I wonder about why it could? Sperm is very close in terms of DNA. And cause of pyo is e. Coli most commonly.
Pyometra
- Thread starter Unholy
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rockymountaindog
Citizen of Zooville
Yeah its weird how it that works out
Reconscope
Supreme Citizen of ZV
Yeah I just don't want to be the reason it happens
rockymountaindog
Citizen of Zooville
Yeah. We all, well most of us here, don't want to think that what we do could hurt our companions. Unfortunately it may be true so all we can do is just to what we can to protect our companions.
Reconscope
Supreme Citizen of ZV
Yeah this probably is my most reason of abstaining the best I can from intercourse for my next special individual. However I'll probably fail that so yeah safety is best.
rockymountaindog
Citizen of Zooville
Yeah I'd like to look further into if I get a female mate just to be safe
Reconscope
Supreme Citizen of ZV
Nevertheless a dobie will be mine ?. I heard so many success stories from them.
Jester
Citizen of Zooville
You say this like every member on here is active with female dogs. But I'm willing to bet less than 10% of the zooville populace actively engages with female dogs. Even less that do it regularly. And yet 2 or 3 have already mentioned it happening to their females.
This is a very fresh thread, too.
I have been with, ball park... 50 or so female dogs. Maybe 20 of them on a long term basis. In all that, only 2 wound up with pyometra. One on a freak occurrence when she wasn't being bred by anything. The other being the dane I mentioned earlier.
Now I've read studies that being intact and NOT having a litter makes the chances greater. But I also know by the cause of the disease itself. Some of the things zoos do (especially some of the less clean) only makes sense in adding to the danger. How many videos out there have people fingerings dogs with disgusting dirty hands/fingernails. Or worse, guys going from ass to vagina in the same video.
Reconscope
Supreme Citizen of ZV
That last thing... Ewww
Cookiecaretaker
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
one thing i wanna add, the PH value of canid pussy is more to neutral (6-7) then human (around 4) - that means dogs have more a mixed bacteria in their vagina even more bad ones than humans - to be clean is important for sex with female doggo
ZooDogLover320
Citizen of Zooville
Would wearing a condom help at all? The thing about sperm finding its way all up the dogs reproductive tract, and potentially dragging up with it, bad bacteria is terrifying but true.
As @Jester mentioned in his message his numbers are way less then 25% official statistic for pyo. Either he has been really lucky, or official statistic is crap OR sexual intercorse with dogs reduces chances of pyo. He has decent sample data to for 1 person. Also, pyo is caused be internal bacterias in natural environment. So its more how good the immune system of the dog is, I guess.
Cookiecaretaker
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
i shave my girls cookie too, sometimes her tailhole a bit too so no dirty stuff stays hanging there
rockymountaindog
Citizen of Zooville
So not being completely satisfied with answers on here I went through a couple scientific papers and pulled what I could with out purchasing animal medical textbooks. In hopes to provide the most clear answer on what is pyometra is and why it occurs in order to help out fellow zoos keep their mates safe.
Starting off, pyometra is a bacterial infection of the uterus. It can occur in many non egg laying mammal (including humans) but is most common in canines because of how their estrous cycle works.
In a human estrous cycle (or period) the body builds up the uterine wall in preparation for pregnancy and the lining is expelled from the body at the end of the cycle if pregnancy doesn't occur.
Canines are different in that they do not expel the uterine lining if they do not become pregnant. Estrus is the part of the cycle in which the bitch will be most receptive and copulation with a stud will result in pregnancy. This is usually only about a week long. Following is diestrus which is is normally about 2-3 months long in which the bitch is no longer receptive but the reproductive hormones progesterone is still high in levels. During this time the uterine wall continues to build up over time. Over multiple heat cycles with out pregnancy the uterine wall continues to build up and over time can lead to cystic endometrial hyperplasia (CEH) on older dogs.
Progesterone does many things but the two things that concern us is that it inhibits white blood cells from entering the uterus to aid in fertilization as well as decreases Myometrium (part of the uterine wall) contractions. The increased levels of progesterone during diestrus makes the uterus prone to infection because the immune system is weakened and the uterus is no longer contracting as much which would help in expelling foreign fluids. There is also supporting evidence that the onset of CEH in older dogs can promote infections of the uterus which explains why older dogs may be at higher risk of being infected.
Key take away points is be able to recognize when your partner is in estrus, what we most recognize as "being in heat", and when they go into diestrus, or "coming out of heat". During this period after their heat most journals agree is the time they are most at risk to developing pyometra.
There is still a ton of info that I didn't add or that is locked behind a paywall. If you have any corrections or additions please add them! I'll link some of the sources I used so others could read more if they like to as well as verify what is said.
Vet Clincs
Science Direct
Science Direct 2
VCA Hospital
Starting off, pyometra is a bacterial infection of the uterus. It can occur in many non egg laying mammal (including humans) but is most common in canines because of how their estrous cycle works.
In a human estrous cycle (or period) the body builds up the uterine wall in preparation for pregnancy and the lining is expelled from the body at the end of the cycle if pregnancy doesn't occur.
Canines are different in that they do not expel the uterine lining if they do not become pregnant. Estrus is the part of the cycle in which the bitch will be most receptive and copulation with a stud will result in pregnancy. This is usually only about a week long. Following is diestrus which is is normally about 2-3 months long in which the bitch is no longer receptive but the reproductive hormones progesterone is still high in levels. During this time the uterine wall continues to build up over time. Over multiple heat cycles with out pregnancy the uterine wall continues to build up and over time can lead to cystic endometrial hyperplasia (CEH) on older dogs.
Progesterone does many things but the two things that concern us is that it inhibits white blood cells from entering the uterus to aid in fertilization as well as decreases Myometrium (part of the uterine wall) contractions. The increased levels of progesterone during diestrus makes the uterus prone to infection because the immune system is weakened and the uterus is no longer contracting as much which would help in expelling foreign fluids. There is also supporting evidence that the onset of CEH in older dogs can promote infections of the uterus which explains why older dogs may be at higher risk of being infected.
Key take away points is be able to recognize when your partner is in estrus, what we most recognize as "being in heat", and when they go into diestrus, or "coming out of heat". During this period after their heat most journals agree is the time they are most at risk to developing pyometra.
There is still a ton of info that I didn't add or that is locked behind a paywall. If you have any corrections or additions please add them! I'll link some of the sources I used so others could read more if they like to as well as verify what is said.
Vet Clincs
Science Direct
Science Direct 2
VCA Hospital
Thats the guess theory... to be scientific someone would have to do research and statistic on whether the sex with human helps dogs to avoid pyo
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egoldstein
Guest
It depends on breed, some are more prone to pyo than others.
I'm not aware of any data on the relationship of pyo and breeding, but anecdotal evidence suggests no correlation as I know of breeding bitches and non-breeding bitches who seem to get pyo at the same rate, but again it's important to remember that problems with pyo are hereditary so you can't directly compare different breeds and expect a reliable result.
Pyometra is an infection, it's not caused by sperm. However, the infection ascends from the lower reproductive tract, so one common worry is that sexual activity in the days/weeks after her heats could increase the risk for ascending infections.
The definitive treatment in North America is surgery. There are some medical protocols that can be tried in certain cases (generally in breeding dogs where the dog is then bred on their next heat and retired/spayed after, or if you're buying time and saving up to pay for surgery). Older dogs that recover from pyo with medical treatment will usually get it again 1-2 heats later and end up in surgery as they usually have some degree of cystic endometrial hyperplasia.
At this point (I'm talking older dog with pyo), many dogs will probably also have some degree of ovarian disease, so the treatment will be removal of the ovaries and the diseased uterus. You would have a lot of trouble finding a vet to do OSS on an old dog that had pyometra.
OSS involves removing uterus including cervix to prevent stump pyometra. There is some degree of risk for injury if mated by dog afterward.
It's more like saying, "chemo can help but if you don't want the cancer to come back we'll have to amputate".
If you're reading articles recommending honey and tumeric for deadly infections, you're not using your reading time wisely. @rockymountaindog's post (#45) is a great place to start. Some of the main contributing causes of pyo in dogs can be simplified into cumulative changes to the uterine wall from long term exposure to estrogens and a type of estrus cycle in dogs with long periods of exposure to certain hormones like progesterone. Most dogs get pyometra are not sexually active in any way.
Maybe a bit, anything that maximizes hygene could help in theory, but at the end of the day, you're still dragging in some dirt even when you wear rain boots...
No, it doesn't. Just not how that works.
Haha, yeah, I'm highly doubting that treatment lol but from the perspective of boosting the immune system, wouldn't it make sense as a measure to decrease chance of pyo?
But that would be even before the cancer happens, just in case it happens ....
I don't know, but chatting with a few people, gave the about 5% chance of pyo( far less than 25% advertised). The only connection I can make all these people have sexual intercourse with their dogs. My data size is not huge yes, might be lucky people .... who knows ....
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egoldstein
Guest
Why would it have any such effect? Pyo is caused by normal vaginal bacteria getting into the uterus and causing infection.
Rates of pyo are very dependent upon breed and age.
Here is a paper Breed Variations in the Incidence of Pyometra and Mammary Tumours in Swedish Dogs which covers a fairly large number of Swedish dogs collected from insurance data. As you can see, some dogs like the Great Dane have very high incidences (62% by age 10) and others, such as the Greyhound (11% by age 10) are relatively low. Pyo is pretty common and risk goes up as a bitch gets older due to the nature of the causes (tissue buildup). Larger breeds are on average at higher risk than smaller breeds and since larger breeds are more common, the problems will be more common among zoos. I pay attention to pyo in the community and among the friends I know; I don't have any hard data, but what I have suggests there's no influence of sex having any effect.
To put that into context, the Greyhound risk has just slightly more than a 1 in 10 chance whereas the Great Dane was significantly more than half. Certain lineages are more prone to pyo than others.
Strong immune system easily overcomes infection at the start? Or that was my line of thought at least.
Yeah, that was interesting discovery to me. Well at least GSD were in lower risk group.
rockymountaindog
Citizen of Zooville
The issues is even with a strong and healthy immune system, like I said above, the estrus cycle suppresses the immune system with in the uterus which allows for infection
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egoldstein
Guest
Plus the fact that the bacteria isn't foreign, it's normal vaginal flora that just don't belong in the uterus and causes problems if it gets there.
Keep in mind that, although you see the occasional young healthy dog with pyo and those ones might be more of an "unlucky" infection, the vast majority of these dogs are older females who have underlying pathology with their uterus and often ovaries too, they're "sick" BEFORE they get the infection.
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egoldstein
Guest
I do not believe it is accurate to claim they are sick before infection. Nothing I have read in any papers or other texts support that. IF anyone has such, kindly share it.
Pyometra in dogs is due to a buildup of tissue from their normal estrus cycle; bitches can be happy and healthy one day and develop pyo the next. All that needs to happen is for the seal to fail allowing normal vaginal bacteria into the uterus.
It's most common in bitches 4-8 weeks after estrus, but it isn't isolated to that timeframe.
Pyo is more common in older bitches, but that's due to the buildup of tissue.
Ya that's why I put it in quotes, it's not the best way to express what I meant. I don't mean the dog is sick like throwing up or feeling crappy, I mean that the uterine tissues are not normal healthy tissues, they're usually thickened cystic tissue with less immune function and motility. The dog is feeling fine though.
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egoldstein
Guest
I keep referencing the paper "Breed Variations in the Incidence of Pyometra and Mammary Tumours in Swedish Dogs" and there's a link to it above, but I'm posting it here so I can link directly to the paper for convenience.
PatchyNerd
Tourist
I concur. My bitch friend got pyo and it killed her because her owner did not treat her (he was clueless), they dont have a mechanism to overcome it naturally even if it is an open infection.