The breeder dilemma

[Ebonstar]

So, I've begun looking into finding a breeder for getting a puppy. But I've quickly discovered that this is not as easy as it sounds.

The problem seems to be some kind of weird catch-22. A reputable quality breeder is preferred, of course. But the standard with them is to have the puppies sterilized prior to going to their new home.

Naturally, this is a problem for anyone hoping for future intimate activities when the dog grows up.

The alternative is less reputable breeders. AKA backyard breeders or worse, puppy mills. These let the pups go for a lot less money and don't have any kind of sterilization contract. But it would be awful to go through a breeder which is not using ethical practices in terms of caring for the parents, frequency of breeding, and so on.

Is there a solution? I'm pretty frustrated. It's not like I can even justify to people why I prefer my dog not to be fixed. Is the only answer to go through more backwater channels?

 

[SigmaTheZeta]

"Back yard breeder" is a term that gets flung around a lot, but the truth is that my parents always got their animals, which were black Labrador retrievers they intended to train as gun dogs, from back yard breeders.

Usually, the owners of those dogs are just regular families, and in many cases, the only reason they are having their animals bred is to "teach their children about the miracle of birth." In those cases, you can almost always assume that the animal is being treated with probably even more dignity and love than the children; sometimes, the families tend to go prematurely into the mode of demanding their children be "little adults" and can be assaholic and scornfully demanding "your teacher says you are acting up, and look at these grades; don't you know that your grandmother is dying and wants to see you graduate, and do you even know how much the private school I am sending you to costs; just know I will not keep you in this house!" parents to their own children in spite of them being great pet-parents. Animals from those kinds of families tend to be showered with a rather revolting amount of love. If you sense that, you should feel more sorry for the kids than the dog.

You have to trust your instincts, there. If you sense that you are dealing with some motherfucker that is running a puppy mill, then you should turn around on your heel and walk back to your car because it's genuinely not worth it.

Consider visiting multiple back yard breeders and spending a while playing with the puppies and getting to know the families on a sort of personal basis, let them know you are shopping around and don't mean anything personal if you don't pick one of theirs, and don't really decide on a puppy until you have met a few of them and have started thinking of one as someone with a name, not just a dog. I think that when you are thinking, puppy's-name-here instead of some-puppy, then it's time to let the family that that puppy comes from know that you are ready to adopt.

 

[SamSmith]

Most breeders around here breed AKC certified dogs. With that being the case they offer them fully intact but for several hundred more. As for private owners I would just ask them before they are born if you can have an intact dog. If they are not registered dogs then the people are more than likely just sterilizing because that is what the majority of people want. From what I see people start posting about a litter a few weeks before they come so that would be a great time to message someone and ask for them to not too. Of course they will ask why so have something better than wanting them the real reason ready!

Good luck!

 

[ZTHorse]

Well if your buying from a "backyard" breeder, just remember that they might have quality parents, just not papered parents.

AKC, CKC and these other orgs can also be cruel to some standards like having excessive curved hind legs in GSDs etc.. etc... and its not like these mean a dog is higher tiered unless you want to make money with your animal to breed.

Just make sure your puppy is healthy and the parents show signs of health. You'll be fine.

 

[Ebonstar]

"Back yard breeder" is a term that gets flung around a lot, but the truth is that my parents always got their animals, which were black Labrador retrievers they intended to train as gun dogs, from back yard breeders.

Problem I've got here is that they are all extremely far away.

I was looking on a tradingpost website. There are several pups listed across the country. I contacted one which would only have been about a two hour drive away, which is very close.

They replied quickly, informing me they had to relocate to a really remote town far north about 24 hours drive away from here.
This is the actual reply:

Hello,
Thanks for contacting me. Lilly and Kiki are the two available
puppies. Kiki is the male and Lilli is the Female. They are all
veterinary checked, vaccinated, has all health records till
date including housing documents and are 12 weeks. I'm giving out
these puppies because i just relocated to(BROOME WESTERN AUSTRALIA),
and the nature of my job does not give me allot of time to
take care of them. So i have been searching for pets loving homes to
buy and take care of these puppies until now that i have found
you.Micro chipped and pedigree Each will cost you $1000inluding
everything just let me know your choice

They are house Trained and Potty Trained.
They are well socialized with kids and other house pets like,cats ,
birds dogs etc.

But before approving your home for my puppies, i will like to ask you
some questions.

(1) Where exactly are you located ?
(2) Are you a breeder?
(3) Do you have kids?
(4) Have you been keeping pets or this is your
first experience ?
Sorry for to many question,but i just want to be sure that my puppies
would be going to the right home. Attached to this mail are pictures
of the puppies. I will be waiting to read back from your soonest mail.
Regards [name]

They sent photos, but it's not even the same dog that's in the ad. Thing about huskies is they each have a distinctly unique face. Additionally, this person has several other dogs on the same tradingpost website for sale. Total of three different breeds and all the ads were put up around the same time in the last couple days.

I asked for more information and he replied with this:

Alright will email you back but am in Broome I can do only arrange for delivery that will still cost you the same if you are alright let me know so that I will email you delivery quotes and the pictures you are requesting for .
Thanks

The communication skills of this seller are horrible. I get he's probably not a native English speaker, with a last name like Nguyen. But goodness, this just feels off. My spidey senses are tingling, ya know? He's getting rid of several dogs at AU$1000 each (which is cheap for breeders) and seems willing to just have them delivered at no extra cost. No option for me to come and inspect his breeding facility or meet the pups' parents, etc. Seems very dodgy. I really don't think it's wise to buy dogs remotely from people who can barely communicate. I can imagine sending him my money and getting nothing in return. That's even worse than a puppy mill.

 

[Ebonstar]

Most breeders around here breed AKC certified dogs. With that being the case they offer them fully intact but for several hundred more. As for private owners I would just ask them before they are born if you can have an intact dog. If they are not registered dogs then the people are more than likely just sterilizing because that is what the majority of people want. From what I see people start posting about a litter a few weeks before they come so that would be a great time to message someone and ask for them to not too. Of course they will ask why so have something better than wanting them the real reason ready!

Good luck!

From what I've seen around here, the two reputable breeders I found both say they absolutely don't let their dogs go without being fixed. Supposedly the reason is to prevent the buyer from breeding pups themselves.

Which I really don't want of course. But it's really not the best idea to say "Don't worry, I won't be breeding pups. I just want to make sure I can have sex with her." -_-

 

[SamSmith]

I would suggest Facebook. At least here in Idaho the majority of breaders, registered or not, use Facebook for selling and advertising. Vlogs about the puppies have also become increasingly popular because it helps sell them. For a buy hearing the owners interact with the puppies is huge. The one Great Dane breeder I adore is constantly uploading videos and she always starts serious listing all the facts about them but then one of them does something goofy and she laughs and plays with them. I do not think a single video has ended without hearing her laugh and get distracted. It is also a great way to see what conditions they live in ect. I would highly suggest checking facebook over other sites if possible.

 

[SamSmith]

From what I've seen around here, the two reputable breeders I found both say they absolutely don't let their dogs go without being fixed. Supposedly the reason is to prevent the buyer from breeding pups themselves.

Which I really don't want of course. But it's really not the best idea to say "Don't worry, I won't be breeding pups. I just want to make sure I can have sex with her." -_-

You could offer them more money or you can have them keep her papers saying she is who she is, which would make it harder for you to sell them. You can also say that you believe that dogs should be kept as God intended and not fixed, or something along those lines. I wish you luck, that is really not fun they are inflexible.

 

[SigmaTheZeta]

From what I've seen around here, the two reputable breeders I found both say they absolutely don't let their dogs go without being fixed. Supposedly the reason is to prevent the buyer from breeding pups themselves.

Which I really don't want of course. But it's really not the best idea to say "Don't worry, I won't be breeding pups. I just want to make sure I can have sex with her." -_-

They often just don't want competition, particularly seedy competition that could get them investigated. The dogs are not family members to those kinds of breeders. They are "fixed assets."

 

[Ebonstar]

I would suggest Facebook. At least here in Idaho the majority of breaders, registered or not, use Facebook for selling and advertising. Vlogs about the puppies have also become increasingly popular because it helps sell them. For a buy hearing the owners interact with the puppies is huge. The one Great Dane breeder I adore is constantly uploading videos and she always starts serious listing all the facts about them but then one of them does something goofy and she laughs and plays with them. I do not think a single video has ended without hearing her laugh and get distracted. It is also a great way to see what conditions they live in ect. I would highly suggest checking facebook over other sites if possible.

I have notoriously bad luck with Facebook. Either I don't understand how it works or I'm doing it wrong or something. I'll do a search and then click on results but what comes up is nothing at all like what I'm looking for. Often it just takes me to additional "general" results that could be in an entirely different country. I'm in Perth, Australia, which is the ass-end of nowhere. There are no nearby cities, so it's extremely challenging to narrow down my searches to workable results.

 

[SigmaTheZeta]

I have notoriously bad luck with Facebook. Either I don't understand how it works or I'm doing it wrong or something. I'll do a search and then click on results but what comes up is nothing at all like what I'm looking for. Often it just takes me to additional "general" results that could be in an entirely different country. I'm in Perth, Australia, which is the ass-end of nowhere. There are no nearby cities, so it's extremely challenging to narrow down my searches to workable results.

Oh, Australia, where the military shoots feral cats from helicopters. The eco-paranoia is understandable, but it sounds like it can get extreme. Yeah, back yard breeders are going to be harder to come by.

 

[SigmaTheZeta]

As far as how to talk about not wanting a spay, say that you think about neutering the same way some parents think about circumcision, and you feel that it is just wrong and not okay to do, not that you do not respect their intentions but that you do have beliefs.

However, I would remind you that you can still have sex with a spay.

And note, if your bitch starts having false pregnancies, you should spay unless you intend to breed her. The false pregnancies can cause a certain type of HIGHLY lethal infection.

 

[MISTRESSC]

I am a "backyard breeder" but all my pups are excellent health, beautiful appearance, smart, kind and loving. My vet commends me for their health- and says He appreciates the time i put into my animals.

 

[SigmaTheZeta]

I honestly want to revisit the idea that us zoos ought to have our own breeding clubs. I mean it makes a lot of sense, to me, to buy a dog that was conceived by a dog that is already known to be sexually receptive. We could even make it a rule to only ever sell a dog that is already sexually mature, so there won't be as many problems with zoos trying to fuck underage puppies.

 

[Ebonstar]

I honestly want to revisit the idea that us zoos ought to have our own breeding clubs. I mean it makes a lot of sense, to me, to buy a dog that was conceived by a dog that is already known to be sexually receptive. We could even make it a rule to only ever sell a dog that is already sexually mature, so there won't be as many problems with zoos trying to fuck underage puppies.

That's an interesting idea. Though keeping a pup until the age of 18 months sounds rather untenable.

 

[RTR]

They often just don't want competition, particularly seedy competition that could get them investigated. The dogs are not family members to those kinds of breeders. They are "fixed assets."

It's not (usually) about competition and the dogs absolutely are family members to almost every proper (ie, not just in it for the $) breeder I know. Nearly all proper breeders are very protective of their puppies and have no shortage of homes for them to go to. A good breeder will pour hundreds of hours into raising a litter often with little to no monetary reward by the time you account for stud fees, keeping/showing/health testing the bitch, puppy vaccinations, an after hours caesarean (why does that always happen at 2am on a Sunday?) etc.. We do this because we love our breeds and want to see them preserved. Many of us have been bitten by unscrupulous people who say they're not interested in breeding then suddenly that bitch you sold them is pregnant to some random crossbred dog at 9 months old and is in pup every 6 months thereafter (because OMFG cute puppies and look at all this cash!). It's easier to weed out those types by saying you desex everything.

@Ebonstar I'd suggest looking at dogzonline and don't be afraid to look interstate, puppies are flown all over the country every day. Send the breeder an email and ask when would be a good time to call or meet to discuss buying a puppy. Some won't respond but the good breeders will want to know a lot about you so they can help pick the right pup for you and your lifestyle and that's easier on the phone or in person than in text, be as honest and realistic as you can and remember that sex is about 1/1000th of what you'll be doing with her so really the least important thing (and she possibly won't be big enough anyway). Sibes are a challenging breed and not always a good fit for a first time owner...lots of exercise required, very intelligent, independent and a high maintenance coat...this makes breeders wary of selling to just anyone but if you're prepared to wait the right puppy will come.

As you're in WA joining DogsWest is a good starting point and helps show that you are serious about doing the right thing (and has the side benefit of exempting your pedigreed dogs from mandatory spey/neuter requirements enforced by some local and state governments...example: South Australia currently and nationwide in the foreseeable future), try to get to a few shows even though that's not what you're interested in. You can access event calendars on sites like ShowManager and EasyDogEntries to see when an all breeds show is coming up nearby, if nothing else you can spend a day out looking at and meeting all the different breeds and breeders out there (networking!), you might even find a different breed that takes your fancy. There's also all sorts of sporting events almost every weekend which is something else to look into.

I know all this sounds like a huge drama but a few months of legwork will seem insignificant after a few years...and once you've established a relationship with a few "dog people" you'll find getting another dog much easier in the future!

 

[SigmaTheZeta]

@RTR

I honestly have no experience with professional breeders, and I have only known families that let their dogs conceive for fully intrinsic reasons.

 

[SigmaTheZeta]

Maybe I shouldn't have said it that way because, based on what you say, many professional breeders really are in the business for a lot of reasons besides financial gain, but what I meant was that the families my own family got their dogs from only would make two litters at most off one bitch, and they didn't charge my family much because they were hunting buddies with my dad.

 

[Ebonstar]

they can help pick the right pup for you and your lifestyle and that's easier on the phone or in person than in text, be as honest and realistic as you can

Yeah, fortunately, this would not be my first dog, as I currently have a female saluki who just turned 2 years old a couple weeks ago. As a running breed who can travel at 60-65km/h for extended durations, I take her to the dog park regularly and/or go for a bike ride with her where I make sure she gets good and tired at least once preferably 2 or 3 times a week, depending on heat or rain, neither of which I am fond of going out in.

remember that sex is about 1/1000th of what you'll be doing with her so really the least important thing (and she possibly won't be big enough anyway).

Yeah that's definitely something I'm aware of, but I have absolutely no regrets about getting my saluki girl even though I was hoping for some sexytimes and then came to the conclusion that she's just not big enough. Not only that, but she hasn't even had her first heat yet at 2 years of age. My breeder tells me that it is not uncommon for saluki bitches to wait until 3 years or more as they mature very slowly compared to other breeds and he also says that they seem to be able to decide when to go into season based on food availability and so on. My saluki also broke her leg at 8 months of age, which was terribly traumatic but I nursed her back to health and now you'd never know it happened. We've been through a lot, and sex really isn't an issue, as I very much care for her without it. Yes she does like to be rubbed and I can make her very happy with some finger play, causing zoomies. But she's just not big enough for actual sex it seems.

As for huskies, I've seen LOTS of video of this breed being fully rutted by men with rather large packages. Seen all the Petlust vids plus a fair number of private vids from Beastforum. The breed seems to be the perfect size, being able to do this while also not being an overly large breed, which I'd prefer to avoid. I know a lot of guys love their danes, but my lifestyle just can't manage an indoor pony sized dog. lol

Because the legal limit is 2 dogs per household, this is my last shot at getting a bitch where mating is even possible. So while sex itself is low on the overall priority list, it still IS on the priority list and I'd like to get a breed which I would both truly enjoy and would also be able to mate with. I've been watching a ton of Sixty Formula videos on youtube to brace myself for the most challenging aspects of having a husky. I'm hoping that when the time comes, I'll be ready.

exempting your pedigreed dogs from mandatory spey/neuter requirements enforced by some local and state governments.
...
nationwide in the foreseeable future

Wait, what? Desexing is not mandatory nationwide in Australia, I know that. Registration has an option right there for intact dogs. It's more expensive, but I have a concession card which makes my fee for intact even less than most people's desexed dogs.

I do like the idea of at least having a casual interest in showing! That's a fantastic justification for having an intact bitch. Thanks for mentioning this.

 

[RTR]

Wait, what? Desexing is not mandatory nationwide in Australia

Not yet it's not...the RSPCA is campaigning heavily for it's introduction and as I indicated this has already happened state wide in South Australia and more than a handful of local council areas throughout the rest of the country. There's a bit of push back from some quarters but I believe it will be inevitable with the best we can hope for being to maintain our existing exemptions or be granted new ones where applicable.

Because the legal limit is 2 dogs per household, this is my last shot at getting a bitch where mating is even possible.

A Sibe bitch is around 19~20kg on average, so on the lower limit of what I'd think of as...fuckable. Not saying you won't have great success but I wouldn't put a lot of faith in those petlust videos as being an accurate representation of reality ?‍ I've been in your position with being limited to two dogs and yes she was too small and I don't consider myself well endowed...I ended up moving to acreage more than a decade ago but that's another story.

I do like the idea of at least having a casual interest in showing! That's a fantastic justification for having an intact bitch.

Showing was actually an excuse to keep my boy entire about 20 years ago, we never won anything but who cares? I had no idea what I was letting myself in for back then...it's been quite the adventure, many friends made (2 legs and four).

It's great that you're up there with the exercise already, Saluki's are wonderful dogs!

 

[RTR]

Maybe I shouldn't have said it that way because, based on what you say, many professional breeders really are in the business for a lot of reasons besides financial gain

I feel that those of us already in the world of purebred dogs have done a spectacularly bad job of explaining what we do and why we do it. We breed about 15% of the dogs in this country but are always the first blamed for every dog that ends up homeless. We are an easy target precisely because we are easily identified and are slowly being regulated into oblivion as a result. Many good breeders have given up as the requirements to keep more than a couple of entire dogs have become too onerous...and you can't run a decent breeding program with two or three dogs. The quality of dogs is suffering as a result and it's painful to watch.

I know people that have spent north of $15K on a mating (imported semen, surgical AI, cesarean) to produce one puppy that could sell for $2K at best (and kept it for themselves anyway)...I can't say they're in it for the money! At best you might break even over time.

 

[SigmaTheZeta]

@RTR, thank you for the explanation.

I grew up in an area that had many free-roaming dogs, actually. Unless you wanted a specific breed, you didn't even really need to go to a breeder to get a dog. Want a dog? Get a house with a porch, and leave some food on it. There will be a dog sleeping there within a week, and it's okay if he's one of those corn-silk colored pointy-eared dingo-looking dogs: we were actually up to our eyeballs in those, and most people say "I think he's a cross between, um, uh, yellow lab and, uh...a...a husky...Dober-man...and...uh, some kind of pointer?"

They are a Native American landrace breed. They have interbred a lot with European dogs, but they are abundant. Everyone says they are a mix, and culturally, you are expected to say they are a mix. Trying to explain where they actually come from just makes people confused, and they say, "so they're a mix." To them, a "mix" is any dog that doesn't come from a breeder. Don't argue with it. It's true. If you try to talk about indigenous landrace breeds, people just think you're stupid.

I then moved to a city where it doesn't work that way. It is a different culture, and I adopted the norms that go with it pretty easily. I've learned better than to try to tell people that dog's just damn wildlife that has just as much business running loose as any squirrel does. That just gets you condemned, "humans ruined this pristine planet, and feral dogs are destroying native wildlife!" I learned, you don't argue with that, either. If you try to explain to them the idea of a dog that is also wildlife, what you are trying to say just does not get through.

And that discussion reminds me of when, fifteen years ago, I was trying to explain to Australians that I had honestly never heard of keeping a cat inside, and I thought that that idea quite honestly sounded very strange. They seemed to be absolutely certain that if I had interacted with any cat whatsoever, then I had almost certainly gone to a seedy pet store to buy him and then turned him loose on an unsuspecting delicate ecosystem. I said to them, "I am not even sure I should say I own him. I just have a name I call him by, and sometimes, I give him some food." It didn't seem to be getting through to them, the cats have lived like that, here, for 400 years, now, and it's not exactly a new development. It didn't stop the Australian anti-cat hysteria from spreading here so bad, we ended up with a father/son cat hunt, even right here in the United States. The Australians were so sure that the whole world was one big Australia, they ended up getting a lot of people convinced that the presence of any free-roaming cats at all constituted a crisis.

Australia Is Deadly Serious About Killing Millions of Cats (Published 2019)

Feral felines are driving the country’s native species to extinction. Now a massive culling is underway to preserve what’s left of the wild.

www.nytimes.com

The problem is that when the public advocacy behind this big culling was going on, a lot of Australians did not hear the part about "Australia is a unique ecosystem that constitutes the only continent in the world that is made up of predominantly marsupial, rather than placental, mammalian species, and that is why this is important." To many of them, it never occurred that "domestic" cats actually have a native range where they actually do belong, and in the US, they are heavily naturalized and have to compete with other indigenous mesopredator species; if you are worried about cats hunting wild birds, here, then I am afraid you've also got a problem with raccoons, foxes, opossums, bobcats (I actually ran into Australlians that didn't believe they were really a genetically compatible species that is fundamentally similar and actually highly abundant), coyotes, predatory birds, and our indigenous wild dogs that are actually related to the dingo and fill in a similar ecological niche to coyotes (I literally had an Australian insisting to me that the Carolina dog was introduced by Europeans; they were actually introduced thousands of years earlier by the ancestors of Native Americans and Meso-American civilizations and may have even gotten here earlier if they were brought by explorers that were related to the Australian aborigines and settled in southern South America, but I was wasting my time). The misunderstanding, though, spread to some equally dumb Americans that then went fully into hysterics about a perceived "feral cat epidemic" in spite of the cats having been in the US for four hundred years.

Someday, I expect to move to a city where people are saying, "Every squirrel deserves a home! These squirrels are only here because IRRESPONSIBLE SQUIRREL OWNERS don't take care of their pets!" and people are running around rounding up all the squirrels to have them castrated and forced to walk on leashes. It would be just as much on a different planet for me as what I have already seen. If I saw that, then I would not argue with it at all. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. I have learned my lesson. If you argue with really dense human beings about things that are absolutes of their existence, they only become hysterical.

I have learned that socially acceptable reality and actual reality are two very different things, and it is a very bad idea to get them confused. If you want to change the culture, what you do is hold a seminar and look like an expert. That usually fixes it. I think that people are only capable of absorbing new information when they go to seminars.

 

[Ebonstar]

I've been in your position with being limited to two dogs and yes she was too small and I don't consider myself well endowed...

Wait, are you saying you had a husky bitch and she was too small? That's... surprising.
As for the petlust videos, what do you suppose happened there? How can something like that be faked? Also quite a few private vids I've seen by others who are quite successful bottoming out inside a husky and they weren't small guys.

So, honestly, do you have any breed recommendations in terms of increasing the probability of mating success? I mean, if mating was the top priority, I could think of a lot of breeds, but it isn't, so I'm not sure what to look for if not a husky.

For me, anything even remotely "bullish" I'm not interested in at all. Think of anything with 'bull' or 'mastiff' or 'terrier' in the name and that's a big no for me. I like clean looking intelligent breeds who aren't fighters, because that's the kind of dog I enjoy being around at home without even thinking about sex. I'd hate to get a dog who was ideal for sex but irritated me in other areas.

 

[Ebonstar]

I have some news. You know that first ad for a Husky which I talked about early in this thread? I got confirmation today that this WAS definitely a scam.

The tradingpost website actually called me up on my phone today to have a chat. She said that their records show I sent a request to communicate with the poster of a particular ad. She wanted to know if I had completed any transactions with this person.

I explained that no, I did not and that I was suspicious because something didn't sound quite right about the communication I got from the poster. Then she said that it definitely is a scam and to not talk with them further and they will be removing this person's account and ads.

So... whew. Spotted a scam and it definitely was one. However, I am also in communication with what seems to be a legitimate seller this time. She said that while all of the ones in the ad are sold, there will be more on the way after several months and that we should keep in touch.

 

[SigmaTheZeta]

Eh, breeding the animal often...I'd take a close look.

 

[knotinterested]

If you want to buy from a reputable breeder then be prepared to pay a higher price as well. You can find some fine dogs from ordinary people that have had a litter of puppies and are selling them. They might be registered with AKC or CKC but if not and you are not intending on breeding your animal then the registered part is of little concern. However things to look for would be the puppy coming from a bitch that has only had 3 litters max. Also it is better if both the bitch and sire are under 5 years of age. This seems to produce much healthier pups.

Good Luck with your search.

 

[Ebonstar]

Eh, breeding the animal often...I'd take a close look.

I get the idea this is a different bitch who is pregnant, but I will clarify.

 

[RTR]

Wait, are you saying you had a husky bitch and she was too small? That's... surprising.

Pretty much, yes. Damn breed variability huh?

As for the petlust videos, what do you suppose happened there? How can something like that be faked? Also quite a few private vids I've seen by others who are quite successful bottoming out inside a husky and they weren't small guys.

Not saying they're faked just not a realistic basis for expectations. You only ever see the bitches that are successful in taking human cocks in porn videos, not the ones that can't or won't...or what was required to get that dick in there. It's a bit like saying that the average human female enjoys a 10 inch cock up their arse because you've seen "wild butt sluts 17" and "anal adventures volume 29" and hell, all the women in those videos were begging for it! Sure it's possible...

I'd hate to get a dog who was ideal for sex but irritated me in other areas.

Personally, I've learned to live with the things I didn't like to begin with...no breed is going to be 100% what you want and 0% what you don't, well I don't believe that's possible anyway. Those annoying things that I thought would be deal breakers and kept me away from some truly wonderful dogs have in the course of time turned out to be insignificant. Example, I used to hate the smell of dogs...loved dogs, hated doggy smell which was one of the reasons I got involved in Sibes - no doggy smell! Decades later I can see what I've missed out on...now my house smells like dog, passengers in my car complain about the doggy smell and I no longer give two shits!

 

[Ebonstar]

Pretty much, yes. Damn breed variability huh?

Hmm. I see. So, the breed average? Are they too small on average would you say? Trying to gauge the probability of success.
I honestly don't know what to think. It's crap only being allowed two dogs and having one already who is too small. I don't want an enormous dog because I just don't have a big enough house for that. Not sure what to do. I'm very patient, but I've already been celibate for the last decade and it's starting to get to me.

 

[kuchen]

In case you are still looking for reasons not to Spay/Neuter a dog I just came across some very good info on the subject:

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

Dog Neutering: The Unspoken Risks Of Neutering | Dogs First

Neutering dogs and puppies is an emotive subject. What are the health risks, side-effects & benefits? Serious health consequences can be avoided

dogsfirst.ie

Alternatives to Neutering Dogs - Dogs First

The sequel to our highly popular first article "Neutering Dogs at 6 Months: The Facts" is naturally what are the safer alternatives to neutering dogs?

dogsfirst.ie

Copy past from the 1st link for male dogs:
On the positive side, neutering male dogs
• eliminates the small risk (probably <1%) of dying from testicular cancer
• reduces the risk of non-cancerous prostate disorders
• reduces the risk of perianal fistulas
• may possibly reduce the risk of diabetes (data inconclusive)

On the negative side, neutering male dogs
• if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a common cancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a poor prognosis.
• increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6
• triples the risk of hypothyroidism
• increases the risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment
• triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems
• quadruples the small risk (<0.6%) of prostate cancer
• doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract cancers
• increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
• increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations

Copy past for female dogs:
On the positive side, spaying female dogs
• if done before 2.5 years of age, greatly reduces the risk of mammary tumors, the most common malignant tumors in female dogs
• nearly eliminates the risk of pyometra, which otherwise would affect about 23% of intact female dogs; pyometra kills about 1% of intact female dogs
• reduces the risk of perianal fistulas
• removes the very small risk (≤0.5%) from uterine, cervical, and ovarian tumors

On the negative side, spaying female dogs
• if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a common cancer in larger breeds with a poor prognosis
• increases the risk of splenic hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 2.2 and cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of >5; this is a common cancer and major cause of death in some breeds
• triples the risk of hypothyroidism
• increases the risk of obesity by a factor of 1.6-2, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems
• causes urinary “spay incontinence” in 4-20% of female dogs
• increases the risk of persistent or recurring urinary tract infections by a factor of 3-4
• increases the risk of recessed vulva, vaginal dermatitis, and vaginitis, especially for female dogs spayed before puberty
• doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract tumors
• increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
• increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations

So basically it's an open and shut case for male dogs, sadly not as cut and dry for females, still a very strong case not to get the dog spayed straight from the breeder... In either case there are a lot less invasive options for dog birth control such as a vasectomy for males or a tubal ligation for females