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Technically, can't most of us be safe in Canada?

S

SigmaTheZeta

Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Right now, based on a court ruling, it's okay to have a sexual relationship with your animal, just as long as you have not been found to have penetrated your animal.

Well, that is actually doable for most zoophiles. You actually do not have to penetrate your animal in order to have sexual intimacy, so if you are fussy about staying in obedience to the law even in the privacy of your own home, then that is doable. You could still be open as a zoophile without any serious risk of prosecution, just as long as you never admitted to penetrating your animal.

I have never done anything illegal in the privacy of my own home where nobody can see me, I tell you as I take another puff off my THC pen.

Anyhow, do I understand the current status of Canadian law correctly?
 
Well, anything that punishes what people do in privacy must inherently be confusing. It's toxic identity politics. The crusaders are not trying to hunt us down for any particular act, but they are trying to hunt us down because we exist. Some skinhead thugs have been given a golden ticket to call a howling insane vicious witch-hunt a moral crusade, and they are not going to stop until enough people have gotten seriously hurt to create a public alarm in its own right.

For right now, knowing where relatively safe pastures might be could help those of us that are least capable of handling more adverse conditions.
 
Laws do not equal morals. The issue is that people find it morally wrong. Look at slavery in the US, the laws changed to make it illegal but to this day prejudiced exist in some people. The only thing that will "change" anything for people is if the world either 1-becomes morally numb to us or 2-changes their morals. I do not think either are likely to happen. So, for my 2 cents on it all, there are no "safe" places for anyone to be openly zoo regardless of what is legally allowed or not.
 
SamSmith said:
Laws do not equal morals. The issue is that people find it morally wrong. Look at slavery in the US, the laws changed to make it illegal but to this day prejudiced exist in some people. The only thing that will "change" anything for people is if the world either 1-becomes morally numb to us or 2-changes their morals. I do not think either are likely to happen. So, for my 2 cents on it all, there are no "safe" places for anyone to be openly zoo regardless of what is legally allowed or not.
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Exactly - even though NM where I live has no law right now against it there is little security in that. I fully expect a law against it in the upcoming years.
 
Defeatism is equally unrealistic.

As bad as things are right now, they can still get worse, a lot worse, and the most likely way for things to get worse would be for nobody to be left describing us to the world except people that are bent on demonizing us.

As long as there are at least some of us out there that are bonkers courageous enough to step out into the fray and speak up for us, people will at least question whether it's really all that urgent to start some kind of a witch-hunt against us.

If you are one of those that have the head-in-the-sand mentality, I am warning you, things can get a lot worse. It constitutes false security.

Humans are like dogs. If you run, you will be chased.

Crap, I can't believe this discussion is getting dragged also into here.

The apostles of cowardice are going to be the destruction of us, though.
 
There is a difference from running and keeping your mouth shut. Why would I jeopardize my future for something that no one needs to know about? There is no reason what so ever to stand up and say I am zoo. I am not zoo exclusive. I am not 24/7 zoo. Sure for some it might be their way of life and to them if they feel the need, go for it! I do not want to stop anyone for doing anything they feel a deep urge to do. With that said I will caution people and give them different opinions and possible outcomes they might face. Why go into a battle half cocked? View the full picture before doing something that is irreversible.

As far as being chased.... I have yet to see people openly chased. Sure sites get shut down, but so do torrent sites. No one is up in arms about that saying torrenting should be legal. They understand what they are doing is illegal, the tip their hats to their favorite old site and move on to the next one. It is just part of how the world is. At least we have this site for us to enjoy and chat on which is a lot more than most.
 
@SamSmith

Every time the media blasts a story about a woman pimping out her dogs for sex, people are going to get all the more stoked up with rage, and the demonizing voices out there are going to become all the more frantic. Eventually, if nobody was trying to represent us, someone would spark off a truly extreme moral crusade.

Eventually, everyone that even had so much as some furry themed stickers on their Telegram app would get rounded up. Many furries are really closeted zoos, regardless of what many of them say. Police would start randomly investigating animals for signs of "abuse," and someone would go to jail anytime a dog even just had a yeast infection that was not even related to animal sex.

Before long, someone would trace your posts that you have left on here and dox you. You would be attacked randomly in the night. There would be mysterious unexplained break-ins at your house, where your animals were either stolen, set loose, or even intentionally harmed in order to try to incriminate you as a monster.

We need a few advocates out there trying to remind people that the majority of us are just people that occasionally masturbate their pet dogs and that we're not really bent on harming an animal and that the majority of us find animal prostitution rings to be horrifying.
 
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The point is, it's not rational to pretend that you don't need people that are irrational and passionate and determined to do good in spite of the fact that it might not qualify as "smart" by purely selfish standards. You might not want to be a hero, but without one, you're fucked.
 
@SigmatoZeta

You act like people care this much about anything. Hell, the US cannot get todays youth out to vote for president, why do you think they would be motivated to take up arms against anything? This seems like far too much work for todays voters/doers.

Plus, since you brought it up, I see the Furry community being close to the worst for zoos. They are openly walking around and having parades dressed up like animals. No wonder people have an issue with it, have you seen how they act? It makes me feel uncomfortable and I am into it. It is like my mother says "I do not want to see two straight people making out on in a store, why would I want to see two guys or girls doing it?".

People just need to shut up and stop thinking they have some sort of God given right to feel how they do. You like animals, great! Other people think that it is wrong. Got it. Logically the next step would be to... Not tell people you are into that! A+. No one, at least here in the US, is going to come in and black bag you for it. If you go online, be smart about it, if you do it at home, close your curtains. Simple.

I get that people feel they should be free to express who they are and how the feel, and to a certain extend I understand that. At the end of the day though, how is me telling someone who thinks zoo is morally wrong there morals are wrong any different from them telling me my morals are wrong? Who's morals are right? Who's are wrong? Who cares at this point? Like what you like but keep it close to yourself regardless of if you are straight, gay, zoo, furry, AB/DL. Everyone has hatters, everyone has supporters. Find your supporters and be happy you have them.
 
Their more edgelording pornography is more damaging. I only like the old SFW MUCKs. Their porn sites tend to be a shit show.
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this.

As of the end of 2018, there is a bill in Canada which would ban ALL things related to sex with animals in Canada:

Zoo Legal & Law - Canadian Bill C84 Anti-Bestiality Parlimentary Discussion Audio.

Tabled in the House of Commons, December 6, 2018 Charter Statement - Bill C-84: An Act to amend the Criminal Code (bestiality and animal fighting) Definition of bestiality Clause 1 would add a definition of "bestiality" in section 160 of the...
www.zooville.org www.zooville.org

Honestly, in spite of its dangers / crime, Mexico is probably better for zoos than Canada. Like in the U.S., most laws in Mexico are at the state level. Some states in Mexico have banned sex with animals, others have not. The "rule of law" in Mexico is not as strong as it is in the U.S., which is good and bad -- good in that there is a smaller chance that one will get punished for zoo sex, bad in that there is a higher chance that one will become the victim of crime.

There are safe places in Mexico, but there are also dangerous places; one just needs to be knowledgeable about the country.

knotinterested said:
Exactly - even though NM where I live has no law right now against it there is little security in that. I fully expect a law against it in the upcoming years.
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Yes, I am afraid that the remaining places in the U.S. where zoo is legal (NM, WY, WV, HI, DC, Guam, American Samoa, and Northern Mariana Islands) will eventually ban it. HSUS is on a crusade to ban it everywhere in the U.S. Unfortunately, no one is doing anything to stop (or challenge) these new anti-zoo laws that are being made throughout the U.S.
 
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SigmatoZeta said:
Right now, based on a court ruling, it's okay to have a sexual relationship with your animal, just as long as you have not been found to have penetrated your animal.

Well, that is actually doable for most zoophiles. You actually do not have to penetrate your animal in order to have sexual intimacy, so if you are fussy about staying in obedience to the law even in the privacy of your own home, then that is doable. You could still be open as a zoophile without any serious risk of prosecution, just as long as you never admitted to penetrating your animal.

I have never done anything illegal in the privacy of my own home where nobody can see me, I tell you as I take another puff off my THC pen.

Anyhow, do I understand the current status of Canadian law correctly?
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No where is safe there will always be those that persecute us even though we do no harm to no one. I want us zoos to be accepted in the world and hopefully in the future it will happen.
 
Gangsigns69 said:
No where is safe there will always be those that persecute us even though we do no harm to no one. I want us zoos to be accepted in the world and hopefully in the future it will happen.
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Then stay alive and healthy for a long time. We are looking at a multigenerational timeline, based on history.

For now, we can slow it down from getting too much worse. Once we've weathered the current witch-hunt, the laws will fall largely into disuse over time.
 
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I refuse to go to Mexico just to live this life...for fear that I could get shot up by the cartels there.
 
Zoo50 said:
The warmest part of Canada is probably in the Windsor, Ontario area.



Like I said, some parts of Mexico are dangerous, but others are not -- it is a big country. Chicago has more crime than some parts of Mexico.
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Is it country or rural there? I love American culture.. even though it’s cold, I would love living in the New England area for the rich history there. Maine is a dream. Canada just won’t do it for me. I don’t care if beast is legal there. My kink isn’t my life. I grew up patriotic AF and I want my kids to also. One big patriotic family.
 
shrimpsoda said:
Is it country or rural there? I love American culture.. even though it’s cold, I would love living in the New England area for the rich history there. Maine is a dream. Canada just won’t do it for me. I don’t care if beast is legal there. My kink isn’t my life. I grew up patriotic AF and I want my kids to also. One big patriotic family.
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Yes, there are some rural parts of Mexico; much of the northern part of Mexico is desert (similar to the southwestern U.S.)
 
@Zoo50, I have made up my mind that we ought to stand up for the best countries that there are. The USA is one of the best countries in the world, and by that, I am not just talking about straight GINI rankings. We might have slum areas like Mississippi, but that's a part of our cultural diversity. Warts and all, the damn country is worth it.

I think the main thing we need to do is get zoos that are on Twitter to stop feeding anti-zoo botnets. Twitter is really to a large extent a crop failure, as far as social media. If we had any intelligence, we would get off of that travesty, and we would start building up a presence on Telegram and on other social medias that have been more associated with liberation than with demagoguery.

You can actually make publicly accessible Telegram chats, and you can link out to them from websites. I could post the join link to a publicly visible Telegram channel right here, and we could all join in on the same Telegram conversation. They're just not allowed on the forum, right now.

What I think we ought to consider doing is actually create a permanent OFFICIAL zoo chat on Telegram, and establish as a rule, no pornography on the main chat, keep it safe for work, and don't actually incriminate yourself. People that meet there could feel welcome to start up side-chats just for swapping their homemade videos IF THEY WANT TO. The public one just ought to be relatively clean and straight-laced.

You might have noticed that I am a HUGE fan of Telegram. Well, the way I think of it, you go where the revolutions go. Twitter has been used as a tool of destructive Russian propaganda and other unpleasantness, but Telegram has been used to fight against the same dictatorships. Let's follow the revolutions. Let's use the tool that dictators are the most afraid for people to have. I guarantee that if the smartest of us were to get together and start building up a community on there, we could actually start doing something constructive. We could actually start getting our community coordinated.

I say we fight it out right here in the states, and let's try to use this service to get talented experienced zoos involved. Let's use this service to start asking for zoos that have marketing degrees, political science degrees, years of experience at public advocacy, experience writing research grant proposals, anything that might be useful to us, start asking for their consultation and help. Let's get them believing that something can happen.

I've made up my mind, I am not giving up the US.
 
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SigmatoZeta said:
The USA is one of the best countries in the world, and by that, I am not just talking about straight GINI rankings.

I've made up my mind, I am not giving up the US.
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The United States has the world's highest incarceration rate, it has the world's only public sex offender registries (which, by the way, zoos sometimes end up on), and it has a massive debt. Every decade, more and more freedoms are being lost as the country becomes less and less free. The growing number of anti-zoo state laws are an example of that. Also, people in some areas of the U.S. (such as Guam and Puerto Rico) cannot even vote for the President of the United States -- so the U.S. isn't even fully democratic.

You brought up Mississippi as being a "slum" -- it is worth noting that Puerto Rico is a lot poorer. (Puerto Ricans living in Puerto Rico may not be able to vote in presidential elections, but they are U.S. citizens).
 
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I think what SigmatoZeta is saying that The United States could be better. We just need some brave souls to guide our country back into the right course, giving us our freedoms back and away from the horrid nationalist/nativist ideologies.
 
Zoo50 said:
The United States has the world's highest incarceration rate, it has the world's only public sex offender registries (which, by the way, zoos sometimes end up on), and it has a massive debt. Every decade, more and more freedoms are being lost as the country becomes less and less free. The growing number of anti-zoo state laws are an example of that. Also, people in some areas of the U.S. (such as Guam and Puerto Rico) cannot even vote for the President of the United States -- so the U.S. isn't even fully democratic.

You brought up Mississippi as being a "slum" -- it is worth noting that Puerto Rico is a lot poorer. (Puerto Ricans living in Puerto Rico may not be able to vote in presidential elections, but they are U.S. citizens).
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What’s wrong with open sex offender registries? I’d like to know which neighborhoods not to buy a house in so my future kids don’t get diddled by a weirdo. Sex offenders imo should have their own island, where they can diddle and rape eachother if they wish.
 
shrimpsoda said:
What’s wrong with open sex offender registries? I’d like to know which neighborhoods not to buy a house in so my future kids don’t get diddled by a weirdo. Sex offenders imo should have their own island, where they can diddle and rape eachother if they wish.
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The issue is that people can get on sex offender registries for small things (such as public urination), and also, depending on the state, zoos can end up on sex offender registries as well. For example, New Hampshire's new anti-zoo law puts zoos (that get caught) on its sex offender registry.

Other countries like Canada have sex offender registries, but in those other countries, only law enforcement can see the lists, not the general public. Public registries are basically a public shaming tool. And also, public registries mean that those who are on it can be targeted by vigilantes.
 
Zoo50 said:
The issue is that people can get on sex offender registries for small things (such as public urination), and also, depending on the state, zoos can end up on sex offender registries as well. For example, New Hampshire's new anti-zoo law puts zoos (that get caught) on its sex offender registry.

Other countries like Canada have sex offender registries, but in those other countries, only law enforcement can see the lists, not the general public. Public registries are basically a public shaming tool. And also, public registries mean that those who are on it can be targeted by vigilantes.
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Well, websites like Megan’s law not only list a sex offender’s name and address, but also what offenses they are guilty of. Publicly shaming pedophiles and hebephiles is pretty lenient to me, IMO they should get the chair.
 
I hope that those vigilantes are doing their research and only taking out the really nasty and vile offenders. I have no issue with a man/woman who beat/raped another person to be pushed off a cliff.
 
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