Zoo Attraction study

[AppleDash]

I haven't read everything above me but here's a suggestion: we should do our own at home research about consent behaviours. And this doesn't have to just be for sex, it can be anything like consenting to be cleaned or given medication etc. Yes it wouldn't be the most accurate but it could allow us to see patterns in the way dogs,horses,etc consent to things, which could be useful for when we finally find researchers who are willing to do studies on us.

I like the idea, but bear in mind the moment a self-confessed zoo is going to do this research, it could easily be dismissed as "zoos trying to justify themselves". I agree though with the consent remark: it goes way beyond sex.

Some interesting newspaper article I found the other day:

The big idea: do animals have emotions?

Can we really intuit an animal’s feelings, or are we merely projecting our own?

www.theguardian.com

 

[K_9River_rat]

I like the idea, but bear in mind the moment a self-confessed zoo is going to do this research, it could easily be dismissed as "zoos trying to justify themselves". I agree though with the consent remark: it goes way beyond sex.

Some interesting newspaper article I found the other day:

The big idea: do animals have emotions?

Can we really intuit an animal’s feelings, or are we merely projecting our own?

www.theguardian.com

Thanks for posting this!

And while I realize that would be the knee jerk reaction, scientifically obtained data is still just that. Add to that, I would like to see a study done with non zoos, with only coaching being on body language. I'd expect to see less k9 interest in a non zoo because I believe they (k9s) have the ability to differentiate in some cases. At least that has been my observation

 

[K_9River_rat]

I like the idea, but bear in mind the moment a self-confessed zoo is going to do this research, it could easily be dismissed as "zoos trying to justify themselves". I agree though with the consent remark: it goes way beyond sex.

Some interesting newspaper article I found the other day:

The big idea: do animals have emotions?

Can we really intuit an animal’s feelings, or are we merely projecting our own?

www.theguardian.com

Interesting article, but I think it misses the mark.

I'll never sit here and try to argue that a dog's comprehensive skills are on par with that of a human, but in the same breath, I will argue that whatever they are feeling, or wanting is real enough and good enough for them.

Sure, they may or may not feel say happy the way we would, but nobody can argue that they do feel happiness in their own way, and the same can be said about many of their emotions.

They certainly feel jealousy in some measure and many other things that we do as well.

If they are lacking, I would think it would be more in things that are unique to humans. And even if they are somewhat say on a more "basic" level, there are plenty of times that I'd rather the more basic even in myself.

 

[K_9River_rat]

From the article I feel you could argue that even human to human emotions are impossible to interpret . Like how do you know that I feel sad like you do or happy like you do.

Exactly. Not just that, but I feel a lot of these people want to say one and the other are not equal, because then that can be seen as "animals are just as good as humans" and they just can't have that.

I do clearly realize that the way in which they think and feel is different, however I don't think we as humans have the right to say absolutely that they can't or shouldn't be allowed to make their own choices.

Their choices are real. What right do we have to say they're wrong, unless a choice puts them in harm's way?

Flip the script for a sec and think about Star Trek. Captain Kirk runs around and bumps uglies with aliens. Hate to say it but different species people. But that's ok in our eyes because the aliens are superior beings...

But what happens if the aliens think of us as we do animals????

 

[JazzyPaws]

Maybe in a few generations, enough of those dominoes will have toppled in order to start a REAL scientific inquiry. Until then I haven't the faintest clue what we could do to really start, that would carry any merit, without putting lives on the line.

I'll put myself, in the line of fire, but not my mates.

 

[K_9River_rat]

Maybe in a few generations, enough of those dominoes will have toppled in order to start a REAL scientific inquiry. Until then I haven't the faintest clue what we could do to really start, that would carry any merit, without putting lives on the line.

I'll put myself, in the line of fire, but not my mates.

I'm going to reach out to that author next week once I get home.

Right now this is just spit balling ideas, which is fine, because it needs to start somewhere and then a step be taken..

That will be a first, or rather second step, as I feel this thread is in many ways the first step.

One way or the other I will come back with something, even if a complete cold shoulder. Either way, it will help point to the next step.

I think this is more about keeping in motion rather than trying to figure everything out all at once.

 

[JazzyPaws]

I'm going to reach out to that author next week once I get home.

Right now this is just spit balling ideas, which is fine, because it needs to start somewhere and then a step be taken..

That will be a first, or rather second step, as I feel this thread is in many ways the first step.

One way or the other I will come back with something, even if a complete cold shoulder. Either way, it will help point to the next step.

I think this is more about keeping in motion rather than trying to figure everything out all at once.

I really admire your drive!

 

[K_9River_rat]

I really admire your drive!

Thanks! But again, to me, it really goes back to that whole thing of wishing/wanting versus doing....

If I do nothing or don't even try, then surely I can expect things not to change and can as certainly blame myself for that lack of change or whatnot because I cannot sit here and expect others to cater to my wants with no action of my own.

 

[JazzyPaws]

Thanks! But again, to me, it really goes back to that whole thing of wishing/wanting versus doing....

If I do nothing or don't even try, then surely I can expect things not to change and can as certainly blame myself for that lack of change or whatnot because I cannot sit here and expect others to cater to my wants with no action of my own.

That's an entirely fair stance to take. Some people are definitely do-ers. Damn my paranoia!

 

[K_9River_rat]

That's an entirely fair stance to take. Some people are definitely do-ers. Damn my paranoia!

The other thing comes down to fear.. Many are able to conquer their fear if someone is standing beside them.. So I'll stand up to be there next to the next one to stand up...

 

[JazzyPaws]

The other thing comes down to fear.. Many are able to conquer their fear if someone is standing beside them.. So I'll stand up to be there next to the next one to stand up...

I definitely hear you there, having others stand together would definitely be of a help. I also just don't know what I can do. Research, I love, but at my own discretion and pace, my desire for knowledge is a random thing, which is why it's so scattered. I'm more useful at functional, give me a problem and a toolbox, and ill make a solution, type of person.

 

[K_9River_rat]

I definitely hear you there, having others stand together would definitely be of a help. I also just don't know what I can do. Research, I love, but at my own discretion and pace, my desire for knowledge is a random thing, which is why it's so scattered. I'm more useful at functional, give me a problem and a toolbox, and ill make a solution, type of person.

At this stage, I think it's more about "want" to than anything.

Next step may just be compiling every single thing we can find into a central location. DB anyone?

Who knows what may come of reaching out to that author.

At the very least, she may have piles of that stuff laying around.

Step after that may be reaching out to researchers that are still alive that did that work and maybe getting a list of names of PhD types that might be willing to talk that may know another name of someone willing to take a look and brainstorm what this could entail...

Who knows?

Maybe it will be dead end after dead end, and I'm sure there will be plenty of those, but even if we have a pile of research handy for the next zoo that gets nabbed, that's still something, even if it doesn't make for a successful defense. At that point it would become a matter of record in case law for someone else to find through other means than here.

 

[JazzyPaws]

I mean DB is my thing.. I do appsheet dev too

 

[K_9River_rat]

I mean DB is my thing.. I do appsheet dev too

What's the possibility of a DB that's low to no cost that would work across a distance like this?

It's been nearly 20 years since I played with Access, and I know even then there were better web friendly things out there, although never got to mess with any.

DB may be a bit overkill for this though, but then again I think you're much better qualified to answer that.

 

[JazzyPaws]

Appsheet uses its own DB or any other connected sheet system, The cost is $5 per month, per user for basic features that can handle most low user situations.

Or you stay in free, make it public, but then anyone will be able to load it if they get their hands on the appsheet link, without logging into their accounts.

Thats's one issue too, it requires linked accounts, MS, google, etc.

 

[JazzyPaws]

I should also point out you can also do the free version, and just create a shared google account, but you can only log 5 devices in at once to the same account.