The "image" definition might limit it to photos. But you would have to know it first. Also, this kind of law shall be interpreted narrowly in case of any doubts. So talking about the previous example of "converting", you would most likely successfully defend by saying the legislator's intention clearly wasn't to ban everything you can possibly store.
New Florida Law
- Thread starter aragos32727
- Start date
SigmaTheZeta
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
As I have said in the past, do not panic too much over this flurry of new laws targeting us. It is almost impossible to enforce a law that is directed at something that you do in the privacy of your own home. For it to ever threaten most zoos, your local police would have to be aroused into a full-blown Puritan witch-hunt, which really doesn't happen much except in the event of serious scandals where somebody was seriously hurt or killed.
In the 1990's, for example, gay sex used to be a felony in the US state of North Carolina, but that law was virtually never enforced. In fact, police were not even really aware of it. Our gay rights organizations were very pedestrian and law-abiding in how they did things, so there was not really any motive for the police to make any dramatic moves in trying to crack down on the gay people.
I mean it was different in New York City, for example. New York City has historically been a center of social unrest, and in places like Hell's Kitchen, the gay community was often mixed-up with the Mafia, which led to police having a weird outlook that homosexuality was linked with general criminality. That was a large part of why they were heavy-handed in the enforcement of their state's anti-gay laws.
In North Carolina, though, almost the only liberal centers we have are the educated areas. Yes, I know that Charlotte also leans left, but the Research Triangle Park area, even more so. Likewise, the gay community in Asheville was always centered around an old liberal arts university, and they developed a quiet and peaceful style of mildly center-left libertarianism in that city that resembles the spirit of Colorado. Practically the only reason why our anti-gay law survived at all was due to forces like the descendants of those conservative Protestant immigrants that moved to areas like Hickory, NC and areas like Southeastern NC, where they are still bitter because they can't keep black people as tobacco-picking plantation slaves anymore. Those people are so openly homophobic that no LGBT that have any sense of self-preservation want to be around them. In the places where gay people actually voluntarily lived their adult lives, they tended to get educated and to work in bourgeoise jobs, and they were really profoundly inoffensive.
As a consequence of the fact that our LGBT communities were centered around such laid-back, professorial types of areas, the anti-gay law in our state was essentially never enforced. Our LGBT leaders were very peaceful, law-abiding people, and by the time of Lawrence v. Texas, acceptance of LGBT in our state was steadily growing, anyway. Nobody was actually arrested based on that ridiculous law.
The lesson is this: if you are going to have a zoo rights movement, be peaceful and law-abiding, and keep up good relations with local authorities. No matter what the laws are, local authorities actually care a lot if you WANT to have a good relationship with them. It is a VERY BIG DEAL.
Our relationship with society means a lot more than these dumb laws. Those laws are a symptom of our poisoned relationship with society, not the illness. Those laws are unlikely to hurt most of us, but the poisoned relationship with society that those laws represent can.
In the 1990's, for example, gay sex used to be a felony in the US state of North Carolina, but that law was virtually never enforced. In fact, police were not even really aware of it. Our gay rights organizations were very pedestrian and law-abiding in how they did things, so there was not really any motive for the police to make any dramatic moves in trying to crack down on the gay people.
I mean it was different in New York City, for example. New York City has historically been a center of social unrest, and in places like Hell's Kitchen, the gay community was often mixed-up with the Mafia, which led to police having a weird outlook that homosexuality was linked with general criminality. That was a large part of why they were heavy-handed in the enforcement of their state's anti-gay laws.
In North Carolina, though, almost the only liberal centers we have are the educated areas. Yes, I know that Charlotte also leans left, but the Research Triangle Park area, even more so. Likewise, the gay community in Asheville was always centered around an old liberal arts university, and they developed a quiet and peaceful style of mildly center-left libertarianism in that city that resembles the spirit of Colorado. Practically the only reason why our anti-gay law survived at all was due to forces like the descendants of those conservative Protestant immigrants that moved to areas like Hickory, NC and areas like Southeastern NC, where they are still bitter because they can't keep black people as tobacco-picking plantation slaves anymore. Those people are so openly homophobic that no LGBT that have any sense of self-preservation want to be around them. In the places where gay people actually voluntarily lived their adult lives, they tended to get educated and to work in bourgeoise jobs, and they were really profoundly inoffensive.
As a consequence of the fact that our LGBT communities were centered around such laid-back, professorial types of areas, the anti-gay law in our state was essentially never enforced. Our LGBT leaders were very peaceful, law-abiding people, and by the time of Lawrence v. Texas, acceptance of LGBT in our state was steadily growing, anyway. Nobody was actually arrested based on that ridiculous law.
The lesson is this: if you are going to have a zoo rights movement, be peaceful and law-abiding, and keep up good relations with local authorities. No matter what the laws are, local authorities actually care a lot if you WANT to have a good relationship with them. It is a VERY BIG DEAL.
Our relationship with society means a lot more than these dumb laws. Those laws are a symptom of our poisoned relationship with society, not the illness. Those laws are unlikely to hurt most of us, but the poisoned relationship with society that those laws represent can.
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DinoRawr
Tourist
@SigmatoZeta You raise an interesting point there. Another thing I was thinking after what I said is that the state of Florida likely doesn't have the resources to prosecute people for having zoo porn, as they don't have the monitoring resources that say, the FBI does (so if it gets full-on banned on a federal level like CP, then we can panic), as long as people don't get prosecuted for other things that would prompt them to find zoo porn on people's computers. So basically, people in Florida should probably just keep their noses clean, and maybe not get their computers fixed at any Best Buys in Florida, and they'll probably be ok.
SigmaTheZeta
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
I think there is no reason for panic at all. There is perfectly good reason to preserve a commitment to the pursuit of good relations with authorities, legitimate researchers, and society at large, under all conditions. If the society around us can come to regard us as a positive presence in their neighborhoods and among their local nightlife, then they will not believe that it is usually appropriate to regard us with alarm, laws or no laws.
There are no conditions under which panic is useful, and there are also no conditions under which people that are prone to panic are useful. We need cool heads to represent us, under all conditions.
A
Alpha Cat
Guest
Whatever happened to equality? Oh wait, equality does not apply to those who deviate from the status quo. Everybody lock up the Zoos, and ignore the fact that US senators are banging $5000 a night paid escorts and the fact that they all paid to have their names blacked out from Jeff Epstein's little black book before he was killed.
R
Ruben
Guest
Yeah, but when you smell smoke, sitting calmly on the couch may not be the best idea either. Fetching the fire extinguisher, calling the fire brigade and/or or leaving the house may be advisable.
PornHub was accused multiple times of hosting CP and not taking it down, don't remember the full story but their payment service was going to leave and they were maybe even threatened to pay fines for distributing CP and they don't know which account is hosting it so they purged every unverified content. Other porn sites did the same after that, but XVideos still has armature content so maybe they might in the future
It's the other way round people with bestiality porn also had CP so bestiality might indicate they will abuse children or have CP because there is an overlap of cases
Hetero is not illegal but it doesn't matter how low the chance if they can support that there is a link it will pass. They also said the animal showed the same signs the child abuse does, that's why hetero was not banned you can defend it and explain it you can't with bestiality without exposing yourself
Before this they tried saying it is animal abuse but arrest for bestiality were rare and was pushed away for the same reason @Pillar said. It is important to know you are not defending it by doing this and sooner or later this was going to happen
It would be too late to worry if it reached federal level but how would you stop it from spreading to other states, most of you only tried to push it away but this will not work when they linked child abuse even rare cases are taken seriously. Before anyone say it is a crime that happened, rape videos are not legal even if it has already happened this was removed in the PH purge
The authorities will only see you as a law abiding citizen not a zoo who is a good law abiding? citizen, panicking is not good but being too relaxed is not good too
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SigmaTheZeta
Esteemed Citizen of ZV
I did not say there were no such thing as reasonable conditions for possibly moving. However, even if we did start moving to Germany, for example, it would be critically important for us to coordinate well enough to make a generally positive impression on the Germans. Panic does not help with that.
Let's assume the worst, for example. Let's assume that there were serious anti-zoophile pogroms going on, police were dragging zoophiles from their homes and shooting their dogs, and essentially all Hell was breaking loose. Presumably, our entire civilization would also be in trouble under those sorts of conditions, since the persecution of a scapegoat tends to happen chiefly as a reaction to social stress.
Even under the conditions that zoophiles really genuinely needed to resettle in Germany or another relatively zoo-friendly country in order to feel safe, we would have to try to be organized and proactive about integration. We would not want to make the same mistakes that some Syrians did when their country was having their political crisis, and they needed a place of refuge. Running away to another country can backfire if there is there is no sense of order. Panic leads to disorder. Disorder leads to confused messages, and confused messages is gasoline on the fire of prejudice.
However, we are currently not in such extremity. Our worst point was, I think, in 2018. In the United States, I think we have made sufficient social inroads that we will most likely be able to avoid any violence. Even cases where zoophiles have been successfully doxxed have been falling flat, due to a lack of social or political enthusiasm for the idea that it is really important if someone's neighbor or coworker might be a zoophile. I think that this improvement has been largely due to us steadily improving our systems of social engagement. It is worthwhile for us to put our voices out there because professional therapists look to those voices whenever they run across a client that happens to be a zoo.
In our current situation, it looks to me like organized social outreach is still the way forward, and even if flight ever seemed like it was necessary, a sense of organization would help us avoid a repetition of the issues that were created due to the disorganized movement of Syrians into Europe.
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R
Ruben
Guest
That's fine. I wonder though if anyone reaches out to legislators when such laws are proposed and explains why they are flawed and not helpful, and which alternatives there are to satisfy those interests of the public that are legitimate. Does anyone give legislators the necessary information to make an informed decision? Is anyone trying to stop or revoke such laws? Because as fine as social engagement on a local level may be, you are more vulnerable when there is a law and you break it than when there is no such law.
Agree. Well said. This is the way most of the world has become. People hear something that fits their preedisposition, and they don't dig deeper for the facts. Even if they wanted to, the facts aren't always clear. Politicians are good at exploiting this to gain and keep power. How do we change this and give power, freedom, liberty and responsibility to the people, while still maintaining order, civility and security?
Wouldn't it be funny if the lawmaker were suddenly found to be in possession of bestial images, and thusly convicted?!
DinoRawr
Tourist
Another point I'd like to raise is that I think Oregon already has a similar law banning zoo porn, so I'd definitely like to hear what people in Oregon have to say about this. I doubt many people there have been prosecuted for having zoo porn, and I bet most of those that have probably got prosecuted for something else that prompted the authorities to look, and in turn, find zoo porn on the person's computer. In other words, I think people in Florida and Oregon will be fine as long as they keep their noses clean. That said, I am glad that I'm not in Florida or Oregon.
I think sometime states pass such laws so a particular legislature can claim some credit for actually doing something, and how can anyone even actually object. On which grounds? They are viewed as protecting animals, a feather in their cap. Use to be farmers objected to it as it could be used as a weapon, but then the laws were changed to exempt animal husbandry practices as with veterinarians. Some states, while laws were introduced into session were never brought to a vote and they expired. I think that happened quite a bit in Nevada. WV I think still not an issue. I always liked the hands-off government in WV, which is why I think a law has not been voted on in that state.
My main objection I have to many of the laws is the sentencing. Usually 100% jail time, but on the other hand state it is mental disorder. While treatment is often recommend for first time cases, its still not inline with their reasoning on why people have sex with animals. I do not see how locking someone up with a supposedly mental disorder, will actually solve the problem. The states where it is classified a misdemeanor w/o being on some sex watch list are the most reasonable.
In some states the laws are so screwed up, you can get caught burning your dog alive to death and get less of a sentense then if you got caught sucking his dick.
My main objection I have to many of the laws is the sentencing. Usually 100% jail time, but on the other hand state it is mental disorder. While treatment is often recommend for first time cases, its still not inline with their reasoning on why people have sex with animals. I do not see how locking someone up with a supposedly mental disorder, will actually solve the problem. The states where it is classified a misdemeanor w/o being on some sex watch list are the most reasonable.
In some states the laws are so screwed up, you can get caught burning your dog alive to death and get less of a sentense then if you got caught sucking his dick.
DinoRawr
Tourist
You mean denial of global warming, but that's a discussion for the DF
Moreover the cause of global warming is right now completely irrelevant. No matter who or what causes it, a solution is needed.
DinoRawr
Tourist
Let's get this thread back on track here. I'd like to hear what people in Oregon have to say about this law, given that I'm pretty sure they're under a similar one to the one that was just passed in Florida, so if we could get someone from there in here, I'd appreciate it. I don't really know much about who's from where on here, otherwise I'd tag some Oregonians myself.
Are you talking about a Tesla Model X or a Hummer H2 though?