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Zooville 2022 Study Officially Peer-Reviewed and Inducted.

BigPotato said:
The problem with that is the same as always has been: animals don't have the same level of intelligence as we do, and although they can give (non-verbal) consent, most people think they don't give ANY consent at all, and A LOT of things in our society would have to change for zoophilia to be accepted, or at least not condenmned as seriously.
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How does one measure intelligence. We require a compase or a gps to get from point A to B. How many animals do you see using a GPS or a compass to get from point A to B??? Years back I had a cat that jumped out of my car approx 60km from home. Weeks later it returned home without pads on its feet from walking for weeks on end. The cat had NO GPS or compass yet it found its way home. Is that stupidity or intelligence. They have senses that we can only dream of having. We have to build devices to try and achieve these natural levels of sophistication. Just because we create things to make life easier for ourselves or to destroy this planet doesnt mean that we are intelligent. How many animals have you seen creating wars? How many animals do you see torturing or being inhumane to another animal? Not many I bet. Animals love unconditionally. Can we say the same about the human race. I bet we cant. We as humans base intelligence on what we create to benefit ourselves or to justify our destructive ways. In general majority of humans dont think about the environment yet alone the creatures around us. Humans have made excuses to justify torturing animals for centuries and to prevent their natural growth of intelligence. How many times have we heard the line "animals are stupid and dont have feelings". They arent stupid and they definitely have feelings. Just because they dont communicate like us it doesnt mean they are stupid or the like. Mankind needs to wake up to itself and realize that there are different forms of intelligence in this world. NOT just what we are led and indoctrinated to believe from a very young age. After all........ How many scientist have studied animals to try and find out why they can do what we cant do. Hmmmmm branding ones self as being intelligent is the first step towards stupidity. Id rather be with and love an animal before I will love a human. At least animals dont have a hidden agenda and is driven by worthless paper money. They are genuine, loyal and devoted to their loved ones and dont require our modcons in life to prove to humans that they are intelligent..
 
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HugDoggy said:
Whether or not it will ever be accepted by the masses, the more decent research that can be done and accepted by the scientific community on the matter, will if nothing else help for a better understanding of zoosexuality being really not that different to other sexual attractions; which fall outside of the normative heterosexual behaviour that is consider the standard we are all suposed to aspire to, in order to be seen as a regular common member of our species.
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Why dont we go back to the root of our beliefs about zoosexuality. The only real reason why its not accepted is because the masses have been indoctrinated to believe in a certain way from birth. This has been happening for centuries if not longer. It has nothing to do with what is right and wrong. Its got to do with the beliefs of a few/minority that has been forced down our throats from birth. The masses/sheep are too stupid to think for themselves so they just go along with what they are fed throughout time. Its a cop out and an easy way to fall into line and fly under the radar. Its not about ZOO or BEAST. Its about full control of society.
 
pet love said:
How does one measure intelligence. We require a compase or a gps to get from point A to B. How many animals do you see using a GPS or a compass to get from point A to B??? Years back I had a cat that jumped out of my car approx 60km from home. Weeks later it returned home without pads on its feet from walking for weeks on end. The cat had NO GPS or compass yet it found its way home. Is that stupidity or intelligence. They have senses that we can only dream of having. We have to build devices to try and achieve these natural levels of sophistication. Just because we create things to make life easier for ourselves or to destroy this planet doesnt mean that we are intelligent. How many animals have you seen creating wars? How many animals do you see torturing or being inhumane to another animal? Not many I bet. Animals love unconditionally. Can we say the same about the human race. I bet we cant. We as humans base intelligence on what we create to benefit ourselves or to justify our destructive ways. In general majority of humans dont think about the environment yet alone the creatures around us. Humans have made excuses to justify torturing animals for centuries and to prevent their natural growth of intelligence. How many times have we heard the line "animals are stupid and dont have feelings". They arent stupid and they definitely have feelings. Just because they dont communicate like us it doesnt mean they are stupid or the like. Mankind needs to wake up to itself and realize that there are different forms of intelligence in this world. NOT just what we are led and indoctrinated to believe from a very young age. After all........ How many scientist have studied animals to try and find out why they can do what we cant do. Hmmmmm branding ones self as being intelligent is the first step towards stupidity. Id rather be with and love an animal before I will love a human. At least animals dont have a hidden agenda and is driven by worthless paper money. They are genuine, loyal and devoted to their loved ones and dont require our modcons in life to prove to humans that they are intelligent..
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"We need another and a wiser and perhaps a more mystical concept of animals…For the animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older and more complete than ours they move finished and complete, gifted with extensions of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. They are not brethren, they are not underlings; they are other nations, caught with ourselves in the net of life and time, fellow prisoners of the splendor and travail of the earth." - Henry Beston, The Outermost House
 
pet love said:
Why dont we go back to the root of our beliefs about zoosexuality. The only real reason why its not accepted is because the masses have been indoctrinated to believe in a certain way from birth. This has been happening for centuries if not longer. It has nothing to do with what is right and wrong. Its got to do with the beliefs of a few/minority that has been forced down our throats from birth. The masses/sheep are too stupid to think for themselves so they just go along with what they are fed throughout time. Its a cop out and an easy way to fall into line and fly under the radar. Its not about ZOO or BEAST. Its about full control of society.
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Well sure if we could change the way people think about it from birth, problem solved. The trouble is for the majority of people on the planet there is no problem to be solved in the first place. However if it can be accepted as not the root of all evil by the scientific community then those who actually care to question things, or have an open mind enough not to just condemn things out of hand; could at least see the research and draw their own conclusions. If there is no good research out there, then people have to make assumptions and in such cases the loudest voices are usually the ones heard whether what they are saying is factually correct or not.
 
mowzinger said:
You have to buy it...?
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Unfortunately, this is very common in Academia, although usually can be acquired by other means. In my experience from interacting with authors, they receive little to no money from the outrageous price they post. Often times you can get the source material from the author directly through an email.
 
pet love said:
How does one measure intelligence. We require a compase or a gps to get from point A to B. How many animals do you see using a GPS or a compass to get from point A to B??? Years back I had a cat that jumped out of my car approx 60km from home. Weeks later it returned home without pads on its feet from walking for weeks on end. The cat had NO GPS or compass yet it found its way home. Is that stupidity or intelligence. They have senses that we can only dream of having. We have to build devices to try and achieve these natural levels of sophistication. Just because we create things to make life easier for ourselves or to destroy this planet doesnt mean that we are intelligent. How many animals have you seen creating wars? How many animals do you see torturing or being inhumane to another animal? Not many I bet. Animals love unconditionally. Can we say the same about the human race. I bet we cant. We as humans base intelligence on what we create to benefit ourselves or to justify our destructive ways. In general majority of humans dont think about the environment yet alone the creatures around us. Humans have made excuses to justify torturing animals for centuries and to prevent their natural growth of intelligence. How many times have we heard the line "animals are stupid and dont have feelings". They arent stupid and they definitely have feelings. Just because they dont communicate like us it doesnt mean they are stupid or the like. Mankind needs to wake up to itself and realize that there are different forms of intelligence in this world. NOT just what we are led and indoctrinated to believe from a very young age. After all........ How many scientist have studied animals to try and find out why they can do what we cant do. Hmmmmm branding ones self as being intelligent is the first step towards stupidity. Id rather be with and love an animal before I will love a human. At least animals dont have a hidden agenda and is driven by worthless paper money. They are genuine, loyal and devoted to their loved ones and dont require our modcons in life to prove to humans that they are intelligent..
Click to expand...
I know they are intelligent, but there are different types of intelligence, and animals don't have the logical one, they aren't able to think the same way as us and the base of a relationship is equality.
Yes, I know they have feelings, I know they process deep and complex emotions, but for most people they are inferior life beings and thus can not be treated as an equal, and being inferior, they judge interspecies relationships as a form of abuse by thinking "Humans are superior, they can dominate and teach inferior beings to do things they don't want to do, they can trick them into thinking they want something", and the people who believe that... Are partially right.
We can do those things, because animals are way less intelligent than we are, and for domestic animals (most common partners) is even easier because they depend on their human. There is a very thin line between abuse and a true romantic relationship with an animal because we can't tell what they are really thinking or feeling, we can only try and guess based on corporal language, but they may as well be enduring something just because they love us or because there will be a reward at the end (which is training, and I know this is wrong, but is an example).
It's... A complicated topic, it's hard to prove we are doing things the right way, and legalizing zoophilia would lead to people abusing animals without repercussion
Maybe we are better in the shadows, at least it gives some hope to animals that are being abused, even though it means we can't be open about what we feel
 
BigPotato said:
I know they are intelligent, but there are different types of intelligence, and animals don't have the logical one, they aren't able to think the same way as us and the base of a relationship is equality.
Yes, I know they have feelings, I know they process deep and complex emotions, but for most people they are inferior life beings and thus can not be treated as an equal, and being inferior, they judge interspecies relationships as a form of abuse by thinking "Humans are superior, they can dominate and teach inferior beings to do things they don't want to do, they can trick them into thinking they want something", and the people who believe that... Are partially right.
We can do those things, because animals are way less intelligent than we are, and for domestic animals (most common partners) is even easier because they depend on their human. There is a very thin line between abuse and a true romantic relationship with an animal because we can't tell what they are really thinking or feeling, we can only try and guess based on corporal language, but they may as well be enduring something just because they love us or because there will be a reward at the end (which is training, and I know this is wrong, but is an example).
It's... A complicated topic, it's hard to prove we are doing things the right way, and legalizing zoophilia would lead to people abusing animals without repercussion
Maybe we are better in the shadows, at least it gives some hope to animals that are being abused, even though it means we can't be open about what we feel
Click to expand...
I disagree with you on some of your points as they are too linear and based on an incomplete view of how All That Is manifests physically. Although the scientific method is or rather seems logical it is still evolving oftentimes from what could almost be referred to an epiphany (or quantum leaps). It is flawed to attempt to define other beings in terms of ones self which virtually all humans are wont to do. Sadly few take into account the 'spiritual' aspect of All That Is although the fields of subatomic (particle) physics and cosmology do to some extent as they deal with a largely on-going field of discovery.

On the spiritual side there are the aspects of empathy and telepathy however the difficulty with both are the tendency for humans to interject their biases into what is revealed to them. What's difficult for humans is that we become overly enamored with our intellect and knowledge discounting the experience aspect of understanding. It is NOT possible to understand something without an experiential reference and experience is NOT directly transferable it can only be 'shared' abstractly via a mentor to 'student' relationship. It's equally important that a mentor acknowledge that they are also a 'student' in such a relationship. Here is a quote that I am very fond of that eloquently states the spiritual side of All That Is:

"We need another and a wiser and perhaps a more mystical concept of animals…For the animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older and more complete than ours they move finished and complete, gifted with extensions of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. They are not brethren, they are not underlings; they are other nations, caught with ourselves in the net of life and time, fellow prisoners of the splendor and travail of the earth." - Henry Beston, The Outermost House
 
BigPotato said:
I know they are intelligent, but there are different types of intelligence, and animals don't have the logical one, they aren't able to think the same way as us and the base of a relationship is equality.
Yes, I know they have feelings, I know they process deep and complex emotions, but for most people they are inferior life beings and thus can not be treated as an equal, and being inferior, they judge interspecies relationships as a form of abuse by thinking "Humans are superior, they can dominate and teach inferior beings to do things they don't want to do, they can trick them into thinking they want something", and the people who believe that... Are partially right.
We can do those things, because animals are way less intelligent than we are, and for domestic animals (most common partners) is even easier because they depend on their human. There is a very thin line between abuse and a true romantic relationship with an animal because we can't tell what they are really thinking or feeling, we can only try and guess based on corporal language, but they may as well be enduring something just because they love us or because there will be a reward at the end (which is training, and I know this is wrong, but is an example).
It's... A complicated topic, it's hard to prove we are doing things the right way, and legalizing zoophilia would lead to people abusing animals without repercussion
Maybe we are better in the shadows, at least it gives some hope to animals that are being abused, even though it means we can't be open about what we feel
Click to expand...
I don't really have the time to discuss this fully this morning, but what leads you to believe animals don't have the ability to use logic. Packs of wolves have been seen to stop and plan an attack before taking down a larger animal with every member of the pack on the hunt acting independently but in such a way that they are still working together as a team to achieve the goal.

I've seen a dog study a gate they've been locked behind with a friend they then climbed over the fence and were out, but rather than just run off they turned back to the gate and opened it from the outside something they were able to do because the locking mechanism was on that side. After letting their friend out of the fenced area then they departed, or at least they would have except some mean human stopped their adventure.

Animals can and do show logical thinking every day whether it's as simple as if I do this, that will happen. eg: if I sit I will get a treat or be praised. Or I push this button to say a word my stupid human can understand because they don't know how to read body language to communicate with me properly. Guide dogs and other dogs that have jobs such as Search and rescue dogs quite often have to make logic decisions to achieve a goal.

Will a dog pass an IQ test probably not, but don't forget that those tests are designed for humans and often humans from a particular background. a person from the middle of Africa and someone from New York city may have the same traits and abilities as each other but they have quite different upbringings and may score vastly differently on the same IQ test.

It's a complex issue, but to say animals can't think logically is not correct. It is more being able to convey the information to them so they can use it to make a logical decision that is often the real issue at play.
 
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HugDoggy said:
I don't really have the time to discuss this fully this morning, but what leads you to believe animals don't have the ability to use logic. Packs of wolves have been seen to stop and plan an attack before taking down a larger animal with every member of the pack on the hunt acting independently but in such a way that they are still working together as a team to achieve the goal.

I've seen a dog study a gate they've been locked behind with a friend they then climbed over the fence and were out, but rather than just run off they turned back to the gate and opened it from the outside something they were able to do because the locking mechanism was on that side. After letting their friend out of the fenced area then they departed, or at least they would have except some mean human stopped their adventure.

Animals can and do show logical thinking every day whether it's as simple as if I do this, that will happen. eg: if I sit I will get a treat or be praised. Or I push this button to say a word my stupid human can understand because they don't know how to read body language to communicate with me properly. Guide dogs and other dogs that have jobs such as Search and rescue dogs quite often have to make logic decisions to achieve a goal.

Will a dog pass an IQ test probably not, but don't forget that those tests are designed for humans and often humans from a particular background. a person from the middle of Africa and someone from New York city may have the same traits and abilities as each other but they have quite different upbringings and may score vastly differently on the same IQ test.

It's a complex issue, but to say animals can think logically is not correct. It is more being able to convey the information to them so they can use it to make a logical decision that is often the real issue at play.
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Yeah, I made some mistakes while writing that one, I forgot some very important things, but the base of the comment still remains, they can't think to the same extent as us, and thus, most people will not tolerate any kind of relationship between animals and humans. Ever.
Sorry for not getting it right, but thanks for the extra (and correct) information.
Edit: any kind of romantic relationship
 
EponasDevotee said:
I disagree with you on some of your points as they are too linear and based on an incomplete view of how All That Is manifests physically. Although the scientific method is or rather seems logical it is still evolving oftentimes from what could almost be referred to an epiphany (or quantum leaps). It is flawed to attempt to define other beings in terms of ones self which virtually all humans are wont to do. Sadly few take into account the 'spiritual' aspect of All That Is although the fields of subatomic (particle) physics and cosmology do to some extent as they deal with a largely on-going field of discovery.

On the spiritual side there are the aspects of empathy and telepathy however the difficulty with both are the tendency for humans to interject their biases into what is revealed to them. What's difficult for humans is that we become overly enamored with our intellect and knowledge discounting the experience aspect of understanding. It is NOT possible to understand something without an experiential reference and experience is NOT directly transferable it can only be 'shared' abstractly via a mentor to 'student' relationship. It's equally important that a mentor acknowledge that they are also a 'student' in such a relationship. Here is a quote that I am very fond of that eloquently states the spiritual side of All That Is:

"We need another and a wiser and perhaps a more mystical concept of animals…For the animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older and more complete than ours they move finished and complete, gifted with extensions of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. They are not brethren, they are not underlings; they are other nations, caught with ourselves in the net of life and time, fellow prisoners of the splendor and travail of the earth." - Henry Beston, The Outermost House
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My point with everything I wrote was that we may not be accepted because other animal species are considered inferior, dumber and easy to manipulate, and so, any kind of romantic relationship with an animal will be seen as abuse.
I know this interpretation is wrong, but it is the one the world has. Once again, as I said in the other comment, sorry for not being precise and not expressing myself in the best way, to be honest I just said what I thought, but I lacked information and so the comment was wrong. Sorry again and have a good day
This goes for @HugDoggy too, I was a bit frustrated while writing the last comment, sorry if I made you feel angry or something (I don't know how to say that in english and google translate isn't helping me, I guess you can get what I mean with that last sentence)
 
BigPotato said:
My point with everything I wrote was that we may not be accepted because other animal species are considered inferior, dumber and easy to manipulate, and so, any kind of romantic relationship with an animal will be seen as abuse.
I know this interpretation is wrong, but it is the one the world has. Once again, as I said in the other comment, sorry for not being precise and not expressing myself in the best way, to be honest I just said what I thought, but I lacked information and so the comment was wrong. Sorry again and have a good day
This goes for @HugDoggy too, I was a bit frustrated while writing the last comment, sorry if I made you feel angry or something (I don't know how to say that in english and google translate isn't helping me, I guess you can get what I mean with that last sentence)
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Exactly this. I really wish we could appeal to the general public, but the fact of the matter is they are highly unlikely to ever change their stances no matter what we do because of how lesser they view non-humans. :gsd_tired:
 
purpleponyman said:
prison is my guess
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Jokes on them, because if it ever came down to that id off myself before they could even reach the front door, and if all else fails. 3 days without water seems doable, its not like theyll put in a permanent IV or force feed me liquids like some sick lab rat. Doubtful ?‍♂️
 
Some of the data doesn't seem to make a ton of sense at a glance, it looks like the "furry" group was rated even lower than the "zoophile" group in sttraction to humans. Kind of funny in a way.
 
mbatty said:
Some of the data doesn't seem to make a ton of sense at a glance, it looks like the "furry" group was rated even lower than the "zoophile" group in sttraction to humans. Kind of funny in a way.
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Right isnt furry an attraction to a human in a costume :gsd_laughing:
(which definitely fits the definition of a fetish considering its arousal from, and need for an inatimate object to become aroused, why they compare the two in this study im not sure, one is sorta acceptable in society and the other, well. Its two very different things comprehensively)
Personally i can tell you, suit or no the human body is gross to me. Animals are much more attractive. In a erotic and beauty sense of the word. Its my ORIENTATION whether studies acknowledge it as one or not. Ive been romantically attracted to dogs all of my life. Never felt it for a human.
 
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BigPotato said:
The problem with that is the same as always has been: animals don't have the same level of intelligence as we do, and although they can give (non-verbal) consent, most people think they don't give ANY consent at all, and A LOT of things in our society would have to change for zoophilia to be accepted, or at least not condenmned as seriously.
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But i guess people think they give consent to be eaten.
 
BigPotato said:
The problem with that is the same as always has been: animals don't have the same level of intelligence as we do, and although they can give (non-verbal) consent, most people think they don't give ANY consent at all, and A LOT of things in our society would have to change for zoophilia to be accepted, or at least not condenmned as seriously.
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I don't believe that this is the problem. That's just the first argument that comes into peoples minds. It doesn't mean it is the one that was used to justify our persecution.

There has been a deliberate policy coming from anti-zoos to spread lies (animal brothels in Danemark / Deutschland), false information (photo-montage of "raped" animals), at best based upon miss-interpretations of studies, protraying zoos as dangerous perverts inclined to commit various types of offences. This has been mixed with a refusal to engage in discussion and to include zoos on the political level.
Such policy also included tolerance, encouragement of acts aimed at detering zoos from activism (including not only but defamation, animal theft, threats, harassment, physical violence, doxing, property damage).

"Animals not having the same level of intelligence" is the least of our problems. Politicians know about animal husbandry practises, and there they use differences between humans and animals as an argument against a prohibition of such methods.
 
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