, and couldn't care less about what you have to say here. :sleep:
 
silkythighs said:
Being gay has nothing to do be being a zoo. Once again, the only accepted sex in society is that between consenting adults. Being gay doesn't give them any more or less of a right to sexual expression as straight people. That is what gays have always been fighting for. To be able to openly express their sexuality, same as heterosexuals.
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i always thought it was mostly for legal reasons. Not being able to marry, tax reasons, and so forth
 
IHO said:
Whatever. I don't need a legal defense because I'm not being charged with anything, and couldn't care less about what you have to say here. :sleep:
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The biggest issue is that we have no defense. We can't simply argue we were in the right. There needs to be some sort of legaly recognized proof we are in the right. No amount of claims made by zigma that we are in the right matters to any judge. Everything must be proof. Claiming the dog enjoyed it or initiated it is not legal proof by us simply saying we are right and they are wrong. It must be proven. We must have legally recognized facts or else it is just hearsay.
 
silkythighs said:
Dogs have no legal standing, so calling a dog and adult is irrelevant. MY dog wanted it, is not a legal defense.
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I have to agree with this. You can't call a dog to testify in a case, for example. Non-human animals have no legal standing. This fact alone makes it much more difficult for lawmakers to consider legalizing bestiality.
 
hippophile said:
I have to agree with this. You can't call a dog to testify in a case, for example. Non-human animals have no legal standing. This fact alone makes it much more difficult for lawmakers to consider legalizing bestiality.
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Yeah, Zoo's expect people and courts to simply accept their word that the animal wanted it or was asking for it. Animal lovers and animal rights groups would never accept that.
 
IHO said:
Whatever. I don't need a legal defense because I'm not being charged with anything, and couldn't care less about what you have to say here. :sleep:
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Exactly which is why "comming out" and looking for "zoo rights" is stupid. You'd only get a criminal record, and never be allowed to have another animal again.
 
The MAIN issue is animals do not have rights. Until they do their is no legal grounds to stand on and fight. Fuck zoo rights. We need animals to have some basic rights.
 
@IHO as I keep reminding everybody, gay sex could still be prosecuted as a felony in my state when I became legally an adult. I broke the Hell out of that law, and for a couple of years, I was actually very open about it.

And then Lawrence v. Texas came and ruined my zany fun. I actually felt less excited over staying out after that. When there was a sense of danger associated with it, no matter how illusory, it was so much fun to tell people. These days, it just feels pedestrian.

You change the law by changing society in spite of the law, full stop.
 
The PACT act has done, and will do, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER to help animals. It's another piece of the usual feel-good, do-nothing legislation that the imbeciles we elect to the legislature pump out constantly. It's a show piece. Nothing more, nothing less. Despite what it might say on the summary sheet about its purpose, the reality is that its TRUE purpose is to say "Yep, we're working for you here in Congress! Earning every penny we get from you, Joe Taxpayer, by busting our asses to make laws that look good on paper, but mean next to nothing in the real world. Want proof? Just look! We passed the PACT act! See what great things we've done?"

Reality: The PACT act will have ALMOST as much impact on the welfare of actual, living, eating, breathing, shitting animals as passing a law banning hurricanes would to prevent flooding, damage, and death in Florida and the other "hurricane target zones" of the southeast.
 
arcticwolf69 said:
The biggest issue is that we have no defense. We can't simply argue we were in the right. There needs to be some sort of legaly recognized proof we are in the right. No amount of claims made by zigma that we are in the right matters to any judge. Everything must be proof. Claiming the dog enjoyed it or initiated it is not legal proof by us simply saying we are right and they are wrong. It must be proven. We must have legally recognized facts or else it is just hearsay.
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There's no proof that what the anti-zoos are saying (that sex with animals is "abuse") is true -- yet it was accepted by at least one court. I think the issue isn't so much "proof", it is reasoning / arguments.

arcticwolf69 said:
The MAIN issue is animals do not have rights. Until they do their is no legal grounds to stand on and fight. Fuck zoo rights. We need animals to have some basic rights.
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Animals do have rights -- they just aren't legally recognized by society. The same is true of zoo rights -- zoos do have a right to have sex with animals, but that right is not currently (legally) recognized.
 
arcticwolf69 said:
The biggest issue is that we have no defense. We can't simply argue we were in the right. There needs to be some sort of legaly recognized proof we are in the right. No amount of claims made by zigma that we are in the right matters to any judge. Everything must be proof. Claiming the dog enjoyed it or initiated it is not legal proof by us simply saying we are right and they are wrong. It must be proven. We must have legally recognized facts or else it is just hearsay.
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You, sir, are full of shit like a Xmas turkey. Have you never heard the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"? The only party needing proof is the one doing the accusing.
 
silkythighs said:
Exactly which is why "comming out" and looking for "zoo rights" is stupid. You'd only get a criminal record, and never be allowed to have another animal again.
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Honestly, I'm not sure if you're playing Devil's advocate here, or just a big douche. But as an otherwise law-abiding citizen, any bigot-lobbied, hypocritical, opinion/belief-based laws are not going to stop me from being myself.
An it harm none, do what thou wilt
If the chance to be in an amazing cross-species relationship ever comes my way again I will go with it, and I will keep it safe from persecution. Disingenuous, oppressive people will not stand in my way of having some joy in life.
 
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IHO said:
Honestly, I'm not sure if you're playing Devil's advocate here, or just a big douche. But as an otherwise law-abiding citizen, any bigot-lobbied, hypocritical, opinion/belief-based laws are not going to stop me from being myself.
An it harm none, do what thou wilt
If the chance to be in an amazing cross-species relationship ever comes my way again I will go with it, and I will keep it safe from persecution. Disingenuous, oppressive people will not stand in my way of having some joy in life.
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Do you know what thread your in? We've all ignored and disobeyed laws concerning bestiality. But if you do so publicly, or are outed in some way. That's when your problems start.
 
caikgoch said:
You, sir, are full of shit like a Xmas turkey. Have you never heard the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"? The only party needing proof is the one doing the accusing.
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Once again, you missed the point. Naturally if someone "accuses" you of some crime, evidence is needed that proves the allegation. But if you admit to, or it's proven that you commented bestiality. Claiming the animal wanted it, is not a defense.
 
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