Dogs using buttons to communicate

[gsdmixg]

The buttons aren't a requirement; dogs, horses, etc can communicate without them, you just have to learn a shared language.
There have been plenty of horses who have been taught to indicate if they want a blanket put on or taken off for example.

I think the buttons are interesting, but I find it weird that so many people act like the dog can't otherwise communicate equally complex things. I've had a number of dogs who were adept at indicating that they wanted to go out and play with a particular toy, for example.

Well, to quote a previous post of mine:

. . .even if one didn't need the buttons to know what their dog needs/wants/feels, why is it a bad thing to provide an outlet for them to communicate things much more clearly, effectively, and efficiently? Wouldn't that be better for both parties?

Understanding body language and communication is also prerequisite to using the buttons correctly anyways based on what I have seen on the internet. The dogs in the experiments will often use a word or a combination of words to pinpoint specific causes of their emotions.

For example, I'd seen a video (which I doubt I could find now) where a dog displays tense, concerned and slightly fearful body language and repeatedly presses the buttons "outside" and "noise". Without those button presses you would have only known the emotion and not the cause. And inversely, if you use the buttons but can't understand their body, you only get a clue into the situation without knowing how they feel.

Sure, you might have been able to piece it together yourself if you stopped, watched and noticed said dog occasionally doing something such as peeking out the window. But giving them the ability to "verbally" communicate made it a much easier and more clear process.

 

[egoldstein]

For example, I'd seen a video (which I doubt I could find now) where a dog displays tense, concerned and slightly fearful body language and repeatedly presses the buttons "outside" and "noise". Without those button presses you would have only known the emotion and not the cause. And inversely, if you use the buttons but can't understand their body, you only get a clue into the situation without knowing how they feel.

That's the problem with many of those videos; they're not verifiable. Was it due to a random action, was it intentional? How mch was edited out and how many other combinations that didn't have an interesting result were skipped over? There's no way to know.

 

[saddlebum66]

Of course they can communicate with buttons. My critters have been pushing buttons( mine ) since dirt +2. But is it cognitive or dumb luck?....they learn from repeating things....I tend to think its simply dumb luck.

 

[egoldstein]

Of course they can communicate with buttons. My critters have been pushing buttons( mine ) since dirt +2. But is it cognitive or dumb luck?....they learn from repeating things....I tend to think its simply dumb luck.

That non-primates can be taught to use symbols to indicate a desired action is demonstrable, such as how Horses can learn to use symbols to communicate their preferences and various animals can be taught visual match to sample, and other complex tasks, etc. I don't think anyone questions the basics, but it's the claim that they are using a couple of buttons to string together complex ideas that leaves so much to be demonstrated in a repeatable fashion. A lot of what I've seen seems to be a result of recording an animal hitting buttons and editing out all the stuff that's not interesting.

I have no problem believing that a dog can signal "water" + "empty" with buttons as I've known many dogs capable of indicating such without needing buttons.

 

[saddlebum66]

For very limited concepts, maybe...water, food. Basic motivations, but that really isnt cognitive...its more likely habituation when the critter gets it right often enough.

 

[gsdmixg]

That's the problem with many of those videos; they're not verifiable. Was it due to a random action, was it intentional? How mch was edited out and how many other combinations that didn't have an interesting result were skipped over? There's no way to know.

Sure, and that's what the scientific studies, which are increasing in frequency, are for. I mentioned at some point in this thread to someone else the largest study by UC San Diego, which has a few potential biases but overall seems pretty rigorous.

Most of the current supposed evidence behind the buttons as of now is anecdotal, but the sheer number of people who seem to be able to attest to at least some success is certainly compelling enough to make it worthwhile for the scientific world to investigate these claims. And I for one think that's a really great thing, because not only is AAC itself a potential breakthrough in communication, it also opens the door for even more research into related areas of canine cognition.

And to address your other post regarding word combinations, I see very very few people attempting to claim that dogs can use buttons to simulate verbal language to the extent humans use it. However, even being able to conceptualize the idea of stringing together just 2 or 3 words to verbally express an idea is already huge based on current consensus on how capable (or rather incapable) dogs are when it comes to language. That's the whole thing with the button pushing craze; it's not that we're suddenly figuring out dogs can communicate, but rather that they may have some (limited) ability to connect words together and create a combined idea through them. Many of us have already seen that in our own animals, but the fact that scientists are now seeing the potential is what's important.

 

[FloofyNewfie]

I do have to question what percentage of the canines are legitimately learning and understanding what each button they press actually means, and what percentage can be chalked up to the clever hans effect. Like the video I posted on this thread, I'd imagine that she's pressing those buttons due to the clever hans effect.

 

[saddlebum66]

Precisely

 

[Estafantom]

For very limited concepts, maybe...water, food. Basic motivations, but that really isnt cognitive...its more likely habituation when the critter gets it right often enough.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cry_P8kOyK-/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link how about this?

 

[saddlebum66]

I dont do instagram. As far as videos are concerned, you see what the producer wants you to see.

 

[white_tiger]

I actually think that this concept is one of the main things that will help our community become more acceptable in mass society
in discussions about consent, I always refer to videos of owners using buttons to communicate with animals in order to clearly explain to a person that an animal can give consent, it is often more efficient than explaining to non-zoo people the concept of body language consent
i'm also thinking about using a button system myself in the future

 

[forest]

i'm thinking of using them when i get a dog. it would allow for more clear communication

 

[forest]

i know this is just an ingeneral question and have seen it work given the right training for dogs and cats to some funny results also have seen it work with pigs but given the forum does put into mind a button for a want or consent to things and if there were what would be done if say guests are around would that button or set of buttons be taken away to avoid the chance of being found out or it being pressed

my idea is a code word or something that could mean something else. such as "fuck" and the added "me" now fuck me just be used literally, but also as an expression of embarassment and/or self-hatred. i also thing it would be nice for dogs to be able to swear.