Gunslinger1X
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
You just sent several people into therapy
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The Zeta Chronicles - A pro-active comic for the zoo community
- Thread starter ZTHorse
- Start date
Bloodwolf
Dumpster Diver
The last place you want anything.?
Prepare for the bed wetting wash out in less then a week.
jjponyboy
Tourist
I'm not the biggest fan of this, but there's some criticisms that I don't understand.
"It will draw attention to the site, I worry for my privacy"
Outside of the porn threads, much of this forum is already accessible to the public. You do not have to be logged in to browse and read the threads, or even use the search function. The site is indexed by Google and other search engines, just typing in 'zoov' shows it as the first suggestion (I don't use Google nor do I visit anything zoo related on my PC, and I still had this result). There are already dedicated antis on twitter that lurk here and post screenshots. I don't see this comic doing any more damage than any general lack of infosec in your own actions already would have done. As for law enforcement, if they were interested, they'd probably already be here. Like I've said, this site isn't secret, and there's already plenty of things that would lead them here. I doubt some advocacy comic would be the giveaway.
"But donor money, they should have a say in how the money is spent"
... I don't see any complaints from any actual financial contributors in this thread. I'm not saying they don't exist, we have no way of knowing that right now. But if they were pissed off about it, I'd expect to hear it, I know I'd be pretty vocal if I felt money I donated was being misused. Arguing this point just seems kinda dumb.
I will say that there is a point to be said about consulting the community. While the forward states "wholly funded by [...] the worldwide zoophile community."
That feels a little misleading. It sounds like you are actually speaking on behalf of all of us (somehow), that this is a larger community collaboration than it actually is. If this were indeed your intention, then yeah, larger community input would be expected imo. The truth is that this comic is funded by the donators to a single English language website (there are non-English boards here, but they are tiny in comparison). Zooville is not the entire worldwide zoophile community, it is a zoophile community, one of many. It is definitely one of the largest and most influential English language zoo sites. I understand that that one part was intended to explain the funding, but I just feel that it may seem to mean more than that.
If one were desiring a more collaborative form of spreading pro-zoo propaganda (I do not use that word derogatorily), I would probably recommend making zines, having people contribute pieces on what zoophilia means to them, the things they would find important to include on a page or two. The format allowing for diversity of opinion, not claiming to speak for anyone beyond who contributed what, and inherently being limited to the time and effort of each contributor. These could easily be shared, anyone could print copies if they so desired, spread however anyone thought useful (or safe).
"It will draw attention to the site, I worry for my privacy"
Outside of the porn threads, much of this forum is already accessible to the public. You do not have to be logged in to browse and read the threads, or even use the search function. The site is indexed by Google and other search engines, just typing in 'zoov' shows it as the first suggestion (I don't use Google nor do I visit anything zoo related on my PC, and I still had this result). There are already dedicated antis on twitter that lurk here and post screenshots. I don't see this comic doing any more damage than any general lack of infosec in your own actions already would have done. As for law enforcement, if they were interested, they'd probably already be here. Like I've said, this site isn't secret, and there's already plenty of things that would lead them here. I doubt some advocacy comic would be the giveaway.
"But donor money, they should have a say in how the money is spent"
... I don't see any complaints from any actual financial contributors in this thread. I'm not saying they don't exist, we have no way of knowing that right now. But if they were pissed off about it, I'd expect to hear it, I know I'd be pretty vocal if I felt money I donated was being misused. Arguing this point just seems kinda dumb.
I will say that there is a point to be said about consulting the community. While the forward states "wholly funded by [...] the worldwide zoophile community."
That feels a little misleading. It sounds like you are actually speaking on behalf of all of us (somehow), that this is a larger community collaboration than it actually is. If this were indeed your intention, then yeah, larger community input would be expected imo. The truth is that this comic is funded by the donators to a single English language website (there are non-English boards here, but they are tiny in comparison). Zooville is not the entire worldwide zoophile community, it is a zoophile community, one of many. It is definitely one of the largest and most influential English language zoo sites. I understand that that one part was intended to explain the funding, but I just feel that it may seem to mean more than that.
If one were desiring a more collaborative form of spreading pro-zoo propaganda (I do not use that word derogatorily), I would probably recommend making zines, having people contribute pieces on what zoophilia means to them, the things they would find important to include on a page or two. The format allowing for diversity of opinion, not claiming to speak for anyone beyond who contributed what, and inherently being limited to the time and effort of each contributor. These could easily be shared, anyone could print copies if they so desired, spread however anyone thought useful (or safe).
Reconscope
Prized Citizen of ZV
All that really matters is the message being sent. As long as it's a positive one to our group even if rejected we at least have our best interests at heart that separates from the rest.
I looked it up just now. Its Zooville USA. not a forum site. Instead a organization
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UR20Z
Dumpster Diver
The problem isn't exposing *THE SITE*. That's hopelessly exposed, and anybody who thinks otherwise isn't firing on all mental cylinders. The problem is the "HEY! LOOK! THERE REALLY IS SUCH A THING AS ANIMAL FUCKERS!" effect on John Q. Public, who, although he generally knows that animal fuckers exist, tends to file even the idea under the heading "out of sight, out of mind", and when he thinks of us at all, it's usually in terms of the punchline of a joke. When he can ignore us/forget we exist/consider us a joke, he most often does/says nothing that means anything. He might mutter in his beard, or grumble over his beer to a buddy, or toss out the occasional "Why do Irishmen wear kilts? 'Cause a Scotsman can hear a zipper at 60 paces. Why do Scotsmen wear kilts? 'Cause a sheep can hear a zipper at 600 paces" grade joke, but aside from that, he doesn't put much, if any, thought into the concept, and most generally takes no action against us. When our existence gets rubbed in his face, he tends to start going apeshit, and bad things start happening to us and/or our critters as a result.
Valid critique that is useful.
The greater zoo community I cannot obviously speak to thousands and thousands of zoos on a collaboration. Somewhat like governments, you end up speak with representatives across other platforms. In this fashion, i have reached out with other zoo community owners and leaders about this comic, and feel comfortable saying its a worldwide effort. Also not to mention, the funding itself comes from zoos across many nations.
There is even a zoo who will do a russian translation of the comic as its released. Other languages will be coming too in the end.
The story, Im not a huge contributor to the writing, only to the concept of the comic and even finding a competent writer was difficult
Also its quite more difficult than you'd believe to find artists willing to work on such a controversial topic and at a reasonable rate. If your a big artist in the furry world, you have too much risk involved and money to make doing other comissions. Its a difficult feat to achieve.
However i accept the criticism about not mentioning the comic publically, but as you can see, there is great resistence and hesitency amoung zoos about positive influences and what i could say are "wholesome" out-reachings like this to the general public.
For that, i will open this chance now for the greater zoo community, if you have a project or want to contribute to future zooey comics or artwork, you can PM me @ZTHorse.
We need writers, colorists, typists, and artists to further tell stories and truths to combat the misinformation in a easy to digest format.
Afterall, thats what art is for. A message in a paintbrush.
Reconscope
Prized Citizen of ZV
Ohhh thats why your asking for talent on the forum a while ago. Its to help with this big release
PurpleLust
Lurker
Jeah, whatever part of the internet will pick it up first will label this grooming and flood the site. Calling it now, anyone wanna make a betting pool?
The money could be used to open up a new site once it comes down to it.
The money could be used to open up a new site once it comes down to it.
Gunslinger1X
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
4Chan will have a field day with it
nekdoneco123
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
care to elaborate a little? i can understand the "owners" part (i mean, someone has to own the sites... how it gives any right to said owner to say what's best for everyone is a different issue), but "leaders"? i kinda missed "we" even have a "leadership", but i assume you appointed yourself to that role despite your almost non-existent presence here?
Gunslinger1X
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
nekdoneco123
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
feels like it's two to four ppl (like that togglewhateverperson with like 7 posts here, who only ever comes to zthorse's defense) who just decided they lead "us" without "us" knowing.... i seem to have missed any election. well, even any discussion about leadership... or attempt at trying to be a coherent group.
Gunslinger1X
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Those people are more interested in themselves than the community. For them it's if they're being put on a pedestal so they can claim a "first"
Self absorbed and narcissistic personalities often act to prop up their own personal feelings, ratger than for the greater good
UR20Z
Dumpster Diver
You didn't miss anything - Historically speaking, "Zoo savior" is a self-appointed office with a term-limit of "Until I get reamed", and no elections or debates permitted.
nekdoneco123
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
i'm also puzzled about how none of these "saviours" have basically any presence on the very forum of ppl they seem to think they're leading... and i don't mean like posting porn, but just being a part of the "community". i browse this forum more or less daily since i joined and i think i have more of an idea of who you are than any of them.
Bloodwolf
Dumpster Diver
It’s your typical which burn. Once one melts the rest scatter.
UR20Z
Dumpster Diver
Probably has to do with the fact that I'm a loud, obnoxious, opinionated asshole with little or no filter when it comes to dumping reality on the heads of idiots. Others operate more "on the sneak". Which do you think folks actually notice?
nekdoneco123
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
your general "crudeness" aside (you are probably older than an average crude oil deposit so it makes sense i think) i was more on about how you're actually a visible part of this "community".. you join random discussions, share your opinions etc so there are some clues and hints of what you might be like as a person. in the meantime, no response from the "leadership"... which i think consist of multiple ppl? most if not all of whom "we" don't get to even see being a regular part of whatever this is. and yet they believe they get to speak for "us"?Probably has to do with the fact that I'm a loud, obnoxious, opinionated asshole with little or no filter when it comes to dumping reality on the heads of idiots. Others operate more "on the sneak". Which do you think folks actually notice?
ADreamOfLiberty
ZooVille Philanthropist
The voice of reason
One might imagine asking for permission would be better than waiting for complaints but on the other hand a huge amount of money goes through this site: http://blkchairbknpn73cfjhevhla7rkp...ss/qrkq3768cryun7ulra2d5zpp0g6crrs3q5x88rd8hs
It's hard to imagine commissioning one comic represents a significant expenditure (then again corruption breeds absurdity).
Sounds like a good idea to me, but the problem would be deciding what makes the cut. This website's forums are a record of what zoosexuals think but it won't fit on a flier.
A simpler explanation is that these "saviors" are a strawman you constructed and besides a very few, not including ZT and the author of this comic, no one describes themselves as such.Probably has to do with the fact that I'm a loud, obnoxious, opinionated asshole with little or no filter when it comes to dumping reality on the heads of idiots. Others operate more "on the sneak". Which do you think folks actually notice?
I haven't seen anyone tell you to do something. They are doing their own thing based on what they believe will make the world better. You think they're wrong, that doesn't mean they're trying to lead you. If anything that means you're trying to lead them.
nekdoneco123
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
it kinda stops being "their own thing" when it starts concerning "my thing", no?
Gunslinger1X
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
This statement implies otherwise
"In this fashion, i have reached out with other zoo community owners and leaders about this comic, and feel comfortable saying its a worldwide effort. Also not to mention, the funding itself comes from zoos across many nations."
UR20Z
Dumpster Diver
PHLLBBTTTT!
As to the rest, you're doing a good job of describing the typical autocratic elites who always seem to think they know what's best for the "lowly peons that are too dumb to know what's good for 'em". Boiled down, it comes to "We up here in the ivory tower are so much better (and/or better qualified) than those lowly scum we supervise that there's no point in our associating with them. Might get peon-cooties if we did, then where would we all be?"
I just wish they'd leave me the fuck out of the train-wreck that their so-called "leadership" is doomed to cause. Same as it has every damned time this sort of thing has been attempted, regardless of who was involved in making the particular attempt under discussion. Unfortunately, their foolishness has no option but to cause "splash damage" to me and mine. Same as you can't really "aim" napalm much finer than "send it in the general direction of what you mean to hit", the flying wreckage that's all-but-guaranteed to come of this project can't be directed much closer than "I hope it doesn't do too much damage".
ADreamOfLiberty
ZooVille Philanthropist
No.
That is a common misconception which has been used to justify a lot of nasty. People have a right to do what they want so long as it doesn't violate other people's rights. That postulation has only one solution, and it isn't "I can do anything as long as it doesn't have any effect whatsoever on anything anyone else is concerned with".
If your neighbor starts farming a field and you decide that you liked the field better the other way that doesn't make their crops "your thing". Being affected isn't necessarily a violation of your rights, and you don't have a right to a world where nobody is consciously aware of zoosexuality. If you had been threatened to sign at the bottom of that comic or pay for it that would be a violation of your rights.
That statement could very well be objectively true. If it is there is no valid complaint. Scope is often omitted and it's bad faith to read "people like chocolate" as "all persons like chocolate" rather than "most persons like chocolate"
Clearly ZT didn't reach out to UR20Z, he (ZT) didn't ask UR20Z to do anything, he (ZT) didn't call himself or anyone else a savior.
If ZT actually thought he spoke for every single zoo including UR20Z it would be ZT coming after UR20Z for reneging or disloyalty. Instead it's UR20Z and you and several others going after ZT for doing something you don't agree with. You act as if ZT reports to you.
You're allowed to disagree but don't call it murder when it isn't.
saddlebum66
Supreme Citizen of ZV
"it's bad faith to read "people like chocolate" as "all persons like chocolate" rather than "most persons like chocolate"?
Its also 'Bad Faith' to act on behalf of people without their consent, present them with a 'fait accompli', or to claim to speak for them. The damage from me getting jailed for a non-payment of traffic fines affects only me. The damage from effectively outting everyone onsite is a considerably different proposition. I dont care where the money comes from. If large amounts are cycled through this site, its going to create, if it has not created, an interest on the part of authorities eventually. THAT is a problem...for every single one of us. The top end boys can probably go underground if the trick goes bad. The rest of us will take the hit for actions we were not asked about, did not approve or volunteer to march for.
For a LOT of years, sites such as this one, and its membership, stressed that each of us must be our own security, because the Net doesnt allow for " take-backs"...once its out there it STAYS out there. We all pretty much know and accept that. But NOW, we have people at the top telling us...."Ohhh, its okay....WE have your backs".
Untill bullshit becomes lighter than air, that ain't gonna fly, folks. Trust is an issue. In this world, nothing slips between the cracks. Court cases result in FELONY convictions when this is the topic. You are asking us to have faith in something thats hard to imagine repaying that faith. And Twitter? Even without the Donz, that place is toxic for "different". I dont know where you all bought the Shades, but they're about five levels too dark for anything but Welding. Take them off and look at the REAL WORLD for a little while. The lunatic fringe has been normalized and we aren't their kind
Its also 'Bad Faith' to act on behalf of people without their consent, present them with a 'fait accompli', or to claim to speak for them. The damage from me getting jailed for a non-payment of traffic fines affects only me. The damage from effectively outting everyone onsite is a considerably different proposition. I dont care where the money comes from. If large amounts are cycled through this site, its going to create, if it has not created, an interest on the part of authorities eventually. THAT is a problem...for every single one of us. The top end boys can probably go underground if the trick goes bad. The rest of us will take the hit for actions we were not asked about, did not approve or volunteer to march for.
For a LOT of years, sites such as this one, and its membership, stressed that each of us must be our own security, because the Net doesnt allow for " take-backs"...once its out there it STAYS out there. We all pretty much know and accept that. But NOW, we have people at the top telling us...."Ohhh, its okay....WE have your backs".
Untill bullshit becomes lighter than air, that ain't gonna fly, folks. Trust is an issue. In this world, nothing slips between the cracks. Court cases result in FELONY convictions when this is the topic. You are asking us to have faith in something thats hard to imagine repaying that faith. And Twitter? Even without the Donz, that place is toxic for "different". I dont know where you all bought the Shades, but they're about five levels too dark for anything but Welding. Take them off and look at the REAL WORLD for a little while. The lunatic fringe has been normalized and we aren't their kind
ADreamOfLiberty
ZooVille Philanthropist
It beggars belief that no one has reported this site to someone. It's not a ninja, it's not a nuclear sub, it's a public website which almost all of us found with a search engine.
I don't know how its hosted and I don't know the layers of security but if it was a simple as that it wouldn't be here anymore. In the strongest possible case it is primarily hosted somewhere zoo porn is legal, in which case no court orders could materialize and without court orders even the owners can stay anonymous.
There are a lot of feasible concerns none of which are rationally addressed by presuming that no anti-zoo has ever seen this website and pretending to continue this supposed stealth as a matter of life and death.
Concerned about IPs? That's very legitimate, use Tor. If you aren't using Tor your ISP would have absolutely no problem compiling a list of "nasty deviant" IPs and recording everyone who sends a packet to any one of them.
That will never stop and people looking to use those as excuses wouldn't care if it did. How many homosexuals kidnap and rape children? Not many, that didn't stop that being used as a rhetorical weapon.
It is certainly a bad time. War is coming I believe. Then again talking about the general state of humanity is a sign of the unwarranted grandiosity of this discussion. It's a comic. It took no blood sacrifices to make and it won't kill anyone if it doesn't become the new bible.
We are a small and reviled minority. We have almost no ability to affect the world. It's a hard thing to live with. I don't begrudge anyone their attempts. It may be that it makes a splash large enough for us to learn something useful.
Gunslinger1X
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Those "splashes" HAVE historically taught us plenty, usually in the form of whitch hunts or new laws specifically targeting us. The problem is people like ZT DIDN'T learn a damn thing from those lessons
HugDoggy
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
When will the whole thing be released, I'm only seeing 3 pages so far.
I am trying to not judge till seeing it in it's entirety, but given on the first page the fox seems to refer to zoophiles as filthy people or those doing filthy acts, that really seems to be starting out negatively. If your trying to convince someone of something being acceptable then you start from a neutral base. As any good reporter should do if trying to learn about and report on something they don't understand.
The next two pages seemed to be more about the imposing nature of a tall stallion and the grandure of the buildings with its views of the city making it seem like city hall was an ivory tower. I'm not really sure how this aids the story. I know it's set in the future but I would think just as many zoos in that time as now, would be living in rural areas as in a shiny city. So at the moment I'm feeling a bit blah about what I've seen so far. If the city is a euphemism for this site, I'm sorry I don't see the place as a shining example of zoo culture. There is still far to much abusive animal porn on here to be any sort of shining beaken to anyone of more purist zoo values. ie: the zeta principles.
I am trying to not judge till seeing it in it's entirety, but given on the first page the fox seems to refer to zoophiles as filthy people or those doing filthy acts, that really seems to be starting out negatively. If your trying to convince someone of something being acceptable then you start from a neutral base. As any good reporter should do if trying to learn about and report on something they don't understand.
The next two pages seemed to be more about the imposing nature of a tall stallion and the grandure of the buildings with its views of the city making it seem like city hall was an ivory tower. I'm not really sure how this aids the story. I know it's set in the future but I would think just as many zoos in that time as now, would be living in rural areas as in a shiny city. So at the moment I'm feeling a bit blah about what I've seen so far. If the city is a euphemism for this site, I'm sorry I don't see the place as a shining example of zoo culture. There is still far to much abusive animal porn on here to be any sort of shining beaken to anyone of more purist zoo values. ie: the zeta principles.
ADreamOfLiberty
ZooVille Philanthropist
Yes I've heard it all before but our reputation cannot be simultaneously as bad as possible and subject to worsening. Sometimes any publicity is good publicity. Please do spare me the speech about lost animals and lost lives, I've heard that before too and responded to it before. There is a bit of a disconnect when I say things like "use Tor" and you don't care that there are clear and already necessary measures which protect people from witch hunts real or imagined.
There are witch hunts now. There are zoo activists on twitter now. There have been people who posted on this forum outed for going to furcons. All the suffering you predict should already be inevitable. So if you want to protect people use the same energy you have to rail against activists to remind everyone to build and maintain a reliable wall of anonymity.
If I had to put your attitude to analogy I would say you're someone who derides and denounces sailors for not sacrificing to Poseidon, warning them that if they persist in offending the god the sea will turn stormy and their unseaworthy boat will be destroyed. I am saying: Make the boat seaworthy, because storms will come regardless of your sacrifices. Focusing on the sacrifices could lead to a false sense of security. That would be bad.
It's a well established emotional trick to start off by implying the audience (your opposition) has a perfectly reasonable point of view. It prevents cognitive dissonance.
From a story perspective the protagonist is the character the audience/reader imagines themself as, they won't be able to do that unless they are similar enough at least in the start.
From a rational view it is slimy, but it's sound psychology.
saddlebum66
Supreme Citizen of ZV
That frikkin' boat is a tad small to float us all away, bub. So who will make the selections as to who gets chucked out? Because that, TOO, is inevitable. Our chance to make any gains in this passed 29 or so years ago, after the first full year of Mommy coming home, checking "History" and discovering what Little Bobby, and Littler Missy, with their hands in their dribbies and panting like locomotives were doing after school, instead of homework. We LOST....game over.
As Group, WE have little commonality. If we cannot find consensus, how do you see THAT happening in the Real world?
You really don't see ZT as "Hamlet", do you? A guy pictured as a seven foot tall cartoon Clydesdale? I doubt anyone else ever will....Clyde Shoes are Iron. Mundanes aren't ever going to walk in those....they like theirs a little softer.
As Group, WE have little commonality. If we cannot find consensus, how do you see THAT happening in the Real world?
You really don't see ZT as "Hamlet", do you? A guy pictured as a seven foot tall cartoon Clydesdale? I doubt anyone else ever will....Clyde Shoes are Iron. Mundanes aren't ever going to walk in those....they like theirs a little softer.
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TogglesHappyZoo is I think one of the producers of https://www.zoovilleforum.net/resources/zooier-than-thou.9/ podcast. I have heard one of their episodes. It did not seem that bad, but it exactly fits into the formula of reaching out to public. They originally posted on youtube I think from where they were deleted because I guess the public did not like it.