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This is why we are given a bad rap and the laws against us are created.

valleyyote

valleyyote

Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Howdy and good day!

I was really aggravated by something my father saw on the web the other day and it reminded me why us zoos are so hated by so many and why they create the laws that hurt us and undermine our freedom and security.

I will let this article speak for itself: https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2079...s-with-his-neighbors-puppy-on-the-front-porch

Also while doing more research on this recent article I found another concerning a Florida man that happened in 2014: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/james-guy-bull_n_4994059

A few things folks need to remember never get involved in public displays, never mistreat animals, and above all else do not go out of your way to trespass and do things with other folks animals. If you have permission to be with others animals be discreet and make sure you are not raping said animals. When in doubt just don't. It is not worth the troubles it may cause for you or every other zoo out there.

At this point i will have to agree with the assumptions that are being made by many about us because it turns out so many zoos are not intelligent enough to be making smart choices and are doing truly stupid, abusive things and breaking so many laws in the process that do not even have anything to do with zoo.

It is the same reason it is now a felony in Washington state. Some idiots in Enumclaw thought it would be good idea to have fun with a stallion and one got a ruptured colon for his troubles and was dumped in a hospital emergency room. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enumclaw_horse_sex_case

Folks just need to stop the insanity.
 
pes said:
Also firefox spellcheck does not know the word zoophile
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Firefox spellcheck is the worst I've ever seen - though skype's doesn't even recognize its own name. I'm surprised it recognizes anything, and if you're unsure of a spelling and hope for help it's never able to figure out what you're looking for.
 
Antis will use any old story to spread hate even if it was legal they would still give you cases like this
 
valleyyote said:
Howdy and good day!

I was really aggravated by something my father saw on the web the other day and it reminded me why us zoos are so hated by so many and why they create the laws that hurt us and undermine our freedom and security.

I will let this article speak for itself: https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2079...s-with-his-neighbors-puppy-on-the-front-porch

Also while doing more research on this recent article I found another concerning a Florida man that happened in 2014: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/james-guy-bull_n_4994059

A few things folks need to remember never get involved in public displays, never mistreat animals, and above all else do not go out of your way to trespass and do things with other folks animals. If you have permission to be with others animals be discreet and make sure you are not raping said animals. When in doubt just don't. It is not worth the troubles it may cause for you or every other zoo out there.

At this point i will have to agree with the assumptions that are being made by many about us because it turns out so many zoos are not intelligent enough to be making smart choices and are doing truly stupid, abusive things and breaking so many laws in the process that do not even have anything to do with zoo.

It is the same reason it is now a felony in Washington state. Some idiots in Enumclaw thought it would be good idea to have fun with a stallion and one got a ruptured colon for his troubles and was dumped in a hospital emergency room. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enumclaw_horse_sex_case

Folks just need to stop the insanity.
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If memory serves me right there was a zoo (a guy who was banging his mare) in FL back in 2011 who tried to keep it legal, but failed.
 
All very good points indeed.

I agree wholeheartedly @pes zoophiles are very kind and loving to their pets and treat as they would any special companion showering then with love and affection and never crossing any boundaries to avoid any pain of suffering for their lover. They go out of their way to make sure that their bestie is always happy, healthy, and content. Anything else is simply abuse and mistreatment.

Indeed @Pillar many have tried valiantly to stop the anti zoo rhetoric to no avail. Many have made very good arguments for it and have been steamrolled for their efforts. I believe their are many hypocrites and closet zoos in office that do not wish to have to explain themselves if they vote no in support of zoo. It would out them in front of their piers. So instead they are willing to risk fines and imprisonment instead. When they outlawed it in Washington it passed unanimously in both the house and senate. Statistically there had to be zoos in both. Somebody was very afraid to be truthful and honest. It simply pisses me off the way some zoos treat others just to make themselves feel better.

Indeed @zooms this very thing happened to me on FA and I lost my account over the ensuing argument. The person was bitching about something that had been said years ago on twitter about fa supporting zoos and was angrry because they were very anti. and went on a huge rant even though the problem had been resolved ages ago. I explained to them in private about how zoo was not as simple, nor as cut, and dried as all that and that folks who are zoos are not bad people and many did not wish to be thus or ask for it but have learned to be comfortable with it just as homosexuals have been given the right to be comfortable with their situation. What do I see the next day after I opened up? It was a big ol hate boner towards all zoos in the way of another public rant even after I had gone into detail about the personal conflicts I and other zoos have had over the issue and how it is something no one really has control over or chooses. This person was being extremely hypocritical and spiteful. They had all sorts of other nasty art they faved and would draw just about any other deviance you could imagine for a price and yet they chose this one subject to harp on. I got angry and left a nasty reply to their ugly rant and sent them and even nastier note. I should have kept it to myself. In response several of their friends got pissed at me, called all kinds of choice names, labeled me an animal fucker, etc.. I tried to make amends by writing notes to folks explaining myself and apologizing and in doing so someone took what I had written and used it against me in a report to admin and I was perma banned. One stupid little thing from ages passed was weaponized and caused much pain and grief for no other reason than to make someone feel they had done something great simply by not understnding and causing great hurt to someone. Needles to say I have zero love or tolerance for anti zoos especially all the hypocrites and closet zoos in the furry community. Folks forget everyone should be allowed to have their freedoms espcially in the USA.
 
valleyyote said:
It is the same reason it is now a felony in Washington state. Some idiots in Enumclaw thought it would be good idea to have fun with a stallion and one got a ruptured colon for his troubles and was dumped in a hospital emergency room. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enumclaw_horse_sex_case
Click to expand...

Isn't this case a bit more complicated than just trespassing? I belive it was his horse that he was stabling and the owners of the Farm only pressed charges because they didn't want to be associated with the incident. Mr.Tait who was charged owned the other farm they were at that night had his animals taken from him with no evidence of abuse of the animals, nor in any of the hundreds of videos they found. He seems like a real zoo who loved his animals. I suppose you can still argue it was trespassing, but it likely wasn't fence hopping in the usual sense. I just feel like maybe they didn't get a fair shake because of the sensationalism around the story.
 
pes said:
Those are not zoos then. At least in my mind zoo is most of the time a short for zoophile. If you hurt animals you are not a zoophile.
(Also firefox spellcheck does not know the word zoophile :D)
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Isn't the word for those types of people Zoosadists?
 
valleyyote said:
It is the same reason it is now a felony in Washington state. Some idiots in Enumclaw thought it would be good idea to have fun with a stallion and one got a ruptured colon for his troubles and was dumped in a hospital emergency room. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enumclaw_horse_sex_case
Click to expand...

As dumb as that was, it wouldn't have amounted to much had it not been they couldn't charge him because it was aruguably not a case of cruelty. That's what sparked the outrage. People have to have their head on a pike.
 
SirVid said:
As dumb as that was, it wouldn't have amounted to much had it not been they couldn't charge him because it was aruguably not a case of cruelty. That's what sparked the outrage. People have to have their head on a pike.
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Most of it was because special interest groups were hard at work taking away our rights. They want our animals and our freedoms and will fuck the animals themselves if that's what it takes.
 
AmantePerro said:
Most of it was because special interest groups were hard at work taking away our rights. They want our animals and our freedoms and will fuck the animals themselves if that's what it takes.
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That may be, but it doesn't hurt to have public outrage and they had that in spades when they couldn't issue a charge in Enumclaw.

There's a reason that case stands out. No, it's not the only bestiality case in that timeframe. It's the only one without a bestiality charge though.
 
Even if they had a charge, that's not enough. When it comes to sex, some litigators want to throw the book at the defendant. In Canada, there was someone that did some terrible stuff, and was charged with multiple offences. But the lawyers were angry when they found out they couldn't also toss in a bestiality charge, so they changed the law.
 
DogMichael said:
Even if they had a charge, that's not enough. When it comes to sex, some litigators want to throw the book at the defendant. In Canada, there was someone that did some terrible stuff, and was charged with multiple offences. But the lawyers were angry when they found out they couldn't also toss in a bestiality charge, so they changed the law.
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And this is why prosecutors are mostly reprehensible. ?
 
SirVid said:
That may be, but it doesn't hurt to have public outrage and they had that in spades when they couldn't issue a charge in Enumclaw.

There's a reason that case stands out. No, it's not the only bestiality case in that timeframe. It's the only one without a bestiality charge though.
Click to expand...
Indeed, they had nothing to charge anyone with...although correctly, it was not just a trespass situation. Enumclaw is a small town. Though not during the actual " Mr Hands" days, I knew people there involved in trying to treat him. I lived there. The problem was peritonitis, and it was left too long before they dumped the man in front of the hospital and split. He died of that infection, caused by a ruptured gut. The nits who owned the farm pretty much got away with manslaughter, not because of a self-inflicted injury, but because they neglected to take appropriate care AFTER the fact. In the past, there've always been people, supposedly there, who argue that point....they've all left Dodge, of course, but one went to Tennessee or Kentucky and got into further law troubles revolving around similar doings. Fear and denial cause people to make VERY bad decisions. They did. But law-wise, the case did lead to laws specifically anti-beast. Can't imagine why.
Remember the period of time....it was only about ten years prior that the Town of Enumclaw had the dubious distinction of being a dumping zone for at least one of "The Green River Killer"'s victims. He IS in the jug now....but he wasn't yet admitting all of his kills...so the dumped Girl was unsolved...and possibly still an unsub. Little towns have long memories and weak tummies. Too, they dislike it when a net search for "horse sex" brings up their town Name FIRST, as if it was a perv Heaven. The Town is ALSO a bedroom community for the State Capital half an hour away in Olympia. Oh, yes...a certain hero of the community was involved in a smuggling case around that time in a Wa. county a bit north of King County, which holds Enumclaw. Add all that together and the why of Washington's Laws is easy to see. The school kidz seem to have fun with it....it does have an 'eewww' factor. But no one else does. For Zoo folk, it was kind of a perfect storm.
 
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Fuck them if they can't take a joke.

I am tired of people who are part of a victimized population blaming the victims for what the usual asshats do. We are talking about people who used to get together and lynch people for being black.
 
saddlebum66 said:
I knew people there involved in trying to treat him. I lived there. The problem was peritonitis, and it was left too long before they dumped the man in front of the hospital and split. He died of that infection, caused by a ruptured gut. The nits who owned the farm pretty much got away with manslaughter, not because of a self-inflicted injury, but because they neglected to take appropriate care AFTER the fact.
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The article from wikipedia, which I have no clue how accurate it is, said Mr.Pinyan had a lack of feeling in his lower body from an accident. Other things I have read seem to suggest Mr.Pinyan refused to be taken to the hospital until he sucumbed to his injury. I don't want to assume too much, but there are some conflicting stories, and give the nature of the matter it is probbaly impossible to know what happened exactly. While its easy to say it was the lack of aftercare, and they very well could have helped him if he was taken to the ER immediatly, I am sure if any zoo was put into the position of 'save a life or be outed' social conditioning would hit us with an existential crisis. The whole case was a sad tragedy. I don't know enough about horse relations to know how risky this behavior is though, and hope someone can give their ZOO opinion on that.

*EDIT- Zoo is in all caps because I meant I would like to hear from male zoos with male horses, not implying anyones zoo status.
 
ElectricSheep said:
The article from wikipedia, which I have no clue how accurate it is, said Mr.Pinyan had a lack of feeling in his lower body from an accident. Other things I have read seem to suggest Mr.Pinyan refused to be taken to the hospital until he sucumbed to his injury. I don't want to assume too much, but there are some conflicting stories, and give the nature of the matter it is probbaly impossible to know what happened exactly. While its easy to say it was the lack of aftercare, and they very well could have helped him if he was taken to the ER immediatly, I am sure if any zoo was put into the position of 'save a life or be outed' social conditioning would hit us with an existential crisis. The whole case was a sad tragedy. I don't know enough about horse relations to know how risky this behavior is though, and hope someone can give their ZOO opinion on that.

*EDIT- Zoo is in all caps because I meant I would like to hear from male zoos with male horses, not implying anyones zoo status.
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To my mind whether Pinyan had issues with his lower nervous system or not, and I think I have heard such, basic humanity should have been in play at the first sign of bloody stool. Hospitals will usually treat you for even risky behaviors, and one doesnt have to tell them everything. A run-in with a big dildo would cause similar enough damage. There are fifty sex shops within 100 miles of Enumclaw, including the only three-story superstore I've ever heard of. Some of their wares will bug your eyes out. My point is still....someone was injured, it isnt getting better....the Hospital is three miles....lets go. That didn't happen. The rest of my post was directed to why the laws changed so severely there. Im just wondering why people are surprised
 
saddlebum66 said:
Indeed, they had nothing to charge anyone with...although correctly, it was not just a trespass situation. Enumclaw is a small town. Though not during the actual " Mr Hands" days, I knew people there involved in trying to treat him. I lived there. The problem was peritonitis, and it was left too long before they dumped the man in front of the hospital and split. He died of that infection, caused by a ruptured gut. The nits who owned the farm pretty much got away with manslaughter, not because of a self-inflicted injury, but because they neglected to take appropriate care AFTER the fact. In the past, there've always been people, supposedly there, who argue that point....they've all left Dodge, of course, but one went to Tennessee or Kentucky and got into further law troubles revolving around similar doings. Fear and denial cause people to make VERY bad decisions. They did. But law-wise, the case did lead to laws specifically anti-beast. Can't imagine why.
Remember the period of time....it was only about ten years prior that the Town of Enumclaw had the dubious distinction of being a dumping zone for at least one of "The Green River Killer"'s victims. He IS in the jug now....but he wasn't yet admitting all of his kills...so the dumped Girl was unsolved...and possibly still an unsub. Little towns have long memories and weak tummies. Too, they dislike it when a net search for "horse sex" brings up their town Name FIRST, as if it was a perv Heaven. The Town is ALSO a bedroom community for the State Capital half an hour away in Olympia. Oh, yes...a certain hero of the community was involved in a smuggling case around that time in a Wa. county a bit north of King County, which holds Enumclaw. Add all that together and the why of Washington's Laws is easy to see. The school kidz seem to have fun with it....it does have an 'eewww' factor. But no one else does. For Zoo folk, it was kind of a perfect storm.
Click to expand...

I know you are saying this for everyone's benefit, but for the record as a PNW'er myself I'm very aware of all this.

saddlebum66 said:
Im just wondering why people are surprised
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I'm not. My point is, it was going to happen sooner or later, sadly. Because, as my father would say:

"People."


Pillar said:
And this is why prosecutors are mostly reprehensible. ?
Click to expand...

I know you were trying to make a point, but prosecuters don't change laws. Legislators do. Same ilk really.
 
Pillar said:
And this is why prosecutors are mostly reprehensible. ?
Click to expand...


Not exactly.... You cannot blame the legal infrastructure for making law.... It Is what they're put in place for. You also cannot blame people for wanting to live in a community that is safe for their kids to grow up in. I would absolutely challenge ANYONE who lives in such a community to think otherwise. They just DON'T. More, they have the weight of the majority on their side. And keep in mind too that the Most Vocal among us are exclusive. They do not send kids to school, they do not marry in local churches. They may not need to be involved in the day-to-day that Joe and Jane Average do as a matter of course. A case like Pinyan's is viewed FAR out of proportion to any risk to the community it happens in. Enumclaw and Washington would not be capable of acting any other way.
Add in one more factor, and I'm off the Ivory box. This Is the internet age Joe and Jane put the kid to bed, then THEY surf.... And they see Reddits and porn sites and adamant rhetoric from people like post here.... " Give me Doggie, or give me Death!" or maybe even " I PISS on your Social Contract! "....who doesn't have a Clue what a social contract Is. Any wonder they're scared? Any wonder they're looking to shut that down, and lock people away? We are the evil closet monkey here, not them....we can solve the problem..... If we ever grow the pair it's going to take.... But it's going to start with going off the radar. We were all there for hundreds of years before the net made us obvious.
 
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Abuse is bad, and we all get labeled as animal abusers. I think the majority of the people here would not abuse their animals.

I don’t know about FORBIDDEN_WEBSITE! tho. I logged on there and found videos of someone stuffing a puppy in their vagina. Just... fucking what. Fuck that shit man, garbage website.

And there used to be forums on the light web about zoosadism. People cheerfully talking about... well use your imagination. It was fucked up.
 
valleyyote said:
All very good points indeed.

I agree wholeheartedly @pes zoophiles are very kind and loving to their pets and treat as they would any special companion showering then with love and affection and never crossing any boundaries to avoid any pain of suffering for their lover. They go out of their way to make sure that their bestie is always happy, healthy, and content. Anything else is simply abuse and mistreatment.

Indeed @Pillar many have tried valiantly to stop the anti zoo rhetoric to no avail. Many have made very good arguments for it and have been steamrolled for their efforts. I believe their are many hypocrites and closet zoos in office that do not wish to have to explain themselves if they vote no in support of zoo. It would out them in front of their piers. So instead they are willing to risk fines and imprisonment instead. When they outlawed it in Washington it passed unanimously in both the house and senate. Statistically there had to be zoos in both. Somebody was very afraid to be truthful and honest. It simply pisses me off the way some zoos treat others just to make themselves feel better.

Indeed @zooms this very thing happened to me on FA and I lost my account over the ensuing argument. The person was bitching about something that had been said years ago on twitter about fa supporting zoos and was angrry because they were very anti. and went on a huge rant even though the problem had been resolved ages ago. I explained to them in private about how zoo was not as simple, nor as cut, and dried as all that and that folks who are zoos are not bad people and many did not wish to be thus or ask for it but have learned to be comfortable with it just as homosexuals have been given the right to be comfortable with their situation. What do I see the next day after I opened up? It was a big ol hate boner towards all zoos in the way of another public rant even after I had gone into detail about the personal conflicts I and other zoos have had over the issue and how it is something no one really has control over or chooses. This person was being extremely hypocritical and spiteful. They had all sorts of other nasty art they faved and would draw just about any other deviance you could imagine for a price and yet they chose this one subject to harp on. I got angry and left a nasty reply to their ugly rant and sent them and even nastier note. I should have kept it to myself. In response several of their friends got pissed at me, called all kinds of choice names, labeled me an animal fucker, etc.. I tried to make amends by writing notes to folks explaining myself and apologizing and in doing so someone took what I had written and used it against me in a report to admin and I was perma banned. One stupid little thing from ages passed was weaponized and caused much pain and grief for no other reason than to make someone feel they had done something great simply by not understnding and causing great hurt to someone. Needles to say I have zero love or tolerance for anti zoos especially all the hypocrites and closet zoos in the furry community. Folks forget everyone should be allowed to have their freedoms espcially in the USA.
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FA is full of adult children. It’s an intellectual cesspool and there’s not a single mature person on there
 
People....be very careful mentioning names in threads like this. It does attract unwanted attention, and may be visible to certain search engines. If someones been convicted, thats not a problem, but if they have not, it might open the site to a lawsuit.
More, accusations that are made online are often escalated from little fact into world- shattering hypertruths....remember the game called "Telephone"? I saw a dead bug turn into a live Rat in an hour once, among adults who should have known better.
 
Ashleymew said:
Glad to know you think I'm immature despite not knowing me.
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Dont know you, but I agree. Maturity isnt a set number. Its anything but.
But there's really no arguing with a nit that makes sweeping statements in place of actually knowing what he's speaking of.
 
valleyyote said:
Indeed @zooms this very thing happened to me on FA and I lost my account over the ensuing argument. The person was bitching about something that had been said years ago on twitter about fa supporting zoos and was angrry because they were very anti. and went on a huge rant even though the problem had been resolved ages ago. I explained to them in private about how zoo was not as simple, nor as cut, and dried as all that and that folks who are zoos are not bad people and many did not wish to be thus or ask for it but have learned to be comfortable with it just as homosexuals have been given the right to be comfortable with their situation. What do I see the next day after I opened up? It was a big ol hate boner towards all zoos in the way of another public rant even after I had gone into detail about the personal conflicts I and other zoos have had over the issue and how it is something no one really has control over or chooses. This person was being extremely hypocritical and spiteful. They had all sorts of other nasty art they faved and would draw just about any other deviance you could imagine for a price and yet they chose this one subject to harp on. I got angry and left a nasty reply to their ugly rant and sent them and even nastier note. I should have kept it to myself. In response several of their friends got pissed at me, called all kinds of choice names, labeled me an animal fucker, etc.. I tried to make amends by writing notes to folks explaining myself and apologizing and in doing so someone took what I had written and used it against me in a report to admin and I was perma banned. One stupid little thing from ages passed was weaponized and caused much pain and grief for no other reason than to make someone feel they had done something great simply by not understnding and causing great hurt to someone. Needles to say I have zero love or tolerance for anti zoos especially all the hypocrites and closet zoos in the furry community. Folks forget everyone should be allowed to have their freedoms espcially in the USA.
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Who came up with USA having freedom they have the same or less than other countries. No idea what is FA. If you argue against antis when your act is not legal the last think you want to do is get angry. They actually called you animal fucker and not animal rapist, that's not even an insult lol
 
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