Confusing/Conflicting Info on Spay/Neuter

[knotinterested]

@knotinterested
Thank you for your answer and sorry about the "bigger"-question. I originally meant "taller", I oftentimes forget that it means "bigger in weight" in English, but you answered the question underneath that one anyway.



I've also known of people who had spayed females that developed that type of fur. It seems to occur in both sexes. (I did not know that it happens to male dogs also tho)

Yes actually I only knew of it in male dogs so I guess you always learn something when you least suspect.

Something I would really love to be able to find is reports or studies in diet/activities/life longevity. Things like the oldest living dogs, what were they eating, how active were they, and how long they lived. If we could find relationships in those areas we might actually be able to help or animal friends live longer. They have such short lives and even if only another 2 or 3 years it would be so very special.

 

[Maui69]

vet student here

Males:
Procedure is done by emergency (criptorquidismo [testicles don't leave the abdominal cavity as they should]) or by option.
Reduces prostate cancer, aggressiveness, dominance, and usually (but not always) the need to mark territories.
Prostates can become tumorous with age but doesn't turn cancerous. Can still ejaculate just not semen and their sex drive drops sharply.

Two preffered methods in Argentina:

Cutting laterally of the penis shaft, pushing the testicles out the hole, prevent bloodflow and the deferent conduct, cut the testicles, cauterize blood vessels and the now obsolete deferent conduct, cauterize the wound, stitch. Quick, easy, scrotum stays intact. (Usually done on young dogs)

Cutting the scrotum, cutting bloodflow and deferent conduct, cutting the testicles and the scrotum, cauterize, stitch. (Usually done on older dogs where surgery can be dangerous)

Females:
Procedure done by emergency (removing ovaries and uterus) caused by castrate in a c-section or pyometra (open or closed)
Here they just remove the ovaries. The uterus on customer demand or by medical cause.

Removes ovary cancer probability (how can you have ovarian cancer if you don't have the ovaries?), raises testosterone levels in the female (because there's nothing keeping it low anymore, causing aggressiveness, tendency to mark territory, and (although somewhat rare but seen) fight with males). No cycles, mood is kept somewhat stable for the rest of her life. The female does tend to gain weight with the same lifestyle as an intact counterpart.

Cutting the left flank, removing the left ovary and its ligaments except one which connects both ovaries. With that ligament, you pull the right ovary to the left side, cut bloodflow and tie the uterine ducts, cut both ovaries free, cauterize, stitch the star pattern on the abdominal flank.

 

[Datkat]

Nutritionist and natural care adviser here.

In my opinion and based on most of my research, i live in a 3rd world country. Spaying and neutering is required IF you as an owner aren't going to/ can't commit on managing and containing you're pets when females are in season or males that want to roam or mark territory,along with other behavioral and hormonal problems that come with intact pets.

If you can and are willing to, best bet in order to preserve health and avoid Future issues regarding early desexing, is for big dog breeds wait til 2 yrs of age. For small breeds wait til one year. At this time growth plates have completed closure and your dog is no longer growing mentally or physically. At 3 years in any breed there are little or no risk associated with desexing. They are minor or have little impact.

On cats, spay and neuter at 5/6 months of age. In felines there's been no documented I'll effects of early spay/ neuter. It's actually better for them.

Id you have males, you can manage them with training and offer a hand .
Same for females.

Separate males from females ASAP you see the earliest indication of heat. This means until bits over they can't see or smell each other. Crating and limiting spaces. Makes can't smell anywhere she so much as sat down in. They go on walks prior to the girls EVERY TIME and no sniffing through doors.

IT WORKS. The problem are the pheromones from the vulva,as soon as makes get a whiff of her urine,fluids or genitals,game over. Id they don't, they will acknowledge the presence of one but won't know it's in the home. Just as if she was away with a friend, which is also an option.

If you have a pair or want some sort of peace of mind, Do Ovary Sparing Spay or Vasectomy. Preserves hormones ultil growth is complete, but they can't produce off spring. In males it can be Reverted if you decide to breed (responsibly).

If you must neuter or spay early wait til 6 months and supplement with supplements for glandular support like Mercola's that will supply the missing hormones to fuel correct skeletal and muscular development. It won't cause season or sexual hormone related behaviours.

That's all i have to offer. Hope it helps. I did management for 4 years with males and a female with no issues.

Personally y keep males intact. Because most of they're hormone related problems are behavioral and can be modified, neutering only has a 50% chance of decreasing them.

 

[SilverServal]

While I feel there's been some good resources offered, it's becoming distressingly clear just how aggressive the majority of this server seems to be, and honestly, I'm not sure how to trust much of any of it anymore.

 

[kuchen]

That as you call it BS comes from 1999 - 2012, which is 30 years to 42 years after what you stated and originated by the Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital in Madison WI and has been repeated by Texas A&M College of Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences and by UC-Davis.

Interesting limiting yourself to 2012... you may need to update your reading material! in case you (or anyone else) is interested here is an up to date literature review from the "Dog Aging Project" on the subject. It's really an interesting read and covers both sides reasonably well.
"Desexing Dogs: A Review of the Current Literature" ( mdpi.com/2076-2615/9/12/1086/htm )

One sentence I want to put particular attention towards:
"there are no non-reproductive tumors that show a risk decrease following desexing in dogs"
I don't know which study you were referencing when you claimed that other cancers decreased as well but that sort of result appears to be the exception and not the rule.

 

[knotinterested]

Interesting limiting yourself to 2012... you may need to update your reading material! in case you (or anyone else) is interested here is an up to date literature review from the "Dog Aging Project" on the subject. It's really an interesting read and covers both sides reasonably well.
"Desexing Dogs: A Review of the Current Literature" ( mdpi.com/2076-2615/9/12/1086/htm )

One sentence I want to put particular attention towards:
"there are no non-reproductive tumors that show a risk decrease following desexing in dogs"
I don't know which study you were referencing when you claimed that other cancers decreased as well but that sort of result appears to be the exception and not the rule.

Your reference to material of 2012 was in answer to a statement made by another member. I can assure you that the material we go through in our veterinarian program is very much up to date. If you are a veterinarian student as I am, then you more than most should understand that old research as well as new research is studied and reviewed with long discussions in an effort to understand their validity.

BTW the paper you referenced says a lot of the same thing that I have been saying herein; This is from your paper referenced summary.

Desexing has consistently been shown to change various health risks, including a reduction in pyometra and mammary tumor risk, as well as an increased risk of cranial cruciate ligament rupture, several forms of cancer, and obesity in both sexes. Other health effects vary considerably between breeds and sexes. A lifespan advantage in desexed dogs has consistently been shown in females, while the evidence is inconsistent in males, and the effect is smaller in studies that found one.

Note: There has been a battle of opinion as to an increase of other types of cancers formed due to a lack of hormones. Both sides have valid arguments on this issue but the verdict is at present still under consideration.

However the veterinarian community is moving away from total organ removal and instead is pushing for sterilization techniques that preserve normal endocrine function. From my education in veterinarian care I believe that there is a purpose for each organ and that organ systems are interdependent. I believe that removing any organ and certainly organs of the reproductive system will eventually have health consequences. The sterilization techniques I speak of leave the hormone producing organs in place and operating as normal but the animal is unable to reproduce. At this time it is believed that this will alleviate the long term effects that have been caused by spay or neutering. Further research will determine what if anything is to be done in order to curve the risk of pyometra or mammary tumors. This at present is the only anticipated downside to these new techniques.

 

[Doggyluv]

Canine Vasectomies – Spot Speaks

Golden Retriever Labrador, German Shepherd Vizsla, Rottweiler spay neuter — Spay/Neuter Advice

Breed-specific spay neuter research in Rottweilers, German Shepherds, Labradors, Golden Retrievers, and Vizslas. The research articles are summarized and live links are provided. spayed

www.spayneuteradvice.com

 

[Doggyluv]

Article I found on pyometra

 

[QuantumHusky]

Absolutely agree with Wolfy on the current research.

There are increasing number of peer-reviewed research showing that desexing at a young age can be linked to increased risk of some metabolic disorders, urinary incontinence in females, joint and bone problems, increasing risk of certain cancers, increasing risk of anxiety related behavioural issues due to the lack/imbalance of sexual hormones.

You can try and find a vet that is willing to perform a hysterectomy (Ovary sparing spay) or vasectomy for males. That way you can still preserve the hormonal balance in the body and still sterilise your pet. However, you still run the risk of ovarian and mammary tumours in older bitches, prostate and testicular issues in older males.

I agree that it is still your personally responsibility to manage your own pets at home and outside since you are the owner of the dog. No one else is gonna care for your pet the same as you would. It is common sense that intact bitches in-season must be kept away from intact male dogs or other bitches to prevent fights or pregnancies.

I dont understand why people think spaying is a good idea. I keep telling people this but its like people dont want to bother with taking care of their dog and it pisses me off.

 

[Doggyluv]

I dont understand why people think spaying is a good idea. I keep telling people this but its like people dont want to bother with taking care of their dog and it pisses me off.

I couldn't agree more. Spaying and neutering should not even exist. If people could be responsible, take care of and watch their dogs and of course not breed for profit no one would need to alter dogs. If someone does have a dog they let roam the neighborhood or county get them a vasectomy. Why is mutilation the number one option

 

[Maui69]

Spays and neuters must be done when there's a health risk. Otherwise, stop being a lazy cunt and look over your dog while she's in heat or he's unbearably horny and wants to go out.

I am against spaying and neutering because the owner can't take the responsibility of looking over their dogs but I'm also against not spaying and neutering if there's a health risk that gets nullified or lowered drastically by the procedure.

 

[Red-dobie]

ovary sparing spays, yrs ago my girl friend had her wolf/husky mix spayed and ended up having bladder issues.​

 

[Bigspot]

Did not read the post at all but I am in the pet community in other places (not in the zoo way) and spay and neuter is conflicting for all!

Things are more likely with intact animals including certain cancers and diseases. You will need to be willing to take that chance or not.

It's not horrible to allow animals to be intact. In fact hormones are good to stimulate mental and physical growth usually until they are more developed/fully developed at age 2(for smaller dogs) while some larger breeds take much longer!

Castration can be a blessing
(longevity) (lesser likelihood of certain specific cancers in diseases or removes them entirely depending)
While it can quite possibly take away the dogs muscle mass, fur quality, etc.

It's a very personal choice. Just make sure you have the steps in place to take care of your pet if health issues arise.

Have a good vet. Do your research on your BREEDS or mixes (what breeds they have) and what health issues may or may not be common. Anywho bye

 

[Anonygoose]

The cancer argument never sat right with me. Getting animals fixed is absolutely appropriate for most situations, but saying "if you remove these organs, they won't develop X cancer" is silly. Like...yea no shit. The organs are gone. It always seemed to minimize the impact losing them has on animals.

 

[milabue]

stop being a lazy cunt and look over your dog while she's in heat

I have more than once seen pens and such that seemed inpenetrable. Turns out they were penetrable, and so was the bitch. They were honest attempts to keep a female intact without making unwanted puppies.

I just don't know. Surely situations are different.