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The importance of organization

It would have to be a new version of the site. I lost the user/pass a long time ago. I should just copy it all while it's still up.

Maybe the admins here would allow it to be part of this site.
 
mares4me said:
Sorry, I have to worry about more important things than advocating for other zoos.
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Well, that is what our activists ought to focus on, then, trying to help create a community that you can actually believe in and care about. Activists, in the zoo community, have to concentrate on winning over other zoos, if anything, even more than trying to win over society at large.

There are lots of people that might masturbate their dogs or occasionally suck their dogs' dicks at home, and they are comfortable with the idea that nobody really needs to find out about this. Almost none of them are really inclined to come to a website like this one or watch podcasts or view or hear any zoo related media. They are too busy working full-time jobs and pursuing other hobbies that really have more meaning to them, under current conditions.

If we want to get those zoos interested, then we are going to have to produce a culture of our own that is actually authentically cool. For people to care about us enough to be willing to stick their necks out, we have to put something out there that people are willing to fight for.

@mares4me, thank you for your honesty, but I have every intention of us changing your mind.
 
SigmatoZeta said:
  1. They are talking about animal brothels, which self-respecting zoos hate
  2. They are talking about animal prostitution, which self-respecting zoos hate.
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1. does not exist
and 2. also doesnt exist on such a scale anyone should care about
 
Gigelina said:
1. does not exist
and 2. also doesnt exist on such a scale anyone should care about
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Regardless of whatever specifically is based on real journalism, any shock story at all gets a lot more attention than any activist. Whether it is actual horrifying animal abuse or made up balderdash, that is what is driving these new laws as social media makes it easier to disseminate.

Us activists are probably 30 years out from really being on most people's radar. If we are smart, then we will focus on developing the most viable inroads first before bursting out on the national stage.
 
SamSmith said:
This grows old so quickly. Just because you are alive does not mean you should have rights. *shrug* The way of the world but the kiddies these days do not see it that way. If people are indifferent, leave it at that, do not be forming marches just because you want to throw a fit.

Laws != (do not equal) Morals! Things are not getting worse. People have always had moral issues with zoos. They toss in a law here and a law their who cares. The public does not feel any different than they did. The only reason zoo is catching so much attention is because people are trying to organize and become big and at that point the states/governments say no and slap us with laws.
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I believe that the reason zoos are getting the attention of anti-zoo organizations like HSUS is because of the online activities zoos have been producing in recent years, not because of organizing / pro-zoo marches. HSUS stated that they were alarmed by "an online bestiality forum with more than one million members" (probably referring to the now-defunct Beast Forum). I do not believe the attention is coming from outspoken zoo activists (which there are very few of).

ZTHorse said:
We should fund academic studies at this point. We need to load legal ammo, get sexologists, animal behaviorlists etc in the next years before attempting to fight a court battle. Thats what id like to do and believe many zoos would donate to support that.
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It would help if authorities within the medical field classified zoosexuality as a sexual orientation (rather than a "philia", which is what it is right now). Right now, zoo as a sexual orientation is not recognized.

SigmatoZeta said:
Regardless of whatever specifically is based on real journalism, any shock story at all gets a lot more attention than any activist. Whether it is actual horrifying animal abuse or made up balderdash, that is what is driving these new laws as social media makes it easier to disseminate.

Us activists are probably 30 years out from really being on most people's radar. If we are smart, then we will focus on developing the most viable inroads first before bursting out on the national stage.
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One thing that needs to change is the kinds of words anti-zoos are using. For example, anti-zoo organizations call simple sex with animals "sexual exploitation". The ALDF (an anti-zoo organization) calls ALL sex with animals "sexual assault of an animal". These kinds of loaded, bigoted phrases need to be changed.
 
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ZTHorse said:
We should fund academic studies at this point. We need to load legal ammo, get sexologists, animal behaviorlists etc in the next years before attempting to fight a court battle. Thats what id like to do and believe many zoos would donate to support that.
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We already tried that years ago. We had zero official replies and one covert reply of the sort "yeah, you pose interesting questions, but the topic is so toxic, I would never find other work again."

I personally received seize-and-desists for merely translating older scientific studies of this field - The original authors changed their mind and wanted to see their own work buried in obscurity by time. So my simple translating it was a huge thorn in their flesh. (also greetings to Ponylove, if you are here, remember those times?)
 
pferdefreund said:
We already tried that years ago. We had zero official replies and one covert reply of the sort "yeah, you pose interesting questions, but the topic is so toxic, I would never find other work again."

I personally received seize-and-desists for merely translating older scientific studies of this field - The original authors changed their mind and wanted to see their own work buried in obscurity by time. So my simple translating it was a huge thorn in their flesh. (also greetings to Ponylove, if you are here, remember those times?)
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It takes a tremendous amount of organizational strength to muscle your way through such societal prejudice and legal obstructions. Believe me that the LGBT community did not get the same privileges handed to them on a silver platter. It takes considerable social visibility and organizational strength in spite of those things in order to get anything done. This is going to take a generation or maybe even two. We need to get local zoo organizations active and eventually vocal.
 
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