An important thread from the old Zooville (Zooville 1.0) that was lost was a thread about why animal abuse / cruelty laws in the United States and elsewhere are hypocritical (they make killing animals legal, such as slaughter, but ban ethical zoo sex.) The thread was called "Animal cruelty and abuse laws... humans are so hypocritical"; it was started by IHO on Sep. 24, 2019. This is what was said in that thread:
I'd like to resume discussion of this topic. Why are animal abuse laws so hypocritical, and why are really bad things (like killing animals in horrendous ways) legally allowed, while OK things (like sex with animals) are not?
By the way, I am a vegetarian and I don't eat meat.
IHO: "I'm sure there have been plenty of rants about this, so I'll keep mine short.
I just read the fore-matter and laws in my state and others via the link hyenasex posted in the "Caught in the act" thread and it just made me angry.
We can raise animals in over-crowded, lowest-possible cost, facilities - up to their knees in mud and shit or in tiny cages where they can hardly turn around - with zero quality of life and it's illegal to take photos/videos for exposure because they don't want to alarm people of the conditions these creatures suffer, only to slaughter them as soon as possible and get them into processing and open space for the next victim. Take children away from their mothers forever the moment they're off nursing to live the same short, miserable life, etc. I've seen processing videos where chickens were hung alive upside-down on a hook through their leg on a conveyor where a machine cuts their throats, and "unacceptable" chick (baby) stock is tossed into a shredder.
Yet have sex with an animal and you are being cruel and abusive, regardless of how awesome of a life you're giving them, full of love and care and fun. You are an abomination that will be prosecuted, humiliated and potentially incarcerated, or sent to therapy to have your obvious psychological and/or anger issues worked out. Where sex is concerned, there is no line between torture and abuse vs. love and companionship, just crime against nature or human morality. It's [considered] just rape and nasty and wrong, with no consideration for the circumstances or relationship.
But that's who we are as a whole, unfortunately. Unless it's extreme, violence and murder in film and television only warrants a "parental guidance" rating, but show a nipple or other nudity and it goes straight to "restricted audience".
Ridiculous. Most human beings are a bunch of simple-minded, hypocritical assholes."
JamesNorfolk: "You’re absolutely right, yet people will always hold themselves above what they don’t or refuse to understand.
I hear this line every time the subject is raised, “you’re human and they’re not.” [also known as speciesism]. Like that’s some some valid reason to prevent people and animals from sharing their love. There are those who abuse their companions, but making the distinction of those who take care of their animals from those who use them for selfish reasons is the first step in squashing the abuse."
Gigelina: "In Europe all the lawmakings have been based on falsified or biased facts
and it can be proven easily, but no one cares
99.9999% of sex with animal is consensual so why are the majority threatened like zoosadists? facts for lawmaking were mostly based on zoosadism stats all across the Europe"
RandomNameGenerated: "Laws in general are not based on logic or facts, but primarily by fear."
qoia248: "It really does suck being painted like we are all monsters, when it couldn't be further from the truth. We're just normal people who share a bond with our animals that goes just a little bit deeper than what most people are willing to share with their pets."
Duster: "Exactly. I don't think a day will ever come where being a zoophile won't be seen as perverse, taboo, and abusive but yet the atrocities of millions of factory farms and some zoos/aquariums are largely ignored every day. The way animals get treated, murdered, and captured is a total fucking crime by anyone's standards, but no, lets focus on arresting people for being consensually intimate with their domestic animal partners, take their partners away, and just euthanize them."
CetaceanLover23: "Couldn’t agree more. The fact that people think that zoos are animal abusers is absolutely bullshit! Well said."
Seabiscuit: "You're preaching to the choir. Why it's even illegal to have sex with large animals like horses and cows is what I fail to understand."
UR20Z: "One word is all that's required to explain the entire "Factory farm = at least OK, if not actually good, sex with an animal = bad" construct. That single word is religion. EVERY SINGLE PROHIBITION ON SEX WITH ANIMALS can be traced back to a tired old collection of various myths and fantasies that's variously called "The Bible", "The Torah", or "The Koran (or substitute your favorite alternate spelling)"
Seabiscuit: "People just think animals are filthy or carry diseases, so having sex with one is nasty or gross. If animals were viewed as clean, then the ick factor would be less of a concern. Truthfully, most people couldn't care less if you bang animals. It's something that isn't thought about all that much."
DoggieDarling: "Chances are the meat you eat all come from factory farms unless you directly get it locally. So unless you decide to go vegan you're also part of the problem factory farming exists so you can't act too high and mighty here.
I don't hate or blame the majority of non animal sex people. Most people are decent folks. However most people are not Zoo, and don't understand. This doesn't make them horrible, vile, stupid or whatever other words you want to toss at them. There comes a point you just need to understand that most humans do not see animals as sexual partners at all, and that's perfectly ok. Most people don't equate animals with humans, but still treat their pets great. That's also fine. And there are a growing number of people actively against how companies treat livestock poorly and want to fix it.
Does it suck that fucking your dog could get you arrested? Of course, but I also look at it like this. People see it as they are saving the animal from abuse out of the fact they really believe intercourse is going to hurt them since they think it's always forced. It's not usually out of pure spite, it's usually because they want the animal to be safe because being non Zoo, they've no idea about sex with animals. That's never once crossed their minds at all because obviously not being their sexuality or kink it's just not going to.
Some people, once actually explained to what we do, are them fine with it and tolerant of it. It's largely lack of education and communication about what this all is. So frankly I feel painting every single not Zoo as a dirty bastard is counterproductive."
IHO: "I certainly agree that not all non-zoo folks are fuckers. However, I do think those who would stand with zoos as a straight person might for LGBT rights would be an extreme minority. Like, really tiny.
I eat very little meat, but I am not a vegetarian I do buy local whenever possible because I do not want to support factory farming. I know there are a lot of people fighting for change in the industry - I've been an animal-rights activist in the past as well. It seems the money almost always wins, which sucks. And some of these farms will move to wherever they can get away with the most in order to cut costs and lower their visibility. Out of sight, out of mind. Their bottom-line supersedes respect for life.
I pulled factory-faring out of the air as just an example of what seems like a huge double-standard in what is and is not acceptable to do with animals. And as you said, most people do want to protect animals from harm - a noble thing - but they can't grasp the concept of a human-animal sexual relationship as anything other than twisted and abusive, and don't care to listen to or consider the zoo side of the argument. Yes, cruelty and abuse of animals is horrible, but we know zoosexuality is not that. In most cases, I would think a domesticated animal is super lucky if they end up with a zoo. They are more likely to be well treated and cared for, spoiled, included as much as possible in their person's day-to-day, etc., etc.,and if they enjoy their person's sexual attention, bonus!"
UR20Z: [comments not copied]
DoggieDarling: "[Response to UR20Z]: Ahh. So you're one of those people who would go absolutely apeshit if someone killed an innocent dog or horse, but keeping animals crammed in tiny dirty cages and force breeding them until they either drop dead or are slaughtered in inhumane ways is perfectly ok all in the name of "hurr humans are omnivorous."
You'd think the Zoo community would want to stop this bullshit but no most only care about sticking their dick in the next dog they see.
It's sick to me you feel absolutely no remorse at all, not even a tiny bit, for killing an animal.
Humans have no reason to eat NEAR AS MUCH MEAT as we currently do. At all. The whole fucking reason we have problems with factory farms is because people are so obsessed with meat we can't breed and murder animals fast enough. You know what most people ate before large scale farms for mass slaughter existed? Plants. Meat was not everyday, it was seen as a luxury to poorer folk. And yet people lived just fine on not having meat everyday.
Also if we are going to use the argument of plants being living things or the "plants feel pain too." Alright true, both are true. However the way plants feel pain is different from how mammals, fish and birds feel it. There also plays a point that humans aren't eating grass and leaves, parts of the plant that are actually important to its well being. What we eat are the fruits and vegetable parts of the flowering plant. These are what holds the seeds, and are created by the plant itself to be eaten by traveling animals so the seeds can spread and sprout new plants from dung. It's the amazing system of the flora reproduction cycle. If we were still just basic hunter/gatherers when we ate the fruits the seeds would eventually pass through us to be deposited somewhere new."
UR20Z: [comments not copied]
Hot4Rotty: "[Response to UR20Z]: Undiluted selfishness. Humans have to kill to eat but that doesnt mean killing animals for food is the only thing we should do in life. That is called an obsession."
IHO: "Hey, I didn't really intend to spark conflict with this thread, only that I thought "crime against nature" and other cruelty and abuse laws related to sexual behavior do not distinguish (nor care to) between real abuse and consensual sexual activity, and are way-out-of-line with other acceptable practices where treatment of animals is concerned. No difference between someone who truly loves their partner and/or is giving them a great life vs. someone who might cause pain and death for their own gratification. I think it's pretty evident by the state of the world that the human race gives fuck-all about nature. As UR20Z suggested, our current state of existence on this planet could be classified as a "crime against nature", and those who would have it differently are struggling against the powers-that-be to make any kind of difference. Perhaps factory farming was a poor example for me to use because, yes, we are omnivores and modest consumption of meat is beneficial to our health, and also yes, food stock should be respected and treated well because they are living beings. Factory farms was the first thing that came to mind when I was venting."
I'd like to resume discussion of this topic. Why are animal abuse laws so hypocritical, and why are really bad things (like killing animals in horrendous ways) legally allowed, while OK things (like sex with animals) are not?
By the way, I am a vegetarian and I don't eat meat.
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