Confusing/Conflicting Info on Spay/Neuter

This... Many, many times this.

But it's not likely to happen.

It's just another manifestation of the whole concept of "Doesn't matter what "it" is, I want it, I want it *NOW*, and I don't want to hear about needing to make any effort for it. I want a magic button I can push to make whatever I desire come to pass, and to hell with working at it even a little!" that I first noticed starting to take over here in America around 25-30 years ago (though I suspect it's probably been going on even longer), and has been getting steadily worse.

Prime example:
Liposuction.
Problem: "I'm turning into a disgusting blob of fat. FIX IT!"
Common sense solution: Put down the ding-dongs and doritos and the 2 liter of pepsi, turn off the TV, pick your lard-ass up off the couch, and get some exercise.
Typical American's response: "Fuck that, I wanna stay right here on the couch watching Oprah, gnoshing my doritos, packing in the twinkies and moon-pies, and washing the whole mess down with as much pepsi as I can pour into my face, and I wanna be thin again! NOW! Make it happen!"

Same thing as far as keeping a dog/cat from getting pregnant/causing a pregnancy - "I don't want to be bothered with training it, or keeping it supervised, I want an instant, no-effort fix - cut part of her guts out/lop his balls off and be done with it already!" Aided and abetted by the vet industry, which absolutely adores the quick and easy money from a little-or-no-effort surgery.
I'm sure that this is your opinion and while you are generally correct concerning the attitude of many people throughout the world, not only Americans, you are incorrect about these procedures being a little-or-no-effort surgery.

Every surgery requires proper preparation prior to the procedure and then total concentration during the surgery for a safe and successful outcome. Most animals will remain in veterinary care from the day before the surgery until the day following the surgery in order for the veterinarian to monitor the animal in case of any complications. This is more than the "quick and easy money" you seem to think the veterinarian is gaining.
 
How about you calm down? Lockdown making you a bit tetchy perhaps?
yea that american allright - loud mouthed and goes sideways or retard if there is any criticism

you think this is stupid? - how about research non US internet sources about spay/neuter before posting
 
Prime example:
Liposuction.
Problem: "I'm turning into a disgusting blob of fat. FIX IT!"
Common sense solution: Put down the ding-dongs and doritos and the 2 liter of pepsi, turn off the TV, pick your lard-ass up off the couch, and get some exercise.
Typical American's response: "Fuck that, I wanna stay right here on the couch watching Oprah, gnoshing my doritos, packing in the twinkies and moon-pies, and washing the whole mess down with as much pepsi as I can pour into my face, and I wanna be thin again! NOW! Make it happen!"

Unrelated: If losing weight were that easy, obesity wouldn't be an epidemic in itself in western societies and we would have the magic solution now. The body is a complex set of mechanisms that are largely outside of your influence.

The decision to neuter or spay your dog on the other hand is an easy one with no hormonal balances or base needs requiring you to make decisions on the fly every 5-6 hours per day.

You are massively undermining the simplicity of stopping bad neutering practices by comparing it something as complex as something as weight management.
 
Six months is the minimum age a puppy can undergo surgery safely in terms of being safe for the anesthesia.

I have 2 female German Shepherds that just recently were spayed at six months of age and they are doing fine. Their surgery was 2 months ago. I also have 1 female German Shepherd that was spayed in the same manner and she will be 7 years of age in July, and has had no medical issues.
So there's no real reason to spay that young.
Well, you do whatever you think is considered good for your dogs.

I'm glad to live in a country where this is not normal tho.
6 months....... It's infuriating.
 
So there's no real reason to spay that young.
Well, you do whatever you think is considered good for your dogs.

I'm glad to live in a country where this is not normal tho.
6 months....... It's infuriating.
The reason to spay at a young age is it is considered safer to spay before the first estrus cycle prior to any hormone influence. Six months is due to that being the soonest a young dog can safely handle anesthesia.
 
The reason to spay at a young age is it is considered safer to spay before the first estrus cycle prior to any hormone influence. Six months is due to that being the soonest a young dog can safely handle anesthesia.
Why is it safer?
The hormones are there for a reason. It's not only for reproduction purposes. Growth and mental development also play a role.
Imagine spaying a girl bevore puperty.
I guess you can't really compare a dog spayed at the age of six months to an unspayed or later spayed dog, since all your females have been spayed that young, in terms of behaviour.
 
What do you think would happen to a top school if after it's students have spent almost $250,000.00 US Dollars on their education, if the graduates found out that what they had been taught was a bunch of untrue facts?
Literally nothing, because your entire country is a shithole together with it's dumb education system that puts most people into a lifetime debt.


The reason to spay at a young age is it is considered safer to spay before the first estrus cycle prior to any hormone influence. Six months is due to that being the soonest a young dog can safely handle anesthesia.

I like how you ignore any of the research saying otherwise. When humans have a deficiency of hormones in their puberty, they end up with a lot of issues later on and we try prevent with any means. So you think other species don't need those hormones to live a healthy life?

Sure go on and spread your shitty propaganda, good luck finding anyone with a few braincells who'll believe you.
 
In the US and everywhere else, Female dogs can not become pregnant until they are in heat and depending on breed their first heat will occur between 8 months to 1year 4 months of age.
I have never heard of anyone being able to train the instincts out of an animal and if given a chance nature will usually take it's course.
When I last googled, bitch's can first go into estrus around 6 months and the dogs can be ready to breed around the same time, particularly true with smaller breeds. However, it is recommended that responsible breeders wait until around 18 months for males and 14 months for females.
And as for training, it is very possible to train out some habits. It's why working Border Collies don't go skidding after sheep at every opportunity; they've been trained to do it on command. And why many bull terrier breeds are able to happily coexist without aggression; their needs in enrichment and excersize are being met. The drive to seek out fertile partners may be a little trickier to deal with, but I circle back around to my argument that "if these dumb fucks would just supervise their dogs half this shit wouldn't be a problem."
 
Unrelated: If losing weight were that easy, obesity wouldn't be an epidemic in itself in western societies and we would have the magic solution now. The body is a complex set of mechanisms that are largely outside of your influence.

The decision to neuter or spay your dog on the other hand is an easy one with no hormonal balances or base needs requiring you to make decisions on the fly every 5-6 hours per day.

You are massively undermining the simplicity of stopping bad neutering practices by comparing it something as complex as something as weight management.

Only one word works here:

WHOOOOOSSSSHHHH!!!!!

You TOTALLY missed the point I was making. Hell, you didn't even visit the same continent it was on!

What was that point? Let's try again: Americans in general want the "no effort, no thought, no inconvenience" cure for everything. If it requires thought, effort, or inconvenience - ESPECIALLY inconvenience or effort - it's ignored as a possibility in favor of the no thought, no effort fix.

Hence, the comparison:
I'm too fat. Forget eating less, and god forbid I should get off my ass and go to the gym or take up jogging, or otherwise get some exercise. That's too much like work! I'll just go get liposuction. Presto! Instant no-effort fix, and most especially, I don't need to think about the fact that I'm a fat slob because I'm eating too much garbage food, and too fucking lazy to put down my bag of doritos, get off the couch, and walk to the TV set to change the channel.

Same thing applies to the spay/neuter thing:

My dog might get (or make another's dog) pregnant. Instead of the common sense (which I keep forgetting isn't all that common anymore... mea culpa) of supervision, training, installing a proper dog-proof fence, or any of a dozen other options, the go-to is the quick, no thought, no effort fix: Chop his balls off/carve part of her guts out!
 
Literally nothing, because your entire country is a shithole together with it's dumb education system that puts most people into a lifetime debt.
Yo, chill dude. Don't go bashing a whole country you don't even live in.
have never heard of anyone being able to train the instincts out of an animal and if given a chance nature will usually take it's course
No, you're right. There's no way to train that out of a dog, but this is no reason to spay or neuter. There are people who keep both, intact male and females in the same household without ever having puppies.
That's because those people manage those two times of the year, when a female is receptive.
There are even people who keep multiple males and females together without having the males fight with each other or impregnate the females.

So... I don't really see a reason taking a healthy dog and removing healthy organs just for the heck of it. Just because it's "easier", or just because you don't want to deal with a few drops of blood now and then.
I also see no medical reason, that would make a healthy dog benefit from being spayed.
 
Yo, chill dude. Don't go bashing a whole country you don't even live in.
I don't want to get into politics in this thread, but I don't have to live in a country to know it's shit. You agree that a lifetime debt because of education or a trip to the hospital is normal? Or just look at the way the government is handling the entire coronavirus crisis in USA right now.
 
I don't want to get into politics in this thread, but I don't have to live in a country to know it's shit. You agree that a lifetime debt because of education or a trip to the hospital is normal? Or just look at the way the government is handling the entire coronavirus crisis in USA right now.
Yeah, with that reasoning, every single country in this world is bad.
 
Literally nothing, because your entire country is a shithole together with it's dumb education system that puts most people into a lifetime debt.

Sure go on and spread your shitty propaganda, good luck finding anyone with a few braincells who'll believe you.
I think I've found someone with very few brain cells, @agoodboye but what do I know - I come from what you describe as a "shithole" country. And what do you know about anything? You speak rather unintelligently so I guess one gets what one pays for in terms of education.
Paying for ones education is the way the system works in the US and also in most other countries as well. What would you suggest - move to another country or do without an education? I choose to utilize what I have available and be successful! - And it's not a lifetime debt as you seem to think. It's usually paid off in 5 years or so by most individuals. Much shorter then the 20 or 30 years to pay off a home that most people seem to have as a home mortgage.
I like how you ignore any of the research saying otherwise.
That is exactly what one does when their beliefs align with one side of the research data.

What do you think I should do, Present one side's research and argue that point then after finishing present the research from the other side and argue that point. If I did that I'd look as ridiculous as you. BTW I don't see you arguing with yourself as you are suggesting I should.
 
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I think I've found someone with very few brain cells, @agoodboye but what do I know - I come from what you describe as a "shithole" country. And what do you know about anything? You speak rather unintelligently so I guess one gets what one pays for in terms of education.
Paying for ones education is the way the system works in the US and also in most other countries as well. What would you suggest - move to another country or do without an education? I choose to utilize what I have available and be successful! - And it's not a lifetime debt as you seem to think. It's usually paid off in 5 years or so by most individuals. Much shorter then the 20 or 30 years to pay off a home that most people seem to have as a home mortgage.

That is exactly what one does when their beliefs align with one side of the research data.

What do you think I should do, Present one side's research and argue that point then after finishing present the research from the other side and argue that point. If I did that I'd look as ridiculous as you. BTW I don't see you arguing with yourself as you are suggesting I should.
Resorting to ad hominems does not make your argument any stronger, and with that I'll just ignore this thread because it's pointless trying to reason with you.

Yeah, with that reasoning, every single country in this world is bad.
In other countries people don't die because they're too scared to call an ambulance because it's too expensive, but whatever.
 
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Yes, the health benefits, and the pros and cons of this procedure are taught in my veterinarian school, which by the way is one of the top veterinarian schools in the USA, and they are proven facts, not propaganda.
They are propaganda. You are very much mistaken if you think they can't be propaganda when they are facts. Any halfway intelligent propaganda will always use facts. It may spice its facts with lies, but that's not even necessary. It is often enough for propaganda to be very selective about its choice of facts. What you posted was 100% one-sided.

In fact all procedures are taught along with the health related pros and cons of that procedure. Pros and cons, facts, not propaganda.
I didn't see any cons in the propaganda you posted. But even if both health-related pros and cons are taught, there's still something very important missing: an ethical evaluation. My post that you replied to specifically pointed in that direction, criticizing the focus on health risks and benefits alone.

Just because you are among those that want to believe this procedure to be mutilation does not mean that facts that go against what you want to believe are propaganda.
It is mutilation by definition. You may chose to redefine the words—which is typical for propaganda—and use your own terminology, but that will not change the reality of these surgeries in any way. Performing this on a human would be a severe crime, no matter what health benefits it may have and how you name it.

The point of asking or not asking or doing the procedure without the animals consent is moot. In the case of Female Animals they can not give their conscent for this procedure no more than they can give their consent for sex with a human and the only factor that makes it happen is the human factor. The human factor is also what makes this procedure happen to Male Animals, but male animals are able to demonstrate their desire to have sex with humans, but still are unable to provide us with an answer when it comes to having their consent for this procedure. So all in all it is a moot point.
So you argue that the inability of someone to consent to a procedure makes consent unnecessary? Curiously that's the opposite of how people argue against sex with children. There they say that children can't consent to sex as long as they lack sexual maturity and therefore sex with them is never okay.

Your claim that [sexually mature] female animals couldn't consent to sex with humans is contrary to loads of personal experiences and very specific descriptions for different species I have read here on Zooville by many users, on other forums and heard in personal accounts for more than a decade now. I have also seen numerous times in nature documentaries how female animals consent or dissent to sex and I have no idea why they shouldn't be able to show the same signals towards humans. Your claim is exactly what anti-zoo propaganda says though.
 
What do you think would happen to a top school if after it's students have spent almost $250,000.00 US Dollars on their education, if the graduates found out that what they had been taught was a bunch of untrue facts?
More importantly, why would a top university risk it's reputation by teaching propaganda?
Doing as many castrations as possible will surely help to pay off $250,000.00 US Dollars quicker. Their are two groups of people who have an obvious financial interest in castrations:
  1. Breeders
    Their interest is in castrating all dogs but their own breeding dogs of course.
  2. Vets
    Many vets don't put their financial interest over a dog's interest in their physical integrity. Castrations are unusual in many countries. I wouldn't assume that US vets are more greedy than vets in other parts of the world, but the high education costs could indeed play a role. My guess is that the most important reason is successful propaganda though.
Once you've established such a severe paradigm as removing sexual organs, it's hard to turn around. Nobody wants to explain that the surgeries they have performed on healthy animals for years may have been unnecessary, maybe even harmful and ethically wrong. It's natural for people to seek any justification they can get, even through teaching that what they did was right.

It's a sad reality that turning away from grave errors is much harder than giving up on small ones.
 
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Only one word works here:

WHOOOOOSSSSHHHH!!!!!

You TOTALLY missed the point I was making. Hell, you didn't even visit the same continent it was on!
Woosh, missed the point yourself and doubled down on the problem.
Try again next time with a better analogy.

Edit: btw thinking you can train out the instinct to breed: dogs have harmed themselves to the bone to get at a bitch in heat.
 
Their are two groups of people who have an obvious financial interest in castrations:
  1. Breeders
    Their interest is in castrating all dogs but their own breeding dogs of course.
No, that simply is not right.
Did you know, that real breeders do not earn any/or little money from breeding? There's no way to live off from the money you get from breeding, because all the money you get from a litter of puppies just flows back into the dogs. Vet costs, health testing, visiting shows in other countries, vaccines, deworming for the puppies, food. If you're lucky you will have 100€ from ONE littler of maybe 5 to 10 puppies every six months (depending on how many females you own, but then you automatically had to pay more, so 100€ adé).

If you were a person, who wants to earn money from it, you'll have to get several females of a very popular breed, put them in cages and have them impregnated every single time when they are in heat. Don't vaccinate the dogs, don't deworm, don't even ever bring them to a vet, same goes for the puppies. Take the puppies away at 4 weeks, when they are especially cute and sell them each for 1000€.
You can only earn real money from producing sick puppies and literally torturing the females with pregnancies PLUS "breeding" a sick breed like a french bulldog, pug, dachshund, shi tzu, and so on.
I don't know a term in English, but I bet you already have heard "Vermehrer". That's what it is.

Breeders do not care if the other dogs are spayed or not. Good breeders are good people, they don't want your money, they just want to better the breed they are breeding or just breed the breeds they love. This is a hell of work. You don't just simply decide to breed and go for it.

People should just stop producing mutts at home, that haven't ever been health tested and don't have a great temperament. Mostly, people sell a mutt of two breeds that do not match at all, this makes it difficult for the mutt and the owner. Also alot of genetic issues can be involve during the lifetime of this mutt.
And if someone wants to have a particular breed and has a little amount of intelligence, he/she will go to a reputable breeder. The breeder is not going to loose "buyers" if people don't spay or neuter.
The only ones who are loosing are the Vermehrerhunde and the people who buy from Vermehrern.

That's why I think spaying or neutering AFTER the dog fully developed into an adult is okay, if you really can not, under any circumstances guarantee no puppies.
I won't spay and neuter my male and female shepherds because I am able to do that. (in my opinion everyone should be, but you never know the lives of everyone)
 
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Resorting to ad hominems does not make your argument any stronger, and with that I'll just ignore this thread because it's pointless trying to reason with you.
Ah, so it's ok when you call my country a shithole, but it's an ad hominem when I point out that your argument is unintelligent. Such a poorly executed use of a standard strategy used in a debate.

You act as though I have never read or heard the side of the argument you present, and now suddenly because of some papers you have found on the subject that I should change my mind. You fail to understand that these papers are all part of the materials that are discussed at length in classes at most institutions with a veterinarian program.

Most if not all veterinarians care more about the animals they care for than the money they may earn. If a procedure poses a danger to the animal in later life, and that procedure is not one necessary to the animals survival at the present time, then I do believe that most veterinarians would avoid facilitating that procedure.
In other countries people don't die because they're too scared to call an ambulance because it's too expensive, but whatever.
In the US unless you use a private ambulance service there is no charge. The cost is absorbed by the Fire Department and is a taxpayer benefit. Anything else you care to say in order to demonstrate your lack of intelligence and run down the USA?
 
No, that simply is not right.
Did you know, that real breeders do not earn any/or little money from breeding? There's no way to live off from the money you get from breeding, because all the money you get from a litter of puppies just flows back into the dogs. Vet costs, health testing, visiting shows in other countries, vaccines, deworming for the puppies, food. If you're lucky you will have 100€ from ONE littler of maybe 5 to 10 puppies every six months (depending on how many females you own, but then you automatically had to pay more, so 100€ adé).

If you were a person, who wants to earn money from it, you'll have to get several females of a very popular breed, put them in cages and have them impregnated every single time when they are in heat. Don't vaccinate the dogs, don't deworm, don't even ever bring them to a vet, same goes for the puppies. Take the puppies away at 4 weeks, when they are especially cute and sell them each for 1000€.
You can only earn real money from producing sick puppies and literally torturing the females with pregnancies PLUS "breeding" a sick breed like a french bulldog, pug, dachshund, shi tzu, and so on.
I don't know a term in English, but I bet you already have heard "Vermehrer". That's what it is.

Breeders do not care if the other dogs are spayed or not. Good breeders are good people, they don't want your money, they just want to better the breed they are breeding or just breed the breeds they love. This is a hell of work. You don't just simply decide to breed and go for it.
But @MRYP, you are talking from your experience in Germany. There is no "you've got to castrate your dog paradigm" in Germany like in the USA yet, although I've seen it pop up in recent adviser literature and seen exercised by some shelters. US culture has—and it would be very unfortunate in this case—the tendency to spill over into the rest of the world.

People should just stop producing mutts at home, that haven't ever been health tested and don't have a great temperament. Mostly, people sell a mutt of two breeds that do not match at all, this makes it difficult for the mutt and the owner. Also alot of genetic issues can be involve during the lifetime of this mutt.
And if someone wants to have a particular breed and has a little amount of intelligence, he/she will go to a reputable breeder. The breeder is not going to loose "buyers" if people don't spay or neuter.

The only ones who are loosing are the Vermehrerhunde and the people who buy from Vermehrern.
Did you know that purebred dogs are sold in stores in the US? It's a really different market.

That's why I think spaying or neutering AFTER the dog fully developed into an adult is okay, if you really can not, under any circumstances guarantee no puppies.
I won't spay and neuter my male and female shepherds because I am able to do that. (in my opinion everyone should be, but you never know the lives of everyone)
I'd rather recommend a plush toy to people who cannot manage an intact dog.
 
But @MRYP, you are talking from your experience in Germany. There is no "you've got to castrate your dog paradigm" in Germany like in the USA yet, although I've seen it pop up in recent adviser literature and seen exercised by some shelters. US culture has—and it would be very unfortunate in this case—the tendency to spill over into the rest of the world.
Yeah, you're right there.
I know a breeder in the US who is not entirely pro spaying, but she got one of her dogs spayed and rehomed too. Which I can understand.


Did you know that purebred dogs are sold in stores in the US? It's a really different market.
This also happened and happens in Germany still. Those dogs are from puppy mills.
But I guess people in America are used to getting everything they want, when they want it. Because that's what they are taught.
There are enough reputable breeders in the US too, but they lately have been struggling with some crazy "don't shop, adopt" people who don't understand what it really meant in the first place.
 
They are propaganda. You are very much mistaken if you think they can't be propaganda when they are facts. Any halfway intelligent propaganda will always use facts. It may spice its facts with lies, but that's not even necessary. It is often enough for propaganda to be very selective about its choice of facts. What you posted was 100% one-sided.
Although propaganda by one part of the definition is; ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause -

You are like @agoodboye failing to understand that materials with conflicting views are discussed at length in classes at most institutions with veterinarian programs. The result of hours of bashing opposing viewpoints back and forth is usually very close to what is correct, and that view is not one fueled by propaganda.

And of course what I posted was 100% one-sided. Are you like @agoodboye and expect me to make a post wherein I argue with myself? How ridiculous would that be?

So you argue that the inability of someone to consent to a procedure makes consent unnecessary? Curiously that's the opposite of how people argue against sex with children. There they say that children can't consent to sex as long as they lack sexual maturity and therefore sex with them is never okay.

Your claim that [sexually mature] female animals couldn't consent to sex with humans is contrary to loads of personal experiences and very specific descriptions for different species I have read here on Zooville by many users, on other forums and heard in personal accounts for more than a decade now. I have also seen numerous times in nature documentaries how female animals consent or dissent to sex and I have no idea why they shouldn't be able to show the same signals towards humans. Your claim is exactly what anti-zoo propaganda says though.
As I said - the point, consent, is a moot point. Your trying to criticize off of what was used figuratively in making that point.
 
You are like @agoodboye failing to understand that materials with conflicting views are discussed at length in classes at most institutions with a veterinarian programs. The result of hours of bashing opposing viewpoints back and forth is usually very close to what is correct, and that view is not one fueled by propaganda.
So you just decided yourself that spaying is good because it decreases the risks of 2 medical conditions and ignore that it increases a lot of other medical conditions plus behavioural issues?
Tell me, I really would like to understand, not bash you.
 
So you just decided yourself that spaying is good because it decreases the risks of 2 medical conditions and ignore that it increases a lot of other medical conditions plus behavioural issues?
Tell me, I really would like to understand, not bash you.
Spaying decreases the risk of much more than 2 medical issues, and recent studies have confirmed that in certain larger breeds living past 10 years of age there are issues with joint related problems.
I should point out that surgical alternatives to spaying/neutering do exist;
1) Hysterectomy: the uterus and part of the fallopian tubes are removed. This makes her unable to reproduce, but her ovaries remain and will produce hormones. This may not eliminate the animals behaviors associated with the breeding instinct.
2) Ovariectomy: the ovaries are removed from the animal, but the uterus remains. Similar to ovariohysterectomy, this makes her unable to reproduce and eliminates her heat cycle and breeding instinct-related behavior.
3) Vasectomy: only the vas deferens, which conducts sperm from the testes, are removed. This procedure makes the animal unable to reproduce, but his testes remain and will produce hormones. In most cases the animal’s behaviors associated with the breeding instinct remains.

Also there is Nonsurgical sterilization
There are approved products on the market, Neutersol and Zeuterin, that are used to neuter male cats and dogs. Either product is injected into the testicles to stop sperm production and render the dog or cat infertile. Because not all of the hormone-producing cells of the testis are affected by the drug, the testicles will continue to produce some hormones. As research continues, additional products for nonsurgical sterilization will probably be developed.
 
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Spaying decreases the risk of much more than 2 medical issues, and recent studies have confirmed that in certain larger breeds living past 10 years of age there are issues with joint related problems.
Wait, so there are more issues with the joints when spayed or when not spayed?

What other complications does spaying prevent?

Doesn't removing the hormones at six months make the dog grow bigger than it is supposed to be, because the growth plates don't harden or close up ( I don't know what exactly happens there) when they're are supposed to?
Doesn't this lead to problems in the joints, since the dog is bigger, than it genetically was supposed to be?
Doesn't neutering a male dog make it's bones be weaker?
Doesn't spaying and neutering increase the risks of various other types of cancer?
Doesn't make spaying a female dog increase the risk of her being incontinent, especially when they become older?
I've also heard a lot about spayed females whose fur turned into a mess after the operation. The fur was not capable of blocking water or keep the dog warm in the winter, since it got a puppy-fur texture.

See, those are the things I am asking you, because I have no experience with that at all and I also am not a vet.
I specialize in dog behavior and I am only taught a few basics of medical conditions, the impact of hormones on the behaviour and simplified neurology.
I can only tell about the dogs, especially males, which turned into a mess after having their balls removed and about intact males reacting to neutered ones.
And honestly, I wouldn't ever wish my worst enemy what those male dogs have to go through. And people still wonder why their males slowly turn aggressive.
 
Wait, so there are more issues with the joints when spayed or when not spayed?

What other complications does spaying prevent?

Doesn't removing the hormones at six months make the dog grow bigger than it is supposed to be, because the growth plates don't harden or close up ( I don't know what exactly happens there) when they're are supposed to?
Doesn't this lead to problems in the joints, since the dog is bigger, than it genetically was supposed to be?
Doesn't neutering a male dog make it's bones be weaker?
Doesn't spaying and neutering increase the risks of various other types of cancer?
Doesn't make spaying a female dog increase the risk of her being incontinent, especially when they become older?
I've also heard a lot about spayed females whose fur turned into a mess after the operation. The fur was not capable of blocking water or keep the dog warm in the winter, since it got a puppy-fur texture.

See, those are the things I am asking you, because I have no experience with that at all and I also am not a vet.
I specialize in dog behavior and I am only taught a few basics of medical conditions, the impact of hormones on the behaviour and simplified neurology.
I can only tell about the dogs, especially males, which turned into a mess after having their balls removed and about intact males reacting to neutered ones.
And honestly, I wouldn't ever wish my worst enemy what those male dogs have to go through. And people still wonder why their males slowly turn aggressive.
What other complications does spaying prevent?
Spaying helps prevent metritis and pyometra. It greatly reduces her chances of developing mammary cancer and completely eliminates the threat of uterine and ovarian cancer and uterine infection, which are common occurrences in females that have not been spayed.

Doesn't removing the hormones at six months make the dog grow bigger than it is supposed to be, because the growth plates don't harden or close up ( I don't know what exactly happens there) when they're are supposed to?
Spay and neuter surgeries decrease the level of sex hormones, which does indeed slow down an animal’s metabolism, but mostly, animals become overweight due to lack of appropriate diet and exercise - not specifically from being spayed or neutered. Neutered dogs have lower calorie needs because of the alteration of hormones. Animals are often fed quantities of food based on pet food manufacturers’ recommendations. These recommendations are more than the amount that your vet would recommend and don't take into account other issues such as hormonal alteration, exercise or activity. Some animals do well on the pet food manufacturers’ recommended amount, while others may need more or less food (usually less). The age at which an animal should be changed over to adult food will vary based on breed, size, and individual activity level and as your animal ages, it is important to adjust their diet and their exercise regimen accordingly so they remain healthy throughout their life.

Below is a chart of daily recommendations for dogs from The American Veterinarian Association.
Feeding chart for dogs


Other reported factors contributing to obesity include an animal’s breed, housing environment, age, and even the weight and age of the pet parent (our lifestyles can often rub off on our animals). The fact is that the problem of animal obesity is multi-factorial and there have been many research studies to help determine the cause. Many of them indicate that spaying or neutering at 6 months of age may decrease the incidence of obesity.

Doesn't this lead to problems in the joints, since the dog is bigger, than it genetically was supposed to be?
Since the problem in the joints, mainly hip dysplasia, is only experienced by larger breeds, studies are still underway to determine the cause, and at this point the answers we are being given are qualified, but still only speculation.

Doesn't neutering a male dog make it's bones be weaker?
Not necessarily weaker, but neutering a dog can negatively impact the development of its long bones, especially in large breeds. Future Veterinarians are being taught that neutering of large and giant breeds should be delayed until one year and six months of age, or until the reproductive organs have fully developed. Studies have shown that early neutering in large and giant breeds interfere with the development of height. The long bones can get abnormally large if castration is done before the growth plates in the limbs are closed. Neutering can predispose a dog to develop hip dysplasia.

Doesn't spaying and neutering increase the risks of various other types of cancer?
The veterinary community at present believes that it is more benificial to spay the female at the 6 month age, and this has shown to prevent many cancers. On the other hand recent studies are coming into light that show it to be more beneficial to delay the neutering of the male until the reproductive organs are fully developed. Studies indicate that some cancers developed at a higher rate among neutered dogs than among their counterparts that were unaltered.

Today's marketplace also offers an alternative to surgical sterilization for our male animals. The products, Neutersol or Zeuterin, can be used to neuter male animals. Both products require an injection into the testicles and they then stop sperm production, but continue to allow hormones to be produced. Perhaps in our near future additional products for nonsurgical sterilization for the female animal will be developed.

Doesn't make spaying a female dog increase the risk of her being incontinent, especially when they become older?
You're asking about "Estrogen-Responsive or Spay Incontinence" and the answer here is two-fold. This happens because after a female dog is spayed, the strength of her urethral sphincter decreases in the years following her surgery. As she gets older, this decrease of strength of the urethral sphincter may worsen. This is so because the decline in the estrogen levels after spaying may cause a decrease in the functions of the urethral sphincter and its supporting tissues. According to studies, roughly about 20% of spayed female dogs will develop incontinence within three years of being spayed.

But as they say, all dogs are different. Large breed dogs are more likely to develop spay incontinence than small dogs. Also, dogs who are spayed before their first heat have a lower chance of developing spay incontinence in female dogs, however, the veterinary community currently believes that spaying before three months of age may increase the potential of its development.

But it is often an easy problem to solve - if you know the basics and how to properly manage it.

I've also heard a lot about spayed females whose fur turned into a mess after the operation. The fur was not capable of blocking water or keep the dog warm in the winter, since it got a puppy-fur texture.
I have no knowledge of this nor have I read anything along these lines concerning female dogs. However, male dogs that have been neutered may develop a more wooly type of coat. Groomers refer to this hard to manage coat as a "spay coat" and since spay refers to the procedure for females this might have thrown you off. It shows up in some breeds more than others. Spaniels are particularly susceptible with silky coats becoming more wooly after neutering.

See, those are the things I am asking you, because I have no experience with that at all and I also am not a vet.
I'm not a vet for a few more years so some of my answers could be lacking conclusion, but I sincerely hope that the answers I have given you help.

One thing I want to say in regard to your finding it repulsive to preform a spay or neuter at 6 months of age is that in shelters they preform spay and neuters on animals only 6 weeks old. There are currently studies being conducted on most of the questions people ask about animals having this procedure preformed at the 6 month age in order to determine the differences, and while I do understand how we make advancements in our technology, I am a bit repulsed that the shelters couldn't wait until the animal is older to do this procedure. I suppose that we will find out what if any benefit occurs, and it might be very beneficial, but at present it is still off-putting in nature.
 
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@knotinterested
Thank you for your answer and sorry about the "bigger"-question. I originally meant "taller", I oftentimes forget that it means "bigger in weight" in English, but you answered the question underneath that one anyway.


I have no knowledge of this nor have I read anything along these lines concerning female dogs. However, male dogs that have been neutered may develop a more wooly type of coat
I've also known of people who had spayed females that developed that type of fur. It seems to occur in both sexes. (I did not know that it happens to male dogs also tho)
 
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