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Why do people treat zoos like they are monsters?

Dr_Pepper

Tourist
When they themselves are totally okay with strapping a baby and cutting there babies dick upon birth and making them cry like crazy? (circumcision)
And putting dogs in cages all day long too
Cages are abuse.
It feels backwards on how Americans believe they're righteous when they commit the most war crimes known to man.
 
good question
i just... i just don't get it
holding other animals as being people too is rare thru history
it is not limited to any country, society, or whatever not just americans
there are some things that partly explain that shitty attitude, but... still... wtf?
1: religion - some religions are just dumb about this
2: "ick" even the non-religious let their ick factor override their reason and compassion
3: ???
 
I think that morals for the most part are subjective and of course the perspective of live and social settings play a huge part of it, so it could be this tribalistic mentality of this is bad because these people say it’s abuse. But after watching some there’s a difference, the same type to call it abuse is the same people who will flick their dog in the nose for barking or yell at them everyday for the most minuscule of reasons. Of course there will be abuse and sexual abuse of animals but there will also be abuse with “traditional” owners and not zoos. It’s complex but I think people chalk it up to cp where the mind isn’t fully developed and they don’t know what they’re doing but I don’t think animals need to know societal norms to function, yes there are holes in my statement but I don’t wanna take an hr to write…
 
Two reasons come to mind: Leviticus, and Informed Consent. The Abrahamic religions have this hang-up about "sexual purity". As for consent, people believe that nonhuman animals are unable to give consent because they can't speak.
Religion is whatever. As for consent? I dare anyone to initiate relations with a wolf bitch if she isn't in the mood.
 
Two reasons come to mind: Leviticus, and Informed Consent. The Abrahamic religions have this hang-up about "sexual purity". As for consent, people believe that nonhuman animals are unable to give consent because they can't speak.
Religion is whatever. As for consent? I dare anyone to initiate relations with a wolf bitch if she isn't in the mood.
Eyup! So true dis right here. There is also the whole, "that is so icky or gross" crowd that have no real reason except they just do not like it thus they frown upon us and seek to ban it. I got in a massive argument years ago with someone in this category for this very reason. They could not give any definitive defense for their position except in their exact words "It was just so icky therefore it had to be wrong." Hum so does that mean everything anyone finds icky is wrong and should be made illegal and therefore ban it? Simply being icky is no legit reason for anything.
 
They same reason some of us here still have internal struggles between the life we love, the lives we live with our our family and friends, and our religious beliefs. The three do not always mix so well.
 
Because they don't understand it. And society doesn't understand something, they normally have some misconceived idea about what kind of person they are and what they do. They group everyone together with people who are sexually aggressive and abusive with those who aren't because it's "easier that way".

Just because something is gross to you, and it isn't to someone else, doesn't mean they're disgusting human being and should be shunned from society. I'm not into pee or poo porn. I think it's gross, but I don't think those who are into it shouldn't be permitted to be in society or shouldn't practice their porn with willing participants. Same thing with animal porn. If the animal is willing, and shows they're willing, then why is that so bad? Imagine being a creature that wants sex but is unable to masturbate and their owners prevent them from having sex or being satisfied. Isn't that abuse?

Uhg, it's whatev. I think society as a whole is terrible. Full of judgmental fucks.
 
Just because something is gross to you, and it isn't to someone else, .
that line reminded me for my first psychology teacher. He had a way of simplifying thing.

”remember when the idea of holding hands was gross?
”remember when the thought of kissing someone was gross?
”if anyone here has ever participate in anal sex, remember when it was gross?
”remember when playing in mud was gross? Ahh got you there, it was normal as a kid, gross as an adult.”

“you see, as we grow things that were once gross become normal, things we thought were normal, we have grown to think are gross. it is all perception of the mind.”
 
that line reminded me for my first psychology teacher. He had a way of simplifying thing.

”remember when the idea of holding hands was gross?
”remember when the thought of kissing someone was gross?
”if anyone here has ever participate in anal sex, remember when it was gross?
”remember when playing in mud was gross? Ahh got you there, it was normal as a kid, gross as an adult.”

“you see, as we grow things that were once gross become normal, things we thought were normal, we have grown to think are gross. it is all perception of the mind.”
And people are also deceived by society when they're told to hate certain races, sexualities, genders.
 
It's been my experience that the haters fall into two camps:

The first are generally well meaning, but misguided, they really care about the welfare of animals and think all zoos are evil animal abusers that tie innocent animals down and rape them against their will. Basically they are unable to see the difference animal abusers and people who love animals to such a degree that it becomes sexual.

The second group are those that hate EVERYBODY that doesn't conform to their religious or moral view of what is "correct". Basically, they hate anybody that is not a monogomous heterosexual. Yes, they hate zoos, but they also hate gays, bisexuals, transexuals, swingers, furries etc.

The difference is sometimes you can actually have a productive conversation with the first group, the second group there is no point in even bothering with.
 
It's been my experience that the haters fall into two camps:
I think that over generalizes it, a lot!

I know lgbtqia++ people who think beast is worst thing anyone can do (they would fall in neither of those categories)

i know people who support lgbtqia++ but loath the idea of beast.
-in fact you will find more people open to a lot of sexualities but lump beast and pedo in same group.

and just look at the people in this site:
Some here are pro-dog and anti any other animal
some are pro-dog and human female but think human males and animals is wrong
Some here are pro male on female, but strictly against any male on male
 
It is the christian influence in society and the absolute hypocrisy of their desire to tell others how to live their lives while doing things they know they are not suppose to. Same reason many cultures wear clothing when it makes no sense too in their climate. If you look at ancient cultures their was a respected, rich culture of folks being allowed to love their animal partners unconditionally. It is seen in art and sculpture. Even God gave humans unfettered free will on this plant. It was humans overwhelming desire to continually butt in that screwed it all up.
 
that line reminded me for my first psychology teacher. He had a way of simplifying thing.

”remember when the idea of holding hands was gross?
”remember when the thought of kissing someone was gross?
”if anyone here has ever participate in anal sex, remember when it was gross?
remember when playing in mud was gross? Ahh got you there, it was normal as a kid, gross as an adult.”

“you see, as we grow things that were once gross become normal, things we thought were normal, we have grown to think are gross. it is all perception of the mind.”
Still do!

Now it is just day to day work.
 
Well, in our society there are things that are considered normal and things that are not. And sometimes there is a good reason for that - a long history that proven that some things are indeed good. But there are also things that are somehow random and there is not much reason for them. For example there are many different cultures all around the world and some of them consider normal something that other cultures don't.

For example it's normal to blow your nose in US and Europe, but it's rude in Japan.

Nothing's wrong with these two categories. The problem is that these categories don't have a fair position. If something is normal, people will defend it even if you bring many valid arguments why it's harmful or bad. And if it's something considered abnormal, then people will fight against it even if there are many arguments why it might be a good thing.

So, a trapping of animals is more or less normal, so many people will probably ignore arguments that it's painful for animals to have their bones broken. An insemination is normal, so if you tell them this is happening in industry, they just shrug and move on. Fishing is probably not the most enjoyable experience for fish, but it's normal, so no one really cares aside of vegans. And so on an so on.

But having sex with animals is NOT normal, so people will get insane and call you an animal abuser, even if you just masturbate a dog.

And it's not even about animals actually. People pretend they care about them and they are against zoophilia because it's "an animal abuse" but deep down, they are just defending status quo, because of their status quo bias and peer-pressure.
 
Gays used to be treated badly too. It's only a matter of time before society becomes more tolerant and understanding.
 
I really don't understand, theres also a lot of people who despise it because they seay we are "abusing them" when they are the ones that treat their dogs really badly :(
 
You could easily write a 100 page essay on this topic. Religion doesn't fully cover it, since non-abrahamists and atheists mostly still hold the same vitriol as everyone else does. It's helpful to listen to what reasons the haters have to raise about it themselves, since it's easy to extrapolate from there. Some commonly encountered reasons:

"It's revolting" <- acquired reflexive behavior towards an act the society already deems unacceptable, essentially a circular, self-reinforcing taboo enforced by peer pressure; individuals typically consider the matter "settled" (since they don't hear of anybody questioning it - well no wonder, when the media they listen to are censoring it to begin with) and are hostile towards people trying to question it because "Pandora's box" or whatever.
"It's abuse" <- well, we have to admit that real abuse does exist, but this is about the cases where it's applied on a blanket basis. The general negative image of zoos perpetrated in media and in science carries the biggest blame for this. It's essentially an appeal to science; science (or rather, pop-sci) is what perpetuates the stereotypical imagery of animal behavior that many people clueless about animals subsequently adopt. Hence the people who resort to this most eagerly are be the "socially conscious" highly urbanized college Starbucks types. The follies of modern science practice become extremely apparent once this point gets further dissected in depth, but that's a tale for another time.
"It's sick/Only sick and dangerous people would do it" <- much like above, but the focus is shifted on media image rather than science. And also poor understanding of psychology and psychiatry - which might be one of the most socially destructive forces in the world today in general. Again there's a conformist element to it, but this time it's a peer applying pressure to an outsider and trying to absorb him into the group. Something to specifically highlight here is the cursed label itself: "zoophilia". Note that in normalspeak, the suffix "-philia" already became colloquially understood as a shorthand for "sick fuck". Thus a key step to dispelling the stigma will be to rebrand zoophilia under a new name without the negative history of centuries of media systematically crusading against it (for ultimately unrelated reasons).
"It's unnatural" <- usually uttered by not very bright people who also drive a fully natural car and own a cat raised on fully natural processed kibble.
"It debases the animal/humanity" <- the former is weird in general, and probably arises from some esoteric, magical perception of nature to begin with; the person would probably reveal themselves as rather loony by society's standards as well if further probed about the matter (think "crystals and chakras"). The latter is classic human exceptionalism in practice, though it begs the question why the "superior omnipotent human" should restrict himself from exercising his "dominant power" over his "inferiors" (this is sensitive ground; bad handling of this might end up inadvertently apologizing genuine abuse).
"It's primitive" <- a point probably reserved mostly for developing countries; zoophilia perceived as a symbolic act of socioeconomic failure. Rich and mighty westerners have outlawed it; rich and mighty westerners are rich; hence we should follow western mores to the letter and we'll be rich too, justification be damned. But even in countries like Japan, anti-zoo sentiment seems to correlate with the level of westernization of their society. Zoophilia is an act with extremely bad PR on an international scale (since economically relevant countries are mostly ensnared by the above points), and thus many people will want to sweep it under the rug just to not look like an indecent country.


I'd say the main problem of all these is that people in general have become too urbanized and too detached from the reality of interacting with animals. They are, in short, stupid about animals. They have a dog and suddenly they are Dunning Kruger experts on what a cow behaves like as well, and then they apply the same myopic set of morals to the entire animal kingdom simultaneously. But weirdly, rural folk tend to be stupid about animals as well, if they only perceive them as a money machine and never bother interacting with them in their off hours. If you take your donkey for granted and don't cherish him, if you only see him as a meat tractor, you keep overworking him, keep him in poor conditions, never check on him unless he's lying stiff, then no wonder you think he's just a dumb beast of burden incapable of and unworthy of love and affection.
 
You could easily write a 100 page essay on this topic. Religion doesn't fully cover it, since non-abrahamists and atheists mostly still hold the same vitriol as everyone else does. It's helpful to listen to what reasons the haters have to raise about it themselves, since it's easy to extrapolate from there. Some commonly encountered reasons:

"It's revolting" <- acquired reflexive behavior towards an act the society already deems unacceptable, essentially a circular, self-reinforcing taboo enforced by peer pressure; individuals typically consider the matter "settled" (since they don't hear of anybody questioning it - well no wonder, when the media they listen to are censoring it to begin with) and are hostile towards people trying to question it because "Pandora's box" or whatever.
"It's abuse" <- well, we have to admit that real abuse does exist, but this is about the cases where it's applied on a blanket basis. The general negative image of zoos perpetrated in media and in science carries the biggest blame for this. It's essentially an appeal to science; science (or rather, pop-sci) is what perpetuates the stereotypical imagery of animal behavior that many people clueless about animals subsequently adopt. Hence the people who resort to this most eagerly are be the "socially conscious" highly urbanized college Starbucks types. The follies of modern science practice become extremely apparent once this point gets further dissected in depth, but that's a tale for another time.
"It's sick/Only sick and dangerous people would do it" <- much like above, but the focus is shifted on media image rather than science. And also poor understanding of psychology and psychiatry - which might be one of the most socially destructive forces in the world today in general. Again there's a conformist element to it, but this time it's a peer applying pressure to an outsider and trying to absorb him into the group. Something to specifically highlight here is the cursed label itself: "zoophilia". Note that in normalspeak, the suffix "-philia" already became colloquially understood as a shorthand for "sick fuck". Thus a key step to dispelling the stigma will be to rebrand zoophilia under a new name without the negative history of centuries of media systematically crusading against it (for ultimately unrelated reasons).
"It's unnatural" <- usually uttered by not very bright people who also drive a fully natural car and own a cat raised on fully natural processed kibble.
"It debases the animal/humanity" <- the former is weird in general, and probably arises from some esoteric, magical perception of nature to begin with; the person would probably reveal themselves as rather loony by society's standards as well if further probed about the matter (think "crystals and chakras"). The latter is classic human exceptionalism in practice, though it begs the question why the "superior omnipotent human" should restrict himself from exercising his "dominant power" over his "inferiors" (this is sensitive ground; bad handling of this might end up inadvertently apologizing genuine abuse).
"It's primitive" <- a point probably reserved mostly for developing countries; zoophilia perceived as a symbolic act of socioeconomic failure. Rich and mighty westerners have outlawed it; rich and mighty westerners are rich; hence we should follow western mores to the letter and we'll be rich too, justification be damned. But even in countries like Japan, anti-zoo sentiment seems to correlate with the level of westernization of their society. Zoophilia is an act with extremely bad PR on an international scale (since economically relevant countries are mostly ensnared by the above points), and thus many people will want to sweep it under the rug just to not look like an indecent country.


I'd say the main problem of all these is that people in general have become too urbanized and too detached from the reality of interacting with animals. They are, in short, stupid about animals. They have a dog and suddenly they are Dunning Kruger experts on what a cow behaves like as well, and then they apply the same myopic set of morals to the entire animal kingdom simultaneously. But weirdly, rural folk tend to be stupid about animals as well, if they only perceive them as a money machine and never bother interacting with them in their off hours. If you take your donkey for granted and don't cherish him, if you only see him as a meat tractor, you keep overworking him, keep him in poor conditions, never check on him unless he's lying stiff, then no wonder you think he's just a dumb beast of burden incapable of and unworthy of love and affection.
Well said! 👍
 
Let's not forget something... it's also fairly common (at least as fantasy), but so taboo as to be unmentionable.

This famous erotica book from '77 included all measure of "taboo" subjects (our favorite, as well as several that are prohibited and unmentionable on this forum), was widely distributed and available at your nearest B.Dalton:


1.png2.png3.png
4.png

Things become taboo because they actually have appeal for some, but society deigns said practices (and the fans thereof) to be inappropriate.
 
I really don't understand, theres also a lot of people who despise it because they seay we are "abusing them" when they are the ones that treat their dogs really badly :(
Those so-called animalist are actually disguized virtue leagues who try to impose their moral to free people. How could be an abuser a woman who gets on all four to offer her dog the bitch in heat he can't find in the neighbourhood ? The abuse is to deprive a dog its sexual satisfaction, to mutilate him or so.
 
I think many of the anti-zoo opinions are formed in gurpp thinking when you then ask about why he she thinks the way they do
then they always come back to what they think others think.
 
A lot of people are just disgusting violent pieces of shit that lack one thing... an excuse.

The moment they see you as an "other" for any reason, they turn on you and would absolutely kill you if they could do so without reprisal.

You can be brown, you can be black, you can be genetically sub-optimal, you can fuck the wrong partner, you can simply wear the wrong clothes... it doesn't matter. They're all looking for something to label you an "other" with so they can feel better about their pathetic shit stained souls.

Most ppl are absolute trash looking to feel better by trashing others.
 
A lot of people are just disgusting violent pieces of shit that lack one thing... an excuse.

The moment they see you as an "other" for any reason, they turn on you and would absolutely kill you if they could do so without reprisal.

You can be brown, you can be black, you can be genetically sub-optimal, you can fuck the wrong partner, you can simply wear the wrong clothes... it doesn't matter. They're all looking for something to label you an "other" with so they can feel better about their pathetic shit stained souls.

Most ppl are absolute trash looking to feel better by trashing others.
True. Xenophobia is a deep-rooted instinct in most animals.
 
I think it doesn’t help also that there’s a lot of bad apples out there. It’s typically those bad apples that get seen by society whereas those of us who actually are true zoophiles and truly care about our companions take better care to remain secret. People tend to think of an animal in duress instead of an animal partaking in an action of love and passion. Most people seem to hate anytime their animal shows any kind of sexuality and often scold their animals for it. As though being a sexual being is inherently wrong for their pets. Most people will have pets that will go their entire lives without ever having any kind of sexual contact. So I imagine many people don’t even think that their animals enjoy sex or want sex. So they can’t possibly conceive of their animal consenting.

But I think the simplest answer is, “people big stupid.”
 
I guess the problem itself is very old. Basically zoo is competition to the human breeding and therefore potential damage to the species. Thats most likely also the cause for religious beliefs. If you look closer where zoo is seen as additional satisfaction or exercise for young people, it is tolerated. Still seen as pathetic but yeah. Especially in communities where theres no sex before marriage. In the western world tho there has always been things like prostitution so there was no need for auxillary methods.
 
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